Arks of Omen list building & tactics

[WatchCaptainNavar]

Inspired by the other discussion about CSM in arks and to avoid derailing the other thread here’s one for your arks list ideas and the tactics you’re planning or testing on the table top.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I need to finish getting them painted up, but I want to give Red Corsairs a whirl and see what happens. Getting close, but might not have enough done to do much before 10E hits.

[WatchCaptainNavar]

Starting out away from my heavy based arks list from the other thread here’s my alternate idea. An msu based infantry heavy list trading for objectives and secondaries.

 

2k

arks detachment (troops compulsory(

iron warriors (ignore cover & reduce AP 1 & 2 by one)

 

preferred seconadries

engage on all fronts

raise banners

psychic ritual?

Rise to glory?

a kill secondary?

 

 

Terminator lord- warlord,  chain fist & combi bolter, MoN, G’holl’ax the decayed, unyielding mettle

 

master of possession- MoT, liber hereticus, gaze of the gods. Pact of flesh, mutated invigoration, skiens of fate

 

troops

 

4 x 5 man legionnaires - MoK, icon, pistols and swords, champion with either power fist or deamon blade, 3 have melta guns & 1 has a flamer

 

2 x 5 man legionnaires - MoT, icon, bolt guns, havoc auto cannon. 

 

2 x 5 man legionnaires- MoT, icon, bolt guns, heavy bolter. 

 

1 x 5 man legionnaires- MoT, icon, plasma gun. 
 

elites

 

hellbrute - MoT, power scourge, multi melta 

 

fast attack

 

venom crawler

 

heavy support

 

2x vindicators - shield, combi melta, havoc launcher.

 

havocs - MoS, 3x las cannon, missile launcher.

 

transports

 

2x rhino - combi melta, combi bolter

 

The plan

 

My thought process here is to have enough marines to trade for objectives while playing into iron warriors ignoring cover and the bucket of dice approach to killing enemies.

 

The 4 MoK legionaries squads will be in the rhinos start on the edge of the deployment zone and move and advance to hopefully make it 3 inches into the opponents table quarters to max engage on turn one. From turn 2 they’ll disembark and start contesting midfield objectives.

 

The 5 MoT legionnaires shooting squads are using the icon for the extra AP on the bolters and especially the heavy weapons. They will walk up the board with the characters with squads splitting off to claim objectives and raise banners. The mark will also allow them to ignore the first damaging shot of the round. The champions will have whatever close combat weapons I have left in my collection.

 

The hellbrute will also walk up the board to support the infantry and can benefit from the MoT psychic power for a 4+ invulnerable save.

 

The venom crawler is a fast threat and an alternate way to score early engage if a rhino has a low advance roll.

 

The 2 vindicators will be anti tank.

 

The havocs are extra anti tank and will sit on the home objective the mark enable the auto 6 strat and the missile launcher the anti air strat.

 

The terminator lord walks up the board with the infantry as a reroll bubble and a melee threat with the mark and trait giving him T5 -1 to wound on equal or double strength weapons, also has the nurgle transhuman strat. While the nurgle deamon weapon auto wounds on hits and failed saves can’t be mitigated.

 

The master of possession will also walk up the board, heal wounded squads, try to cast the invun on the dread and either make himself strength 5 so he hits at strength 8 in combat or make the lord T6. I gave him the warlord trait mainly for the 4+ invun. He is also potentially a source for psychic ritual and MoT has a strat to cast the action and a normal power.

 

Over all its 45 legionnaires, 5 havocs, 2 characters and 6 vehicles 

 

Please post your own lists or tactics ideas and see what our various lords of chaos can come up with to ensure the ascendancy of CSM in the arks of omen.

 

 

 

 

 

[INKS]

Figured I would post this here as well. Since this is a more fitting place.

 

I'l throw an IW list up that did well. Votann just spanked them but otherwise it did well for this weekend. 

