'Siege of Terra - The End and the Death Volume 1' by Dan Abnett

[Tolmeus]

In anticipation of the release of 'Siege of Terra - The End and the Death Volume 1', I'd like to open a separate thread about the actual content of the book or the review about it. 

 

If this is irrelevant, please point it out to me. However, I would like to spare interested parties the 300+ posts of speculation from the previous discussion.

 

And I ask that no speculation outside the content of the book be allowed to flare up. Those addressed hopefully know the score. 

[MarineRaiderII]

One thing I never realized that the novel unveiled was the healing power of the Aegis of the Golden Throne regardless of who sat on it. I would think that it would make sense from a military stand point to rotate your best fighters close to it to heal and sustain them, then put them back out on the FEBA. Also the cover art, the E looks huge and Malcador states how tall He is!

[Nagashsnee]

I mean all you have to do in the other thread is go by date and start on the day it went up for pre order ( and spread like fire on the web). Having two threads on 1 book based solely on laziness seems counter productive. 

[Taliesin]

11 hours ago, MarineRaiderII said:

One thing I never realized that the novel unveiled was the healing power of the Aegis of the Golden Throne regardless of who sat on it. I would think that it would make sense from a military stand point to rotate your best fighters close to it to heal and sustain them, then put them back out on the FEBA. Also the cover art, the E looks huge and Malcador states how tall He is!

 

What does Malcador state?

[MarineRaiderII]

2 hours ago, Taliesin said:

 

What does Malcador state?

When they switch places he openly remarks he forgot how immensely tall he is. When you look at the cover art it seems almost comical, like 18-20 feet but Malcador is used to being around Primarchs and to comment on his size seems remarkable.  Almost as if DA is reinforcing the cover art. It could also be it's been a minute since he has left the throne. I wonder why they didn't consider the unspoken sanction or a version of it to aid him before he left the throne or to aid M.

[Taliesin]

Maybe its one of those " in the eye of the beholder"  things like in Master of Mankind where he appears different to various people who see him?

Or perhaps he really is that tall.

[MarineRaiderII]

5 minutes ago, Taliesin said:

Maybe its one of those " in the eye of the beholder"  things like in Master of Mankind where he appears different to various people who see him?

Or perhaps he really is that tall.

 

It truly is. He even mentions that E changes appearances, sexes etc etc to suit the room and audience and he wonders if he has ever really seen the true face. I wonder though about the real size of the throne, was it existing or did the E make it ?

[Tolmeus]

8 hours ago, Nagashsnee said:

Having two threads on 1 book based solely on laziness seems counter productive. 

 

Had nothing to do with laziness. Seemed to me, that the discussion thread was all about the speculation of what eventually is going to happen in the book. Instead, this thread is supossed to focus on the actual content. Hence its creation one day before the release.

 

Nevertheless, you are right that it is counter productive when both threads are used for the some content (ergo, the actual plot of the book). I was hoping to avoid that (see description above).

Edited February 21, 2023 by Tolmeus

[Noserenda]

Certainly been talking about the contents of the book the last few pages, duplicate threads are just a bit awkward

[Tolmeus]

As I said, the purpose here behind was clarity and not the opposite of it. There is nothing in principle against closing this thread. Since the thread is irrelevant, it may be considered closed. 

I myself can not technically close it, unfortunately. You are welcome to continue in the other thread  

[Brother Lunkhead]

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It was a B&C Board decision to close the old thread and continue the discussion here. Brother Tolmeus had nothing to do with that action. Any concerns or questions on that subject may be directed to me via PM.

=][=

 

[Brother Lunkhead]

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This discussion will be locked until Vol 8 of the Siege of Terra is released.

Sometime around 25 Feb 2023 GW/BL estimated release time.

 

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[Kelborn]

With today's release on audible, this thread is thus reopened for discussing.

 

And before you ask, this thread was chosen for a more streamlined discussion without the 10-15 pages of pre-release theorizing and hype.

