World Eaters without a World of Options?

[Prot]

I haven't seen the codex contents yet, in fact I still keep waiting for a firm release date, but I assume someone has seen the contents by now.

 

My number one concern is the lack of options. I was hoping this would be closer to the Daemonkin release where I could take Khorne cannons, etc.  Can anyone confirm the units allowed in the codex? I'm starting to wonder if they get even Helbrutes? Or stuff like Predators? 

 

I really hope considering how tiny the launch is looking that they get to leverage some of the stuff from Heretic Astartes. 

 

I was really on fire to re-start a World Eaters army but after watching the Batrep, and reading rumours, I'm starting to wonder if that codex might just be too small to get a lot of replay value out of it? Any thoughts on this?

 

[m_r_parker]

Judging by the leaks, so far it looks like a very narrow codex with not a lot of options, nor inbuilt opportunities to auto-include units from the regular CSM codex. Think more along the lines of the Death Guard and Thousand Sons.

Sure, if you want you can do multiple detachments from different codices, but you'll lose a lot of benefits. This may be the biggest let down of the release, the lack of options in the codex.

[Trokair]

This was floating around a while ago, and if true would be very simmilar to the TS Codex in terms of CSM units included.

 

Spoiler

 

 

Also if memory serves the Deamon codex has rules for including a set percentage of god specific demons in that god's specific legion. 

 

[INKS]

Haven't seen it, the leaks seem to be fairly accurate though.

The army at first seems limited. I'll grant you that. But I can tell from the list building and conversations over on the red path discord that it's anything but. You've got Angron lists, you've got Invo lists, lists without either of them. BTP lists to get the most out of that system. All rush lists, more cagey lists. They seem 1 dimensional but they actually aren't. Sure the goal is to get into CC and destroy things but how you go about doing so is widely up for debate.

[INKS]

You can attach Khorne for up to 25% of the power level.

[Malakithe]

Pretty much the same as TSons. For the foreseeable future get used to spamming Berzerkers, some HQ, probably Eightbound, and maaaybe a Heavy 

[INKS]

So I've got at least two lists right now that need work.

1 is as has been said, Angron and spam some berserkers

2 has some 8B, E8B, maulerfiends, dread, and CKnights

And then there is the A team. Abaddon (making an assumption here, not confirmed), Angron, and Avacado. 

 

Clearly some of those ideas are better than others but I am not even looking into non Angron lists which will probably be more successful.

[Irate Khornate]

It's a bit of a one dimensional codex. There are multiple list possibilities, but at the end of the day it's going to be some form of Zerg Rush. Forgeworld input is almost required to add in some extra dimensions which is a shame.

[INKS]

I don't think FW is required at all. Are you talking about the Slaughters? I mean they have a place and are good but I don't think they are auto takes.

I think people will be surprised on how not one dimensional they are. Sure you want to get into CC in most cases but the manner in which you get there is going to matter. It's more like a BA army than just RUSH at the enemy. 

 

There are certainly lists with a defensive backfield. 

[Irate Khornate]

18 hours ago, INKS said:

I don't think FW is required at all. Are you talking about the Slaughters? I mean they have a place and are good but I don't think they are auto takes.

I think people will be surprised on how not one dimensional they are. Sure you want to get into CC in most cases but the manner in which you get there is going to matter. It's more like a BA army than just RUSH at the enemy. 

 

There are certainly lists with a defensive backfield. 

No, I'm talking dreadnoughts and the laser destroyer vindicator for some alternative shooting platforms.

 

I hope you are correct, but we won't see until the codex is out for a while. 

[INKS]

Ah, have you tried some war dogs for shooting?

for the dreads, they have the comptemptor in plastic now if that is what you were talking about.

 

I do my best to avoid FW is all. :)

[Castle Wolfenstein]

6 hours ago, INKS said:

Ah, have you tried some war dogs for shooting?

for the dreads, they have the comptemptor in plastic now if that is what you were talking about.

 

I do my best to avoid FW is all. :)

War dogs for shooting sounds fun, buuuuuuut I really don't want to buy another codex just to run 3 war dogs or whatever.

 

I'm disappointed that the normal vindicator isnt included (allegedly) in the WE codex. What about the land raider? Is it finally good enough to use now that it's T9 and has soul shatter lascannons?

[Irate Khornate]

9 minutes ago, Castle Wolfenstein said:

War dogs for shooting sounds fun, buuuuuuut I really don't want to buy another codex just to run 3 war dogs or whatever.

 

I'm disappointed that the normal vindicator isnt included (allegedly) in the WE codex. What about the land raider? Is it finally good enough to use now that it's T9 and has soul shatter lascannons?