Master of Possession [6 PL, 105pts, -1CP]: 2. Daemonsmith, Aspiring Lord, Chaos Undivided, Cursed Earth, Pact of Flesh

 

Sorcerer [6 PL, 110pts, -1CP]: Eye of Tzeentch, Mark of Tzeentch, Prescience, Stratagem: Relic, Warptime

 

Warpsmith [5 PL, 85pts]: Chaos Undivided, Thunder hammer, Warlord

 

Cultists Mob [2 PL, 50pts]
. 8x Chaos Cultist w/ cultist firearm: 8x Cultist firearm, 8x Frag & Krak grenades
. Chaos Cultist w/ flamer
. Cultist Champion: Cultist firearm

 

Legionaries [13 PL, 177pts]: Chaos Icon, Mark of Khorne
. Aspiring Champion: Daemon blade, Power fist
. 6x Marine w/ astartes chainsword: 6x Astartes chainsword, 6x Bolt pistol, 6x Frag & Krak grenades
. Marine w/ heavy chainaxe
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Reaper chaincannon
 

 

Chaos Leviathan Dreadnought [13 PL, 220pts, -1CP]: 2x Grav-flux bombard
. Two twin volkite calivers

 

Venomcrawler [6 PL, 105pts]

Venomcrawler [6 PL, 105pts]

Venomcrawler [6 PL, 105pts]
 

Chaos Land Raider [14 PL, 265pts]: Combi-flamer, Havoc launcher

 

Chaos Vindicator [7 PL, 130pts]: Combi-melta, Havoc launcher, Vindicator siege shield

 

Obliterators [15 PL, 270pts]
. 3x Obliterator: 3x Crushing fists, 3x Fleshmetal guns

Obliterators [15 PL, 270pts]
. 3x Obliterator: 3x Crushing fists, 3x Fleshmetal guns

 

 

 Thoughts on 6 Oblits- I deployed all of them on the table every game. First squad would advance and use the strat to fire; other squad got a Warptime from the sorcerer. Deploying them on the line meant I could have them both fire turn 1, which was nice. 

 

Khorne legionaries made for an excellent obsec trading unit

 

Venomcrawlers- love em, but they just kindof existed to be targets against Votann, even against DG they were more useful (edited)

[strawberry fist]

This is what I plan on running, I’ve not had a chance to test it in Arks yet though.
 

secondaries

- despoil dominions/ banners

- warp ritual

- engage

 

Legion: Black Legion - 2,000pts

 

HQ

Abaddon the Despoiler [-1CP]: 

Stratagem: Warlord Trait (3. Merciless Overseer, 5. Eternal Vendetta, 6. Paragon of Hatred)

 

Master of Possession [-1CP]: 

Mark of Slaanesh, 

Stratagem: Relic- Liber Hereticus

(Pact of Flesh, Mutated Invigoration)

 

Sorcerer in Terminator Armour [-1CP]: 

Chaos Familiar, Combi-melta, Force sword, Gifts of Chaos, Mark of Tzeentch, Veilbreaker Plate (Warptime, Death Hex)

 

Troops

Legionaries: 

Chaos Icon, Mark of Tzeentch

. Aspiring Champion: Boltgun, Power fist

. 3x Marine w/ boltgun: 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Boltgun, 3x Frag & Krak grenades

. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Reaper chaincannon

 

Legionaries: 

Chaos Icon, Mark of Tzeentch

. Aspiring Champion: Boltgun, Power fist

. Marine w/ balefire tome: Balefire tome, (Diabolic Strength)

. 2x Marine w/ boltgun: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Boltgun, 2x Frag & Krak grenades

. Marine w/ special weapon: Plasma gun

 

Legionaries: 

Chaos Icon, Mark of Khorne

. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Power fist

. 3x Marine w/ astartes chainsword + bolt pistol

. Marine w/ heavy chainaxe

 

Elites

Chaos Terminator Squad [-1CP]: 

Mark of Slaanesh

. Chaos Terminator: Combi-melta, Power fist

. Chaos Terminator: Combi-melta, Power fist

. Chaos Terminator: Combi-melta, Power fist

. Chaos Terminator: Combi-bolter, Power fist

. Chaos Terminator: Combi-bolter, Power fist

. Chaos Terminator: Chainfist, Combi-bolter

. Chaos Terminator: Chainfist, Combi-bolter

. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter

. Chaos Terminator: Accursed weapon, Combi-bolter

. Terminator Champion: Black Rune of Damnation, Combi-melta, Power fist, Trophies of the Long War

 

Possessed:

5x Possessed

 

Fast Attack

Chaos Bikers: 

Mark of Tzeentch

3x Chaos Biker w/ astartes chainsword 

 

Heavy Support

Chaos Predator Annihilator: 

Combi-bolter, Havoc launcher, Two Soulshatter lascannons: 2x Lascannon

 

Chaos Predator Annihilator: 

Combi-bolter, Havoc launcher, Two Soulshatter lascannons: 2x Lascannon

 

Dedicated Transport

Chaos Rhino:

Combi-bolter, Havoc launcher

[WatchCaptainNavar]

So how are we all planning to maintain a board presence into the later turns?