 

Don't forget the spoiler tags, though. ;)

[DarkChaplain]

Some thoughts on TEATD and the Abnettverse:

 

Is it just me or....

 

Is Abnett implying in Samus's epigraph that Erebus, or Lorgar?, might be gambling for the whole "Dark King" ascension?

 

Quote

Unless one of them finally notices what is possible. What might be accomplished here. The potential, the beautiful potential, which, though none of them sees it – none of them – is closer at hand than they realise. I can almost taste it. It is closer than it has ever been, closer than it was even in the un-times of the war that broke heaven.
 

Who among them has the courage to reach for it? So few of them, so very few, are even in a position to see it or comprehend its meaning. I can count them upon my fingers. Him? The boastful king on his tiny throne, his feeble light guttering out? Him? The squealing pretender, hunched in the howling gullet of hell? Him, perhaps? The maniac prophet slithering through the open wounds between unblinking stars? One of them might see, before it is too late, what could be achieved today. One of them might recognise, at the very last, that none of this matters… the annihilating rock, the measureless slaughter, the pathetic rage… unless they elevate the war to where it truly belongs. Not here. Not Terra. But outwards and inwards and everywhere, until that which is Ruin, and that which is Ruin alone, as it was in the beginning and shall be at the end, is everywhere and everything.

 

Both Erebus and Lorgar would qualify as Prophets, though I'd attribute mania more to Erebus, and he has been shard'ing his way through time and space. Then again, that'd also be how Lorgar would have to show up at this point - and his absence so far has been nothing if not utterly suspicious. Everybody's been counting him out of the picture since Slaves to Darkness, but that goes way beyond what Lorgar would typically be like when it comes to the Gods. I cannot see him as a mere bystander in this pivotal final showdown. It would be very much like him to come and try to usurp the powers at the end.

 

Lorgar, with his music of the spheres mumbo jumbo has some pretty big parallels to what Samus says here.

 

On top of that, we have Barthusa Narek coming to Terra, firmly believing that Lorgar will show up. While you can make the point that this is a futile wait for an event that'll never happen, I think it's far more likely to be actual setup for the finale. It makes too much sense in context with the Dark King reveal happening after this point.

 

And since this is already showing links to the Bequinverse... we've had Word Bearers trying to wrap their heads around Enuncia already. We've got proof that they're involved in some capacity - and at this point I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that Lorgar will make a play, which ends in failure during the Siege, but sets him on a course he'll still be on ten millennia later.

We've already had bits of lore about Lorgar leaving his long-term meditation and stepping back into the galaxy by the time of the Rift, and him being a secret rival to Valdor in the whole long-term Enuncia-Yellow King-Eudaemonics secret war would at least give him reason to stay off the grid for so long.

 

Part of this is obviously me wanting Lorgar to not have been sidelined for the last... 10? books with nobody considering his position on the galactic board anymore. Would be a total waste of a character who has shown a habit of making opportunistic power grabs while considering himself too smart for the rest, just to get smacked. He recognized what was happening to Horus, and he also knew what happened to Fulgrim right after Isstvan. And with his pride being what it is, he'd love to get back at Horus after Slaves to Darkness....

[Subtleknife]

Anyone not recoeved their LE copy yet? They have taken payment from me but I have had no email confirm dispatch and have not received anything yet either.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Yea idk if Annette read echoes, but Amit didn't seem like the type to find injury piteous, or to cry for abandoned troops. He was all about winning at all costs; he needed to be dragged back to the gate by his command squad.

 

Why can't abnett keep consistent characterization and tone?

[System Sound]

26 minutes ago, DarkChaplain said:

On top of that, we have Barthusa Narek coming to Terra, firmly believing that Lorgar will show up. While you can make the point that this is a futile wait for an event that'll never happen, I think it's far more likely to be actual setup for the finale. It makes too much sense in context with the Dark King reveal happening after this point.

It would seem that Narek is just waiting there pointlessly, but this is Abnett we are talking about. I'm pretty sure there's more to this.

