'Siege of Terra - The End and the Death Volume 1' by Dan Abnett

[Corinthus]

47 minutes ago, Scribe said:

 

The premise you are presenting is false.

 

The HH as Origin Myth stood on its own. The IA articles began fleshing things out. The FW Black Books blew the doors off.

 

I'm going to walk away before I start ranting, but few wanted a better HH story, than the folks on this board. We didnt get it. Thats just how it goes I guess, but the HH itself? It could have been amazing.

 

 

Why would it be false? The HH lore was as superficial as any other excerpt in rulebooks. I can understand the objection to a detailed novelization, as some would have preferred to keep it a myth, not expand on it. But once the novels were set in motion, I don't see why anyone would want to keep the story low profile, vague and, again, superficial.

 

It's not about making something better and upgraded (which is subjective) because there was no material for a retcon. The novels are expansions of lore. You can retcon the 13th Black Crusade but you are not retconning something as vague as "the Emperor was betrayed by Horus, almost got killed and was enthroned forever in Terra, anyways here we are ten thousand years later, there is only war and the Black Templars are killing Orks in Armageddon".

 

The HH series could have been amazing / better / only written by X writter / had more Eldar intervention / less iterators / fleshed out more the Iron Hands (ironically) / less Erebus / whatever. That really isn't a point, man; it's a wish.

 

And all of these I say wishing Abnett doesn't plot-twist the hell out of the ending, because I will be pissed if he pulls something like: Oll is the guy sitting in the Throne 10k years later and the Emperor escaped with Horus and Sanguinius to Hawaii to live a happy life.

 

After all these years, I'm happy we are at the end of the ride and I'm happy it's Abnett. Maybe it could have been better, but we will never know.

Edited March 5, 2023 by Corinthus
typos & wrong numbers

[Noserenda]

I think Abnett could absolutely have written an excellent ending in one book of he had had that limit, this is one of the few stories when you actually can have an abrupt ending and transition to the scouring after all, i like this story but i9t is absolutely bloated in places and you could cut swathes without impacting the story.

[Scribe]

43 minutes ago, Corinthus said:

 

Why would it be false? The HH lore was as superficial as any other excerpt in rulebooks. I can understand the objection to a detailed novelization, as some would have preferred to keep it a myth, not expand on it. But once the novels were set in motion, I don't see why anyone would want to keep the story low profile, vague and, again, superficial.

 

It's not about making something better and upgraded (which is subjective) because there was no material for a retcon. The novels are expansions of lore. You can retcon the 13th Black Crusade but you are not retconning something as vague as "the Emperor was betrayed by Horus, almost got killed and was enthroned forever in Terra, anyways here we are ten thousand years later, there is only war and the Black Templars are killing Orks in Armageddon".

 

The HH series could have been amazing / better / only written by X writter / had more Eldar intervention / less iterators / fleshed out more the Iron Hands (ironically) / less Erebus / whatever. That really isn't a point, man; it's a wish.

 

And all of these I say wishing Abnett doesn't plot-twist the hell out of the ending, because I will be pissed if he pulls something like: Oll is the guy sitting in the Throne 10k years later and the Emperor escaped with Horus and Sanguinius to Hawaii to live a happy life.

 

After all these years, I'm happy we are at the end of the ride and I'm happy it's Abnett. Maybe it could have been better, but we will never know.

 

Its false, because the choice is not 'codex entry' vs the abomination we received.

 

They COULD have cut 99% of the Salamanders/Vulkan line. Several of the Vulkan books were absolutely bottom tier, bordering on unreadable. Terrible.

They COULD have cut 99% of the Raven Guard/Corax line. It was a bloody RETCON that detracted from the Legion, the HH, the Emperor. Terrible.

They never needed the Cabal (pointless!) and the Perpetuals was just a way for Abnett to pull 'modern' present day references into the HH story that didnt need it, and is worse off for it.