^ This. I don't want to have to invest in a whole other army just to shore up the weaknesses in mine. Besides, some people just lost the use of a good portion of their army with the spoiled roster list. With that in mind I again most certainly don't want to go investing in auxiliary units from another codex that I don't know if I can use it in the future or not. 

 

@INKS I was talking about the contemptor, Leviathan, and deredeo. The contemptor and Leviathan are available in plastic now. 

 

[Prot]

Wardogs are (I think) going to be big in Arks, but their cost might just push too hard into the close combat ability of the World Eaters lists I'd like to use.

 

The other shooty aspects though in terms of soulcrusher Preds should be solid. It's too bad about terminators though as I really liked using them as a multifaceted tool.

 

I still like Helbrutes though, that's always an option for me personally. 

[INKS]

The LR has a spot, either with Terminator delivery or E8B delivery. Both that and a gun platform works. 

I've not got one in my list but I can see a place for them and or predators. shooting is there, just have to play around and see what works and what doesn't

 

I can understand not wanting to invest in war dogs. they just happen to be my go to right now.

I am also taking a helbrute to start out with and see how it works out.

 

so for me:

2 Wardog Brigands with havoc launchers

1 Helbrute with MM

3 E8B - double chain fist? should be able to crack open some armor.

couple this with havoc launcher from my rhinos and I've got a little bit of shooting while still raging across the board.

[Prot]

I love Wardogs personally and the way GW is putting them into scoring it's a pretty easy fit.  

 

In my CSM I'm using a LR and Termies, I don't think it would work for me in WE. It's just a bit too expensive right now but if I had to choose, I'd really love to get the Termies in the mix. They'll be slow but hard to shift while providing some decent short ranged shooting for hard targets and chaff alike.

 

I am still a bit on the fence here. When I watched that Batrep they were clearly played to be fluffy which is great. The thing I noted was everything disappeared... I mean for both sides, and I wouldn't say the Grey Knight player was super competent. And the fact Angron came back from the dead so many times... well I can just see that getting nerfed the second everyone owns one. 

 

Hopefully I'm wrong.

[Castle Wolfenstein]

14 minutes ago, Prot said:

And the fact Angron came back from the dead so many times... well I can just see that getting nerfed the second everyone owns one. 

 

Hopefully I'm wrong.

Haha, I had the same thought when I watched it. Does seem like a little much to me. I could live with it if they limited it to once per game.

[INKS]

It comes down to how many BTP can you generate. You are going to lose units, but hopefully your opponent loses more than you do.

 

I've come up with 3 lists so far. 2 with Angron in it and 1 without him and using Lord Invo's warlord trait to move up the board pre game.

I don't know enough about the 8B and E8B just yet but I am putting fair that they will replace Terminators for me. Otherwise Terminators that deep strike could see some play from me. I don't know about them starting on the board because of how slow they will be, but we'll see.

 

The other side of the coin, which I've not put a lot of thought into is Daemons. It's mostly great for either the BT (he really is just that good) or psychic deny from the doggos. Sadly my problem with Daemons is lack of ranged fire power which I think we need.

[INKS]

No Wardogs. I hear you. How about:

Angron /  Lord on Jugg

Rhino / Drop Pod (you can just go Rhinos here)

10 Jackhals

4 units of 5 Berserkers with icon and eviscerators

1 Unit of 9 Berserkers with icon and eviscerator

 

Predator Annihilator - I prefer this one you can run the other

Mauler Fiend with tendrils. - good at ripping open tanks. good carnafex

E8B 2 units of 3. - unknown factor. might be good, might not be good. we'll see.

 

Alternative:

Drop the Predator onwards and add in a KLoS - TONS of firepower

the 9 man becomes and 8man unit - Berserkers

 

Both lists give a solid core. Both give firepower and distraction carnafex's to help out Angron. (he's a huge target) both feed into CC eventually without the rush.

depending on your enemy you can drop the jackhals or the large unit of berserkers in the pod

the other Rhino gets the smaller units moving a little while also being a Rhino, they are more useful than player give them credit for. AND they are worth 2BTP

Note: Eviscerators may or may not be needed in all those units. For now I am taking them but it might be 5 pts each you don't need to spend. 

Note 2: The points might be off - this is from leaked info that has been on the net for a good while now.

 

Edit:

I've moved some units around even more to give me 2 predator annihilators 

 

 

Edited January 24, 2023 by INKS

[Prot]

I definitely would like to bring my old Daemonkin Maulerfields back into action with WE. They seem to really fit here and just add to solid threat saturation and make for some tough shooting decisions for your opponent.  I think Angron will absorb a lot of the fire power that would threaten the Maulers. Or even Helbrutes which I love with my other Chaos armies. For now I’ll be taking two helbrutes and flanking them. 

