Dawnbreaker cohort attacks count

[YogiDaAngel]

So I'm smashing my head against rule books for last 2 days (maybe I've gone blind from light reflecting from pages so that's why I couldn't find if assault weapon counts as 2nd weapon for purpose of +1 to attack for 2 weapons in charge) but could someone tell me if dawnbreaker cohort with falling-star power spears get additional attack in charge for two weapons ? As far as models are done the grenade discharger is on one hand and in rules spears don't have two hand key word. Also rule for +1 attack on page 184 is as follows "+1 Two weapons: Engaged models with two single-handed weapons (often a Melee weapon and/or Pistol in each hand) get + 1 Attack." 

[Brother_Angelus]

Only pistols and melee weapons count for providing an additional attack. Their spear is a single handed melee weapon, so it qualifies, but the grenade discharger is Assault and therefore doesn't work.

[Xenith]

On 1/7/2023 at 10:35 PM, YogiDaAngel said:

I couldn't find if assault weapon counts as 2nd weapon for purpose of +1 to attack for 2 weapons in charge

 

You were struggling to find the rule because it doesn't exist! Otherwise you have the interpretation of the rules spot on. Dawnbreakers have a single melee weapon, but do not have anything else that would give them an extra attack. 

[YogiDaAngel]

Well that sucks a bit, so are spears better or swords ? Swords get +1 attack but spears give more initiative. But regarding pistols I don't think only pistols and melee weapon count towards +1 attack but one handed weapons count. Pistols are only brought up in rule as example. Is there anywhere in rules that only pistols and melee weapon count ?

[General Zodd]

7 hours ago, YogiDaAngel said:

Well that sucks a bit, so are spears better or swords ? Swords get +1 attack but spears give more initiative. But regarding pistols I don't think only pistols and melee weapon count towards +1 attack but one handed weapons count. Pistols are only brought up in rule as example. Is there anywhere in rules that only pistols and melee weapon count ?

The key differences are all in the weapon stats under the unit entry. The spears give you +1 strength and initiative, the swords give you plus one attack for dual wielding and the option of two different attack styles. If you could get +1 attack for a second weapon with the spears the swords would be a very weak choice, as it is, it’s more of a debate.

 

As for getting the +1 attack, yes, it’s only melee weapons and pistols that count. I’m not sure what you mean by one handed weapons counting? One handed *melee* weapons count, but not ranged weapons other than pistols. It’s not a complex-worded section of the rules, so I’m not sure where you think the debate is to be had?

[Xenith]

11 hours ago, YogiDaAngel said:

Is there anywhere in rules that only pistols and melee weapon count ?

 

It's more that:

1) A model with two melee weapons gets a bonus attack

2) All melee weapons without the "two handed" rule are considered to be "one handed", by virtue of not having the 'two handed' rule, however I don't think that this is explicityly spelled out in the actual rules

3) A pistol has rules that lets it count as an additional melee weapon

4) weapons with the two handed/specialist weapon rule, and some shields, etc explicity state that you can never get the bonus attack for 2 melee weapons while equipped/using it. 

 

11 hours ago, YogiDaAngel said:

so are spears better or swords

 

It depends what you want to do with them. For 2+ sv, I5 character killing, spears so you can strike simultaneously, or if you think you'll get charged. Don't forget that the swords have a Sudden Strike (1) option so you attack at I5 on the charge, but this lacks rending, but gains Shred - so will be good for killing lots of AP3 models like base marine, or if there's something high toughness with a 3+ save out there, maybe an armiger or some other mechanicum thing? The Sunset blade is a good option if for some reason you want to fight 2+ saves with unwieldy weapons - you don't need the I boost, but benefit from additional attacks and rending. It's also semi ok for taking on light vehicles also, where the rend 5+ guarantees a glance on rear armour 10 vehicles. 

Edited January 11, 2023 by Xenith

[YogiDaAngel]

Thank You Xenith and Zodd for clearing it out for me. 

As for spears and sword debate I must try some things what works better for me and my list but regardless thanks for a bit of insight :)

[Spagunk]

I mean, nothing says you can't have a mix of swords/spears in your squad. As much as Paragon Blades are pretty nifty, your sarge gets 3 base attacks for a total of 5 on the charge when using swords. Something to Consider.

 

May be a good deterrent to have SOME spears to act as a shield for your sword guys. I.E. spears hit first then follow up with sword guys. I myself have 5 spears, 4 swords and 1 Paragon Weapon for that reason.

[Cleon]

17 hours ago, Spagunk said:

I mean, nothing says you can't have a mix of swords/spears in your squad. As much as Paragon Blades are pretty nifty, your sarge gets 3 base attacks for a total of 5 on the charge when using swords. Something to Consider.

 

May be a good deterrent to have SOME spears to act as a shield for your sword guys. I.E. spears hit first then follow up with sword guys. I myself have 5 spears, 4 swords and 1 Paragon Weapon for that reason.

I realise it's not a rules question, but can I ask how you handled the swords not being in the kit? hand swaps? Sang guard arms?

[Spagunk]

4 hours ago, Cleon said:

I realise it's not a rules question, but can I ask how you handled the swords not being in the kit? hand swaps? Sang guard arms?

Arm/hand swaps mostly. I used Dawnbreaker arms as a base and then used Crimson Paladin swords (expertly snipped off the terminator arms) for one blade while using swords from Grey Knights Strike Squad for the other. A couple of the arms were indeed sanguinary guard arms where I shaved off the barrel and glued the combi-grenade muzzle in from the FW Terminator Upgrade kit's combi-weapon set.

[Cleon]

Ahh, I'd forgotten about the Grey Knights as a good source of off-hand swords. Picking up Dawnbreakers is a long way down the list, but will bear in mind.

[SkimaskMohawk]

On 1/16/2023 at 1:31 PM, Spagunk said:

I mean, nothing says you can't have a mix of swords/spears in your squad. As much as Paragon Blades are pretty nifty, your sarge gets 3 base attacks for a total of 5 on the charge when using swords. Something to Consider.

 

May be a good deterrent to have SOME spears to act as a shield for your sword guys. I.E. spears hit first then follow up with sword guys. I myself have 5 spears, 4 swords and 1 Paragon Weapon for that reason.

 

Dawnbreakers can't take paragon blades though?

[Spagunk]

1 hour ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

Dawnbreakers can't take paragon blades though?

Slightly pedantic. I meant Perdition blades which I am pretty sure people understood without having to be corrected.

[Xenith]

17 hours ago, Spagunk said:

swords from Grey Knights Strike Squad for the other

 

I'll be kitbashing down dawnbreakers using the SG kit with GK Falchions.