 

under nephelim I could rely on the black rune terminators when buffed to drop one or two per turn and have the master pick one back up. This gave me the centre of the board as I new I could rely on them as a blocking force / tempting target especially with ABADDON joining them. Now in arks my main concern is that the extra cost means they take away from the rest of the force and they are now more vulnerable to forces such as iron hands sitting in devestator doctrine hosing them down with various onslaught Gatling cannons.

 

for tanks and deamon engines I’m working on the assumption they’ll get one good turn to earn there points back due to the modern mix of hammerhead / Vanquisher equivalents with there high ap, ignore invuns and mortal wounds, along with cheaper marine war gear meaning they’re likely to run into a tactical squads with multi meltas. 
 

So that’s where my legionnaire wave idea came from having enough infantry to score, just enough fire power to grind down down an opponents operational effectiveness while being able to take mass casualties.

 

 

 

[Khornestar]

13 hours ago, INKS said:

Legionaries [13 PL, 177pts]: Chaos Icon, Mark of Khorne
. Aspiring Champion: Daemon blade, Power fist
. 6x Marine w/ astartes chainsword: 6x Astartes chainsword, 6x Bolt pistol, 6x Frag & Krak grenades
. Marine w/ heavy chainaxe
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Reaper chaincannon

 

Until reading your list I did not realize the Aspiring Champion could take both a daemon blade and a power fist! 

 

THAT IS AWESOME! *drool* that is such a dream loadout, and makes him so versatile.

[WatchCaptainNavar]

I’ve got a game lined up for the weekend and I’m going to take the infantry heavy list to see what happens when you throw MSU legionnaires at a problem, I’ve continued to tinker with the list and have some thoughts I’d like to run past the group.

 

1, Mark of Nurgle on the shooting squads? Tzeentch gives ignore first damage per round and extra AP but nurgle is ranged attacks autowound on a 6 and -1 to wound on enemy attacks that are strength 4 or 8+ permanently. Im thinking nurgle may be more useful in general as it’s a permanent buff against common weapon strengths and auto wounding works well in other factions.

 

2, The master of possession becomes a buffing character, swap the warlord trait for merciless overseer so that legionaries within 6” count as stationary for merciless volleys and heavy weapons. Swap the relic for eye of Tzeentch for +1 to cast and natural 9+ can’t be denied. Very useful for psychic actions and going into psychic heavy armies.

 

3, drop the missile launcher from the havocs for another las cannon as when I looked at the anti air strat it’s aircraft not fly, so much more situational. The missile launcher will go to the plasma legionaries instead to benefit from MoN.

 

4, I only just found out the terminator lord can also use the chosen strat by the keywords (obvious in hindsight) but that will allow the nurgle deamon weapon chain fist to hit on 2s again.

 

5, I’m tempted to drop a rhino for a warpsmith and give them the techno venomous mech and rites as it’s a lot of mortal wounds if he walks up the board to get into melee and could support the vehicles.

 

thoughts and feedback would be appreciated 

Edited January 24, 2023 by WatchCaptainNavar

[Prot]

3 hours ago, WatchCaptainNavar said:

I’ve got a game lined up for the weekend and I’m going to take the infantry heavy list to see what happens when you throw MSU legionnaires at a problem, I’ve continued to tinker with the list and have some thoughts I’d like to run past the group.

 

1, Mark of Nurgle on the shooting squads? Tzeentch gives ignore first damage per round and extra AP but nurgle is ranged attacks autowound on a 6 and -1 to wound on enemy attacks that are strength 4 or 8+ permanently. Im thinking nurgle may be more useful in general as it’s a permanent buff against common weapon strengths and auto wounding works well in other factions.

 

2, The master of possession becomes a buffing character, swap the warlord trait for merciless overseer so that legionaries within 6” count as stationary for merciless volleys and heavy weapons. Swap the relic for eye of Tzeentch for +1 to cast and natural 9+ can’t be denied. Very useful for psychic actions and going into psychic heavy armies.

 

3, drop the missile launcher from the havocs for another las cannon as when I looked at the anti air strat it’s aircraft not fly, so much more situational. The missile launcher will go to the plasma legionaries instead to benefit from MoN.

 

4, I only just found out the terminator lord can also use the chosen strat by the keywords (obvious in hindsight) but that will allow the nurgle deamon weapon chain fist to hit on 2s again.