[INKS]

At one point I dropped the Annihilator and had two Maulerfiends in there. 

so good.

 

There is an argument to be made for Blood Slaughter's they are cheaper and almost as tough / good threat wise. But they are forgeworld and that isn't everyone cup of tea. While I might use them I try to avoid telling other to.

[Burias-Drak'shal]

Think its a shame that there seems to be so few fast attack options as its going to be hard getting across the table

[INKS]

Personal list I am working on. Literally changes everyday because figuring the support out is tricky. I think 30 Berserkers is key. with 10-20 Jackhals. 

However:

 

Khârn - I am not sure this is wise but I am going to play him and give him a shot. It's likely he'll be replaced by either a Lord of Jugger or MOE or both maybe

Lord Invo - We'll be using his movement on the blood slaughter and maulerfiend probably. If not the helbrute (warlord)

 

1-10man Berserker with Icon and 2 Eviscerators

1 -9man Berserker with Icon and 1 Eviscerators - Khârn rides with these guys

4 -5man Berserker with icon

2 Rhino

1 Dreadclaw Drop Pod - fill with either the 10 man unit or the 9man and Khârn

 

Helbrute - MM and Fist with flamer -- scourge is tempting but I think I want the fist.

Blood Slaughter

 

Maulerfiend with tendrils

Predator Annihilator with HB

 

This won't be the final list but it gives me insight on what to build towards. I think the core is solid if not a little over down. I really would like Jackhals but 39 Berserkers is interesting. 29-30 is probably where I end up. 

 

Do not give me room in the backfield. I will land on your face if I have to. This with the Rhinos gives me 2 things. 1 - A steady drip of BTP at 2 each. Hopefully both Rhinos don't get popped in 1 turn. (maybe I only need 1 Rhino) And 2- mobility. movement is key for this army. 

 

Fire support: Might be a little weak. I think 2 war dog brigands might still be the way to go but I am trying out different units here. I am unsure on the predator. I am hoping that with things like a Maulerfiend and a Blood Slaughter that he and the Helbrute just aren't as important. But if they are then they still net me 2 BTP each. So long as they don't get popped on the same turn. which could happen.

 

Exclusions:

8B and E8B. I don't know what to do with these guys.

I've considered 1x6 8B - they come in turn one - they aren't a target for lord invo's movement but do get around and tear it up in CC. But I am already a CC monster with berserkers. So do I need them? Are they just a win more? I don't know.

 

E8B: 1x3 or 2x3. I've considered both. I just don't know if I need them. Do they out perform a blood slaughter and a maulerfiend? maybe? It's hard to say. The other two net me 2 BTP each and are huge distraction carnafex's. The E8B don't net me that. They might be a distraction carnafex though. I see them at Terminators or Terminator+ unit. I kind of want them but just not sure how to use them right now.

 

Let me know other issues you think this army will have. comments and crit always welcomed. I see this as being played cagey. This is NOT a turn 1 rush in and kill everything list. While such lists are out there and work, they are limited in scope and won't be winning you a GT. They work fine in the lower tables but the upper tables are going to be too smart for those tactics. I see WE right now as an A Tier army, but time will tell.

 

Already changed this list a lot but feedback is always welcomed.

 

Edited January 24, 2023 by INKS

[INKS]

9 minutes ago, Burias-Drak'shal said:

Think its a shame that there seems to be so few fast attack options as its going to be hard getting across the table

Nooooo. Getting across the table is the easy part.

Many things move 10 or more. Lord on Jugger and Lord invo both give bonus to movement. BTP gives bonus to movement. shooting at berserkers give bonus to movement. this is a movement army. You'll get there if you want to get there.

 

Add on top Rhinos, Drop Pods, Drills and maybe LRs. Angron himself moves 16". You also have DP with Wings. This is a fast army.

 

EDIT: This is a general's army. Movement is so important. It will separate the good players from the great players. Knowing when, where and why to move your units is going to be key. - And I don't profess to be a great player or general of this army but movement is key.

Edited January 24, 2023 by INKS

[Khornestar]

6 hours ago, Burias-Drak'shal said:

Think its a shame that there seems to be so few fast attack options as its going to be hard getting across the table

I disagree. With the movement buffing aura from the juggerlords and pregame move from Invocatus, it is going to be fairly easy to cross the table. Based on the rules as written (as we have seen them), 2 units of eightbound will get to move 11” before the game begins thanks to Invocatus, then move another 11” turn 1. That is huge.

 

Angron, eightbound, rhinos… there are plenty of units with high movement. Those with core will be 2” faster when near a juggerlord. The ability to heroically intervene 6” will be useful as well.

Edited January 24, 2023 by Khornestar