Emperors Executioners?! DELETE.

Garro couldnt even stick the landing!

Unremembered Empires? Forgettable indeed, or at least I wish it was!

 

They could have hit all the plot points. They could have built up Horus, and his relationship with Sanguinius. The Thunder Warriors. The Emperor and his relationship to Chaos. They could have told the Horus Heresy story, stuck to the story beats, and honestly it could have been amazing. Look at the work Wraight did. Look at the work ADB did. They are still playing the story beats, and making it play WITHIN the HH.

 

I mean its actually sad, in that interview Abnett did, that he calls out Horus as the tragedy. Horus isnt the tragedy at all. The Emperor is the tragedy, its HIS story, and his failures!

 

Its honestly brutal how badly they stuffed this series.

 

We agree on one thing though, I too am happy we are nearly done.

[Arkangilos]

Yeah, as someone who is enjoying TEATD, most of it doesn't add to the story at all. It attempts to add to the atmosphere, but the atmosphere was already set by Echoes. I disagreed with a user a couple pages back on one thing, and that being that I didn't think Amit was mischaracterized, but everything else he said I largely agree with. A lot of what is happening just doesn't really make sense. 

A good portion of the book is just pointless descriptions that seem to repeat and even undo the great atmosphere set up in Echoes. 

For example, in Echoes communication is basically dead. Vox doesn't work for anyone except in very rare cases and even then it is garbled. Now they can get just about any message through the vox. 

In Echoes they could barely see because the ashes, smoke, and dust were so bad, and the sky itself was going crazy. Now it seems fine. 

Characters were either on the wall, or evacuated into the Eternity Gate, now they are sallying forth and counter attacking, with no mention of how they got out there. 

[Arkangilos]

2 hours ago, Scribe said:

and the Perpetuals was just a way

I will say, I like the idea of perpetuals, just not the execution. 

This book mentions the Shamans. The perpetuals could have been those shamans that didn't go with the plan to create the Emperor and were reincarnated with some deciding to help and some deciding to turn, or they could have been other children the Emperor had to go along with the Star Child theory.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Arkangilos

[Moonreaper666]

1 hour ago, Arkangilos said:

Yeah, as someone who is enjoying TEATD, most of it doesn't add to the story at all. It attempts to add to the atmosphere, but the atmosphere was already set by Echoes. I disagreed with a user a couple pages back on one thing, and that being that I didn't think Amit was mischaracterized, but everything else he said I largely agree with. A lot of what is happening just doesn't really make sense. 

A good portion of the book is just pointless descriptions that seem to repeat and even undo the great atmosphere set up in Echoes. 

For example, in Echoes communication is basically dead. Vox doesn't work for anyone except in very rare cases and even then it is garbled. Now they can get just about any message through the vox. 

In Echoes they could barely see because the ashes, smoke, and dust were so bad, and the sky itself was going crazy. Now it seems fine. 

Characters were either on the wall, or evacuated into the Eternity Gate, now they are sallying forth and counter attacking, with no mention of how they got out there. 

 

No counterattack. Those Loyalist outside Eternity Gate are just fighting, surviving, killing and dying

 

Bhab Bastion's fall meant more Loyalists and a lot more Traitors are now outside Eternity Gate slaughtering each other

 

Spoiler

Abaddon basically kills an Imperial Fist on the same level as Fafnir Rahn after slaughtering many of the IF. That's how brutal it is

 

The real one barely survives being attacked by Daemons. He and his forces were about to be killed by the Sons of Horus when the forces of Zephon, Archamus and some White Scar captain rescued him

 

Amit is one of the 'lucky' few in side

 

Spoiler

Only 10k Marines inside Eternity Gate awaiting the endless Traitors that are breaking in

 

[UltraMarine_Sgt]

On 2/25/2023 at 3:27 PM, SkimaskMohawk said:

Yea idk if Annette read echoes, but Amit didn't seem like the type to find injury piteous, or to cry for abandoned troops. He was all about winning at all costs; he needed to be dragged back to the gate by his command squad.