 

5, I’m tempted to drop a rhino for a warpsmith and give them the techno venomous mech and rites as it’s a lot of mortal wounds if he walks up the board to get into melee and could support the vehicles.

 

thoughts and feedback would be appreciated 

 

I love that in an era where people are happy they don't have to take troop slots anymore you've decided to take... 9. :)

 

Honestly it looks like a fun list, just make sure to get ALL the freebies in there so you don't waste any resources. All of mine have the heavy chain axe/daemon blade + Special.

 

The thing I don't understand is your aggressive infantry are obviously going to be the Legionaries so why not give them more damage abilities? And they all don't have to be the same mark. For example I keep one as Khorne, just for the deny strat.

 

The MoT is cool for shooting units, but really I like MoN quite a bit, and sometimes it's just to cast -1 to hit on them. Khorne is good too though, especially with the free icon. 

Again, I think it looks like a fun list that could be really capable. I'd love to hear how it works out.

[WatchCaptainNavar]

For the freebies im going to have to find all my infantry out and check what weapons and sergeants I’ve got. Unfortunately my iron warriors are all mk3 and mk4 plastics so I’ve got no heavy chain axes or the chain cannons currently. 
but hopefully no squad will be without a heavy or special weapon and I think I’ve got enough powerfists and deamon swords for sergeants.

the MoK has just been my default for chain sword legionaries as with the icon they’re strength 5 and ap -2, along with the autowound on 6s to hit strat. It worked well under AoC and I’m assuming that it’ll be even better against marine equivalents in. I hadn’t considered the others MoS would be good for one of each mark in the rhino and the fights first and +1 to hit would be useful in a mass combat to prevent intervention, I’ll have to have a look and see if I can free up 10pts to switch two MoK to MoS.

 

For going infantry heavy I’m a bit limited as all I have to hand currently is marines, terminators, hell brutes and lots of deamon engines and tanks. My thinking is our terminators are now expensive enough to cripple my old lists when taken, But in my local meta there’s a lot of players who can kill multiple tanks per turn so I’ll give the infantry horde a run out. My iron warriors are going to sit in my fun army niche again and when I have to play competitive the iron hands will come out again.

[Malakithe]

On 1/22/2023 at 4:34 PM, WatchCaptainNavar said:

Starting out away from my heavy based arks list from the other thread here’s my alternate idea. An msu based infantry heavy list trading for objectives and secondaries.

 

2k

arks detachment (troops compulsory(

iron warriors (ignore cover & reduce AP 1 & 2 by one)

 

preferred seconadries

engage on all fronts

raise banners

psychic ritual?

Rise to glory?

a kill secondary?

 

 

Terminator lord- warlord,  chain fist & combi bolter, MoN, G’holl’ax the decayed, unyielding mettle

 

master of possession- MoT, liber hereticus, gaze of the gods. Pact of flesh, mutated invigoration, skiens of fate

 

troops

 

4 x 5 man legionnaires - MoK, icon, pistols and swords, champion with either power fist or deamon blade, 3 have melta guns & 1 has a flamer

 

2 x 5 man legionnaires - MoT, icon, bolt guns, havoc auto cannon. 

 

2 x 5 man legionnaires- MoT, icon, bolt guns, heavy bolter. 

 

1 x 5 man legionnaires- MoT, icon, plasma gun. 
 

elites

 

hellbrute - MoT, power scourge, multi melta 

 

fast attack

 

venom crawler

 

heavy support

 

2x vindicators - shield, combi melta, havoc launcher.

 

havocs - MoS, 3x las cannon, missile launcher.

 

transports

 

2x rhino - combi melta, combi bolter

 

The plan

 

My thought process here is to have enough marines to trade for objectives while playing into iron warriors ignoring cover and the bucket of dice approach to killing enemies.

 

The 4 MoK legionaries squads will be in the rhinos start on the edge of the deployment zone and move and advance to hopefully make it 3 inches into the opponents table quarters to max engage on turn one. From turn 2 they’ll disembark and start contesting midfield objectives.

 

The 5 MoT legionnaires shooting squads are using the icon for the extra AP on the bolters and especially the heavy weapons. They will walk up the board with the characters with squads splitting off to claim objectives and raise banners. The mark will also allow them to ignore the first damaging shot of the round. The champions will have whatever close combat weapons I have left in my collection.

 

The hellbrute will also walk up the board to support the infantry and can benefit from the MoT psychic power for a 4+ invulnerable save.