 

29 minutes ago, DarkChaplain said:

And since this is already showing links to the Bequinverse... we've had Word Bearers trying to wrap their heads around Enuncia already. We've got proof that they're involved in some capacity - and at this point I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that Lorgar will make a play, which ends in failure during the Siege, but sets him on a course he'll still be on ten millennia later.

One of the books that the servo skull translates in the Hall of Leng also mentions the City of Dust.

 

Speaking of which. I don't know if it's terrifying or funny that Al Azif (The Necronomicon) is kept in the Hall of Leng. I wonder what else is "cannon" in 30k/40k that is related to Lovecraft. I imagine that old/outer gods could be some sort of powerful daemons? 

 

 

[System Sound]

Great book overall. Some fantastic character work and world-building as always. 

 

"They have crucified Titans along the Ultimate Wall." This line alone goes so damn hard!

 

"I am old. I am tired. I sit on the Golden Throne." There's something profoundly sad about this line. The whole chapter did more to characterise Malcador than all previous HH/SoT books combined. 

 

 

Also, a new drinking game, since Echoes had "volkite". In this, take a shot every time the end and the death get mentioned in any form.

[StrangerOrders]

So its a great read so far but its also a very interesting case study in leaks and early spoilers and how people a very keen to only state what suits their pre-existing narratives.

 

Case in point:

Spoiler

Did not see any of the leaks that Malc, per his own internal narrative, has a very interesting view on the Primarchs that he believes the Emp shares. Seeing them as both tools and sons, sons of his own after a fashion which is neat. 

 

Its also a neat insight into some very key characters. 

 

I found their plans very intriguing in that they had been planning for the Primarchs to last for centuries longer if not millenia and even intended for those that could be weaned off of Conquest to rule after a fashion as a grand dynasty.

 

Which, combined with the note that the Emp has worn several genders over the millenia, makes me think Abnett has been hanging out with GRRM and Miyazaki lately lol. Also the whole idea of the Pantheon being a great 'Other' that the Emp has been alternatingly taken power from and trying to defend again is alsp eerily familiar... might just be too much Elden Ring corrupting me but its not a bad thing.

 

Its also an idea that I am genuinely perplexed that most of the fanbase can't seem to grasp: a father can view his children as both tools and genuinely love his children at once. Thats literally how aristocracy works.

 

And the Emp is nothing if not the incarnation of aristocracy imo. I love the grand sort of arrogance and also excellence he is played with in this depiction. Its very epic in the traditional sense and I am happy with Abnett going in this direction!

 

Also love the image of a high-off-his-ass BAngel captain stapled to a hover throne carrying guns and a horde of servitors limping around screaming and gunning traitors down. Its so nutty and insane and I'm here for it!

 

Great read so far. And given the way its getting quoted out of context and neglecting what some might consider key tidbits of info, its one to read yourself!

[Moonreaper666]

64% through this book. I have to say that Dan's ideas about Chaos has similarities to Xenoblade Chronicles 3 and Mental Omega (Red Alert 2 Mod)

 

XC3:

 

Spoiler

So much Chaos energy causing Terra to be literrally frozen in time. This meant that Guilliman would technically never arrive on Terra. Nine hours becoming an endless, grueling months of waiting, fighting and dying

 

Mental Omega

 

Spoiler

So Cyborgs are used in that game/mod because mind control doesn't work on them. Later on it is figured out their BODIES can be controlled instead.

 

Horus/Chaos can't corrupt Custodes BUT THEY CAN drive them insane and have them attack other Loyalists, including the Emperor himself

 

I was right in that:

 

Spoiler

Horus should have waited. Guilliman wouldn't have arrived on time thanks to the Warp blocking him, distorting time and the Astronomican not working. Even if that wasn't the case 9 hours is too long just getting in the Solar System, let alone engage the Traitor Armada. The Vengeful Spirit itself is invulnerable.

