Not Sure What To Do About Custodes (Emperor's Chosen)

[Lucky_Lee]

Man, I'm looking for insight here.

 

I'm so sick and tired of a buddy of mine running Emperor's Chosen and melta bikes against my TSons. I've never beaten it in 9th. I honestly feel he runs it on me just to get easy wins. 

 

I feel almost powerless. It feels like so much has to go my way just to keep it close and at any time he could surge ahead off of a 1cp strat or a 4 man bike squad tanking all of my fire raptor shots. We don't have this "skill gap" in any other match up. 

 

I'm typing frustrated right now. Forgive me. It's just been 4 years of this. 

Edited January 15, 2023 by Lucky_Lee

[WrathOfTheLion]

What all do you take against the custodes? I haven't gotten a game yet of Thousand Sons, as I've just started for Boarding Actions, but an overview of the units taken would be helpful.

 

I'll try to see what all the Custodes stuff does tomorrow, I have a friend that's starting them that I can ask.

Edited January 15, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion

[AfroCampbell]

As a Custodes player, just shoot them off the board. Weight of fire is extremely effective when done right, use your range against him. 

Also point for point you can overwhelm his termies with your termies. You will struggle against captains of a variety, but that is fair enough considering their points cost. 
Play the objectives. 

[Lucky_Lee]

On 1/14/2023 at 10:40 PM, AfroCampbell said:

As a Custodes player, just shoot them off the board. Weight of fire is extremely effective when done right, use your range against him. 

Also point for point you can overwhelm his termies with your termies. You will struggle against captains of a variety, but that is fair enough considering their points cost. 
Play the objectives. 

We were playing with the new Arks of Omen book. My game plan was to shoot him. Not sure why anyone would attempt to fight them in combat with anything other than a daemon prince or daemon engine. 

 

I ran duplicity. 

Ahriman w/disc (Firestorm, Doombolt, Weaver)

Infernal Master (presage, Imps & Maelstrom)

4x5 rubrics w/src (Temporal Surge)

1x10 SoT w/SRC & missiles (Temporal Surge)

2x5 SoT w/SRC & missiles (Temporal Surge)

Thousand Sons Fireraptor (Lascannons & Heavy Bolters)

 

My opponent ran Emperor's Chosen

11 bikes all meltas. 2x3 & 1x4 with a bike captain

2x1 terminators 

The elite dreadnought with spear

1x6 jump packs

2x of the small tanks. 

Theres a bit more I don't remember off the top of my head. But 90% of the army moves 12"+ has 2+/4++ and a 4+++ vs mortal wounds.

 

Their basic troops are better equiped with stronger stats than most of my codex. For 1cp they can shut down almost any charge I make with infantry with those stupid tangle grenades. It's the efficiency combined with protection from mortal wounds and utility strats for EVERYTHING. 

 

I just don't have fun when playing against custodes in general. I hate the entire concept of how they're supposed to play and how they are consistent with every tool they could possibly need. 

 

The thousand sons are the masters of sorcery but somehow with abhor the witch, a shield host that not only gives rerolls to an already incredibly consistent force (FOR HITS AND WOUNDS) but protects it from the only thing my army does well. 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 24, 2023 by Lucky_Lee

[Toldavf]

Surprising, I would have thought that with Unwavering phalanx and some heavy cover absorbing that charge would of been achievable. 

[AfroCampbell]

11 bikes with all Melta is oppressive

[Lucky_Lee]

On 1/15/2023 at 7:03 PM, Toldavf said:

Surprising, I would have thought that with Unwavering phalanx and some heavy cover absorbing that charge would of been achievable. 

You would think. But the consistency of the army with the tool box of strats combined with the 4+++. I just flat don't know what to do. He went through 15 terminators in 2 turns. They just don't miss and with the single reroll to hit and wound on everything it's insane. While I'm usually wounding on 4s or 5s with way waaaaaay less consistency in the to hit roll. 

 

Edited January 24, 2023 by Lucky_Lee

[Xenith]

On 1/15/2023 at 4:40 AM, AfroCampbell said:

As a Custodes player, just shoot them off the board. Weight of fire is extremely effective when done right, use your range against him. 

 

 

'Just' conceals all manner of sins  TS range is largely 24" which is not all that much, and will be a lot less if you actually want to take objectives. Bikes also close that gap fast, not to mention regular custodes shooting back at 24" with D2, which neutralises one of TS's defences. 

 

Unsure what you can do really, Emperor's chosen is flat out broken, it should have never been a 4+++. A 5+++ would make it less oppressive and still very strong (Most ignore mortal wounds traits are only a 6+++?), however having an army rule that neuters 50% of your primary damage output right off the bat hurts. 

Edited March 9, 2023 by Xenith

[dice4thedicegod]

The good news is that even with a 4+++, it should be possible to lean into witchfire.

 

(a marine is about 9 points a wound, a custodian bike or shield guard more like 18… with half blocked, your smites should still kill an equivalent number of points as they would have versus marines).

 

if in doubt, smite!

[Xenith]

That's a really good point and something to temper my annoyance, however there'll always be the situation where you need to kill the last model off an objective, or whatever, and that is just so much harder with the 4++, and as is the way with dice, might not work at all. 

 

Just think, the point investment to kill a single marine with smite is roughly a single smite, if we assume the 5+ to cast goes off. To kill a single custode, we now need 3 smites on increasing difficulty, with the last cast maybe being just better than 50/50, and for them to not roll at all above average on the 4+++ saves. That's probably 350+ points of rubrics and sorcerers to kill a single custodian? Admittedly you get 12 bolters in there also, however on average 12 RF inferno bolters +3 pistols will  kill a single other custodian, or less if in cover. 350pts struggling to to under 100pts of damage to the opposing army, it's just not a great trade.

[Ulfast]

Actully, I find lot of bolters and soulreapers into custodes work really good. They are so used to 2+ armour so when they only save on 4+ they goes down pretty fast and they cant fill the holes in there lines.