 

The venom crawler is a fast threat and an alternate way to score early engage if a rhino has a low advance roll.

 

The 2 vindicators will be anti tank.

 

The havocs are extra anti tank and will sit on the home objective the mark enable the auto 6 strat and the missile launcher the anti air strat.

 

The terminator lord walks up the board with the infantry as a reroll bubble and a melee threat with the mark and trait giving him T5 -1 to wound on equal or double strength weapons, also has the nurgle transhuman strat. While the nurgle deamon weapon auto wounds on hits and failed saves can’t be mitigated.

 

The master of possession will also walk up the board, heal wounded squads, try to cast the invun on the dread and either make himself strength 5 so he hits at strength 8 in combat or make the lord T6. I gave him the warlord trait mainly for the 4+ invun. He is also potentially a source for psychic ritual and MoT has a strat to cast the action and a normal power.

 

Over all its 45 legionnaires, 5 havocs, 2 characters and 6 vehicles 

 

Please post your own lists or tactics ideas and see what our various lords of chaos can come up with to ensure the ascendancy of CSM in the arks of omen.

 

 

 

 

 

Im planning a heavy infantry list as well with similar thoughts about the shooty guys getting MoT. Im also going CoB and tossing in a 10x Possessed

[INKS]

A little OT but what do we think about the new DA / Chaos box!? New way for us to get Oblits and Crawlers. Plus Vashtorr is likely going in my IW army.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I play DA and Chaos, so extra cultists, oblits and a venomcrawler is fine, and I have use for all the stuff on the DA side. As much as some vocal people (not DA players) may say otherwise, I think the DW terminators are welcome for most DA players and would make it easier to split.

Edited January 29, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion

[WatchCaptainNavar]

So after a weekend of gaming I tried my legionarie horde and then an alternate where I dropped down to 6 squads to add in a leviathan, havocs, 2 vindicators and a forgefiend.

 

Tldr- except for a narrow victory against deamons I got kicked from pillar to post by votan, ynari and iron hands. the army struggled with being slow and being unable to do damage.

 

the long version

 

The terminator lord was a waste of points relic and warlord trait, he never got into combat as he walked up the board to give rerolls to my central block of infantry.

 

mark of nurgle- in msu shooty legionaries squads there isn’t enough shots to make fishing for 6s worthwhile, also bolt guns remain terrible. although the toughness buff was handy against strength 4 they either died to quantity strength 4, auto wound on hits and the ynari just mortal wounded them off the board. I’d have been better saving the points to add something to the list.

 

mark of khorne- as ever I was impressed by pistol and sword legionnaires when they got into combat they did the business. I could do with some alternate sergeants so I can have deamon blades instead of powerfists as I just kept missing at -1 to hit. They also missed there rhino to save them from early game shooting and in turn 2 combat they can’t get wanton slaughter for exploding melee.

 

master of possession - old reliable, no complaints really. However I was a bit miffed that both deamons and eldar have psykers that never perils so avoiding his extra mortal wound ability and it would negate the other half of the black rune. Not fun when the ynari psychic phase is pumping mortal wounds out like it’s going out of fashion. 
 

vindicators - I still like them but they’re let down by d6 damage it’s just so swingy some times you drop a tank or monster in a turn other times you roll snake eyes for damage.

 

overall I’m really disheartened with how it went, it was a chaos vs imperial friendly event and chaos (iron warriors, black legion, deamons, deathguard and thousand sons) lost by a mile, with only the chaos demons player scoring one narrow victory in a game while the rest of us lost every game against guard, iron hands, votaan and eldar.

 

This is the most games I’ve played in a short space of time since before the pandemic and what stood out to me is how weak my shooting was except for the forgefiend the best I had was damage 2 or d6 and I was having no luck with demolisher cannons while also I kept running into units with -1 damage abilities which isn’t great for the heavy bolters and auto cannons.

While when taking shots it stung when you’ve got flat 3 or d3+3 hitting my units. Ap also turned out to be relatively useless, demons don’t care about ap anyway but there was enough units with invuns in other armies that anything beyond AP 1 or 2 was wasted.

My dislike for mortal wounds has turned to near hatred after seeing the output some armies get from the psychic phase, strats or unit abilities it’s just no fun to stand there as your opponent passes a psychic test (even better when they perils on a 12 but they’re immune to perils, but here’s your supper smite) and then your just picking up models as they roll dice with the only defence being the strat for a feel no pain against them in a cp starved game.