 

The Traitors and Daemons are getting closer to the Throne and killing what little defenders are left

 

The Custodes can't take on Doombreed, Be'lakor, Ku'gath AND N'Kari at the same time!!!

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Moonreaper666

[Lord_Ikka]

Anybody else annoyed about the picture of Rann and Zephon where Zephon is holding one of his volkite pistols after the chapter deliberately pointed out multiple times that he put those pistols aside for a plain bolt pistol? I know its a minor thing and probably just a mis-communication between writer and artist, but it just annoyed the crap out of me.

[Noserenda]

The worst thing in that sequence was how pointless the power armour was, literally every shot a kill, which gets a bit odd as it goes on honestly, its like everyone was naked...

[DarkChaplain]

4 hours ago, Lord_Ikka said:

Anybody else annoyed about the picture of Rann and Zephon where Zephon is holding one of his volkite pistols after the chapter deliberately pointed out multiple times that he put those pistols aside for a plain bolt pistol? I know its a minor thing and probably just a mis-communication between writer and artist, but it just annoyed the crap out of me.

 

Frankly, the fact that this artwork is in the book at all is most assuredly down to both of them having models (from last year's BL Celebration). Both characters are as far as I can tell model-accurate. Somebody from marketing/corporate must've decided to stick to that.

 

And to be brutally honest: I do not believe that out of all the tons of things in the book, that was the best choice for the 4th artwork. There's so much stuff in that part of the book that'd have deserved it more than just another battle scene with two characters who just so happen to have models that look the same.

[Moonreaper666]

I did not expect this but the book does have two suprising connections to the 41st/42nd Millenium

 

Fo's weapon:

 

Spoiler

Becomes the Terminus Decree and is capable of wiping out Primarchs and Space Marines

 

Should Draigo used it he would be ending the life of Guilliman, Primaris, all Loyalist Space Marines AND the Grey Knights!!!

 

While this would kill most of the Traitor Marines it would also doom the Imperium since the Traitor Legions can just rebuild and attack the leaderless and defenseless Imperium

 

A certain Custode:

 

Spoiler

This is the starting point towards Valdor's path to becoming a Radical Inquisitor. His spear's absorption of memories, fear and doubts are starting to break him from the inside

 

This explains why he becomes the enemy of the Imperium during the 41st Millenium, fighting Eisenhorn, Ravernor and Bequin

 

[b1soul]

More than half way (maybe two thirds) through and really enjoying it

 

Quite a lot going on...off the top of my head, the more significant threads are:

 

1. Oll, John and crew continue their way to and through the Inner Palace

 

2. Malcador tries to commune with the Emperor, they do so, the Emp rises with Valdor, Vulkan, Dorn and Sanguinius in attendance, the Emp and crew teleport assault the VS but things go very awry, Malcador the Hero operates the Golden Throne in the meanwhile, but not before psychically transmitting his living will to select Chosen

 

3. Drunk Horus (drunk on Chaos, that is) appraises the situation and makes semi-lucid decisions, like dropping the VS void shields (making it possible for the Emp's teleport assault)

 

4. At the Hollow Mountain, the DA try to fix the Astronomican and defend against an incoming DG assault led by Typhus

 

5. Keeler continues to lead the Conclave and aid fleeing refugees 

 

6. Rann, later joined by Archamus, Zephon and Nahami, fights on outside the Eternity Gate

 

7. Loken moves to join the fight at the Processional of the Eternals, but the Warp saturation on Terra has distorted time and space, and he can't seem to make his way to where he wants to be.

 

8. Some remnants of the command cadre at Bhab fall back to the Tower of Hegemon to continue coordinating the faltering defence, Ilya joins them, makes contact with Shiban at Lion's Gate, Shiban thinks there's something very strange about the VS which he's been targeting to no avail

 

9. Sindermann searches for anti-Chaos knowledge in the Halls of Leng

 

10. Basilio Fo awaits his fate.

 

These threads are interspersed with vignettes of fighting and drama all around the Siege.