 

for secondaries I tried long war, ritual, the kill tanks and monsters one, data, engage and banners.

engage was pointless as the army was to slow and the 5 man squads died when focused on.

the others were okay I did like the long war for killing on and securing objectives when fighting over the middle and trading units. For data free reserves meant a couple of squads of legionaries could do that relatively easily.

 

I don’t class myself as a competitive player and really prefer tempest to nephelim / arks, but i don’t know where my iron warriors go from here. I’m not going to spend a lot on them to chase the data slate as I agree with the thought that this is the end of an edition blow out.
When my possessed are done I’ll add them in and I’m thinking the black rune max size buffed terminator squad is needed despite its expense. But as much as I rack my brain on how to make my collection into a workable arks army I keep coming back to the chat I had with an iron hands player after ynari had smashed me in 4 turns and he’d shot another more traditional iron warriors army off the board in 3 turns.

He was running a melta heavy list with lots of eradicators, sternguard, invictors, land speeders, a couple of combi melta multi melta tactical squads for scoring, a tech marine and a lieutenant along with his new kratos.
he explained his game plan, the invictors and speeders force the opponent not to castle up and then he shoots everything dead with multi meltas and heavy melta rifles, then he scores whatever else he needs. Apparently he maxed out codex warfare in turn 2 of one of his games. He suggested that chaos unfortunately have no answer to the marine points drop and even if they get some nerfs to iron hands our chosen and legionaries are night and day in points cost compared to tactical marines and sternguard and that’s before you get to other armies that can hoover up power armoured units. I found it telling that although he has 10 hammer and shield terminators he wasn’t running them as he had better options and they’re still significantly cheaper than chaos terminators.

All he could suggest is put the iron warriors back on the shelf for a while and use my own iron hands as if you can’t beat them join them, until GW do another balance patch and the game changes again.

Sorry if the post comes across as a bit of a downer, but I like my iron warriors they’re the army I got back into 40k with in 8th and I felt like I was just outgunned by better units in the opposing armies. At least I get to roleplay the bitter iron warrior I suppose.

 

 

[INKS]

I am thinking of adding in a forgefiend to my lists. he did well for you?

 

Edit: wanted to add that I echo your pain. In building numerous IW lists I come to the same conclusion. I am dead before I even get to the table. Our stuff is just too expensive compared to loyalist marines. Especially after the points drop. We are outnumbered and out gunned. 

Edited January 30, 2023 by INKS

[WatchCaptainNavar]

The forgefiend worked well primarily for the flat 3 damage, normally I try to buff him with a warpsmith but he was busy babysitting the leviathan but he did well on his own.

 

With 3 ectoplasmas the flat damage 3 was great, but the forgefiend benefits greatly from the iron warriors strats for double the unit size for blast and the auto wound vehicles on 6s to hit as it’s only strength 7.

The worst death he had was being mortal wounded to death by ynari from 8 wounds to dead in a single psychic phase.

 

the other problem as you said is he’s pricey, 155 for triple plasma or 140 for 2 plasmas and jaws which doesn’t compare well to say a gladiator reaper or an eradicator squad. I’ve got the auto cannons for it well but they’re just to expensive in points.

 

 

 

[Relic]

 

Ominous tidings WatchCaptainNavar as so far i've ran a similar post Arks Iron Warriors army based around Legionaries and some Rhinos. Same idea, get ahead on primary and do enough secondary work to hopefully win before a tabling. Went well so far, but admittedly have not played much since Arks dropped and also not vs super optimised Marines or the like. 

 

I have skewed more into the build, which tends to be my play-style and gone for CSM Lord with the WL to let units count as standing still, 80 Legionaires, in 5 rhinos with all the free equipment bar plasma pistols as I am not re-modeling anything just for the next few months of play! 

 

The list is in spoilers below and definitely is not optimised, as I expect chaos players should still be leaning into super killy HQ choices and the MoP/DA. I just like a good all in on a list design. 

 

For what it is worth, I do think some form of Legionaires, Plague Marines or Noise Marine play is likely the route CSM armies will go. 

 

Spoiler

Faction: Chaos Space Marines – Iron Warriors

Army Points: 2,000pts / 125 PL

Reinforcement Points: 0

Number of Units/ Kill Points: 18

Pre-Game Stratagems: Warlord Trait (-1CP), Relic (-1CP), 2x Trophies of the Long War (-2 CP)

Starting Command Points: 2

Warlord & Trait: Chaos Lord – Implacable Taskmaster

Army Trait: Let the Galaxy Burn and Iron Within, Iron Without

Secondary Objective Information:

No Prisoners: 160 Wounds

Bring it Down: 10

Assassination: 3

Abhor the Witch: 0

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HQ – Chaos Lord: Warlord (Implacable Taskmaster), Power Sword, Power Fist & (Relic: Insidium)

 

TR – 10 Legionaries: Mark of Slaanesh, Icon, 1x Heavy Chainaxe, 1x Reaper Chaincannon, 1x Heavy Bolter, Aspiring Champion W/ Boltgun & Power Fist 

 

TR – 10 Legionaries: Mark of Slaanesh, Icon, 1x Heavy Chainaxe, 1x Reaper Chaincannon, 1x Heavy Bolter, Aspiring Champion W/ Boltgun & Power Fist 

 

TR – 10 Legionaries: Mark of Tzeentch, Icon, 1x Heavy Chainaxe, 1x Reaper Chaincannon, 1x Heavy Bolter, Aspiring Champion W/ Bolt Pistol, Daemon Blade & (Trophies of the Long War: The Warp's Malice) 

 

TR – 10 Legionaries: Mark of Khrone, Icon, 6x Astartes Chainswords, 1x Heavy Chainaxe, 1x Reaper Chaincannon, 1x Heavy Bolter, Aspiring Champion W/ Bolt Pistol, Daemon Blade & (Trophies of the Long War: The Black Rune of Damnation) 

 

TR – 5 Legionaries: Icon, 1x Heavy Chainaxe, 1x Reaper Chaincannon, Aspiring Champion W/ Bolt Pistol & Power Fist 

 

TR – 5 Legionaries: Icon, 1x Heavy Chainaxe, 1x Reaper Chaincannon, Aspiring Champion W/ Bolt Pistol & Power Fist 

 

TR – 5 Legionaries: Icon, 1x Heavy Chainaxe, 1x Reaper Chaincannon, Aspiring Champion W/ Bolt Pistol & Power Fist 

 

TR – 5 Legionaries: Icon, 1x Heavy Chainaxe, 1x Reaper Chaincannon, Aspiring Champion W/ Bolt Pistol & Power Fist 

 

TR – 5 Legionaries: Icon, 1x Heavy Chainaxe, 1x Meltagun, Aspiring Champion W/ Bolt Pistol & Daemon Blade

 

TR – 5 Legionaries: Icon, 1x Heavy Chainaxe, 1x Meltagun, Aspiring Champion W/ Bolt Pistol & Daemon Blade 

 

TR – 5 Legionaries: Icon, 1x Heavy Chainaxe, 1x Meltagun, Aspiring Champion W/ Bolt Pistol & Daemon Blade 

 

TR – 5 Legionaries: Icon, 1x Heavy Chainaxe, 1x Meltagun, Aspiring Champion W/ Bolt Pistol & Daemon Blade 

 

DT - Chaos Rhino: Havoc Launcher, Combi-Flamer 

 

DT - Chaos Rhino: Havoc Launcher, Combi-Flamer 

 

DT - Chaos Rhino: Havoc Launcher, Combi-Melta 

 

DT - Chaos Rhino: Havoc Launcher, Combi-Melta 

 

DT - Chaos Rhino: Havoc Launcher, Combi-Melta 

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Relic

[INKS]

@WatchCaptainNavargreat insights, thanks

 

 

[Prot]

It's a tough call. I love my IW as well, but what made mine work in competitive scenarios was the Termies. Not that they were amazing, but that they let me bully some part of the map while the shooting did its work.

 

Now I think the Termie blob is dead. It was never amazing because it always had bad match ups, but now it's dead to me. I wouldn't take more than 5 which is not going to do the job.

 

The brick used to buy me time, earn some secondaries, and with temp Obsec they might rob an objective or two.

 

I've shifted into a more aggressive Black Legion build. I'm just using Possessed as the Termies are just way too over priced without AoC. IW suffer board control using traditional units. I don't know how using Legionaires in mass will do though. All I know is I had Votann tear mine apart with ease. Same with Genestealer Cult (At least with them if I got the charge I could do damage).

 

 

[WatchCaptainNavar]

Thanks for the thoughts and ideas guys.

 

For my iron warriors I’m model limited as I built them out of mk3 marines prior to the new chaos kits so I don’t have any chain axes or chain cannons and I’m a bit torn on adding them as I don’t think the new chaos match my mk3s well. I am tempted though to use the mk6 kit and weapon upgrades to build some more melee marines and more havocs.

my other good / bad call is I currently only have 5 half built possessed that are in need of finishing, but my last big purchase was the reboxed horus heresy terminators as my flgs had a load of them preordered by people who then cancelled so by November they were on the clearance shelf which means I got new terminators for all my marines, great for my iron hands not so much for my iron warriors as they were done before the balance patch.

 

For the rhino rush, under nephelim 2 rhinos were a staple of my battalions one with either a 9 or 10 man squad of khorne legionaries with a master of executions and the other with 5 khorne legionaries and 5 chosen. They were great for the distract, destroy and score while the terminators marched up the middle.

But under arks I think multiple rhino’s are a trap into a lot of lists as if you deploy conservatively expecting to go second it’ll be hard to hide them all and any that can be seen are going to get hit hard. There’s so much free high strength and damage out there at the moment I can see rhinos getting destroyed or bracketed before they can serve there purpose and I wouldn’t be surprised if a semi competitive guard or marines list could kill 5 rhinos in a turn is they have average dice rolls.

[BrainFireBob]

Maybe we're looking at this the wrong way. What does Chaos *have*? 

 

There has obviously been a corporate directive to keep CSM at or below SM. Doctrines no longer rotate, for instance. 

 

Any stupid ideas? Dreadclaw, chaincannon havocs, and three MOEs? Actually fielding Helbrutes with the MoT for 120pts? 

[Karhedron]

If we can't go tanky, maybe go fast instead. Max out on Fast attack slots and have a Winged DP leading a couple of squads of Warp Talons. A Disco-lord escorted by a couple of Venom Crawlers and then a couple of max sized blobs of Spawn. Season with some infantry to hold Objectives and whatever else you want by way of firepower and support characters.

 

It may not have the durability of a Termie brick but you have the option to get into your opponent's face very quickly and start making a mess, especially if you go Creations of Bile.

[WatchCaptainNavar]

Fast would be a good way to run a csm list as the codex does have quick punchy units especially if you’ve got the right legion trait such as red corsairs for advance and charge + count as double on objectives. An army of possessed, warp talons, venom crawlers supported by a master of possession to play on the deamon kin keyword might work well if you can figure out a good secondary build where you can gain points passively by moving and deep striking while the possessed fight over the primaries.

 

the infantry can either hide with line of sight or and plan to be in melee turn 1 or 2, so they aren’t left hanging mid board for the oppositions shooting.

[Relic]

11 hours ago, WatchCaptainNavar said:

For the rhino rush, under nephelim 2 rhinos were a staple of my battalions one with either a 9 or 10 man squad of khorne legionaries with a master of executions and the other with 5 khorne legionaries and 5 chosen. They were great for the distract, destroy and score while the terminators marched up the middle.

But under arks I think multiple rhino’s are a trap into a lot of lists as if you deploy conservatively expecting to go second it’ll be hard to hide them all and any that can be seen are going to get hit hard. There’s so much free high strength and damage out there at the moment I can see rhinos getting destroyed or bracketed before they can serve there purpose and I wouldn’t be surprised if a semi competitive guard or marines list could kill 5 rhinos in a turn is they have average dice rolls.

 

I self admittedly love my Rhinos - so handy for movement and combat phase shenanigans. You don't need 5 though of course!

 

I wonder if terrain is a factor as well, I tend to me play more WTC style terrain setups. Lots of los blockers, which helps. Mobile shooting armies are still really good, but gun lines aren't great on them. 

 

Also I tend to think anything on foot and in the open is dead now without AoC. Bar the Terminator brick, but that takes so much investment now!  

[WrathOfTheLion]

6 hours ago, WatchCaptainNavar said:

Fast would be a good way to run a csm list as the codex does have quick punchy units especially if you’ve got the right legion trait such as red corsairs for advance and charge + count as double on objectives. An army of possessed, warp talons, venom crawlers supported by a master of possession to play on the deamon kin keyword might work well if you can figure out a good secondary build where you can gain points passively by moving and deep striking while the possessed fight over the primaries.

 

the infantry can either hide with line of sight or and plan to be in melee turn 1 or 2, so they aren’t left hanging mid board for the oppositions shooting.

I'm really tempted to try to get my Red Corsairs onto the table. I've been thinking about it, and at least in more casual play and maybe in tournament play, being fast and scoring might have something to it. In my mind, with the increase in fragility with the loss of AoC, getting those units in there as quickly as possible with advance and charge might be a way to go.