 

Why can't abnett keep consistent characterization and tone?

I absolutely agree—Amit would never be crying because troops were outside of the Eternity Gate. He was an absolute beast and berserker—not some emotional :cuss:.
I usually like Dan Abnett’s writing—but he does get overly emotional at times. These Astartes are war machines, and Amit was one of the toughest and strongest. I hate when these characters are written poorly.

[Fedor]

6 hours ago, Scribe said:

 

Its false, because the choice is not 'codex entry' vs the abomination we received.

 

They COULD have cut 99% of the Salamanders/Vulkan line. Several of the Vulkan books were absolutely bottom tier, bordering on unreadable. Terrible.

They COULD have cut 99% of the Raven Guard/Corax line. It was a bloody RETCON that detracted from the Legion, the HH, the Emperor. Terrible.

They never needed the Cabal (pointless!) and the Perpetuals was just a way for Abnett to pull 'modern' present day references into the HH story that didnt need it, and is worse off for it.

Emperors Executioners?! DELETE.

Garro couldnt even stick the landing!

Unremembered Empires? Forgettable indeed, or at least I wish it was!

 

They could have hit all the plot points. They could have built up Horus, and his relationship with Sanguinius. The Thunder Warriors. The Emperor and his relationship to Chaos. They could have told the Horus Heresy story, stuck to the story beats, and honestly it could have been amazing. Look at the work Wraight did. Look at the work ADB did. They are still playing the story beats, and making it play WITHIN the HH.

 

I mean its actually sad, in that interview Abnett did, that he calls out Horus as the tragedy. Horus isnt the tragedy at all. The Emperor is the tragedy, its HIS story, and his failures!

 

Its honestly brutal how badly they stuffed this series.

 

We agree on one thing though, I too am happy we are nearly done.

 

Author preferences aside, Wraight's work with the Death Guard was little better than Abnett's with the Wolves, or Thorpe's with the Raven Guard in terms of  the extent of retconning/adding additional material into key events. Muddying the waters around Mortarion actually engineering/having a level of involvement in the calming of the fleet so he could huff Nurgle fumes was every bit as unneccessary as thorpe's Alpha Legion/genetech maze additions, or dan making the Wolves self-styled attack dogs.

 

Personally, whie i've plenty of criticisms, i've also kind of enjoyed the siege being a massive, clunky multi-author series; it just somehow fits the maximalist, kitchen-sink of influences vibe of the setting. It might also be because i'm not in the camp of thinking BL has only ever had 2 or 3(at the most) master writers who almost never put a foot wrong, backed up by a bunch of utterly unskilled hacks that can never improve to the point of even writing an entertaining piece of pulp sci-fi. To me, they are all just decent to good genre writers with varying strengths and weaknesses, and different approaches to the setting. All capable of a bad book, but usually good enough to produce something solid and entertaining.

 

In my years on this site, i've very rarely seen you positively engage with anything that isn't ADB or Wraight. The contingent of the fanbase that feels there is a HUGE gap between a couple of favourites and almost everyone else were never going to like a long multi-author series much, no matter the story beats being played. Which is fine, and quality-wise i'd expect a much smaller team of no more than 3-4 authors (almost regardless of who made it up) would have been better in the end,  but i feel there is a lack of self-awareness by some of the ADB/Wraight/Abnett hardliners at times here. You could have been given 10 books of mostly Horus/Luna Wolves/Sanguinius/Blood Angels focused stuff and Emperor character study, yet would still only have liked the one or two by your favourites anyway. Criticism would just have shifted from covering the wrong things badly, to covering the main themes/characters badly. 

 

I can see it now....

 

"There was more characterisation and gravitas in one page of ADB's Horus book IV, than in Haley's next three combined!. Then Thorpe came in and destroyed the character for good within three chapters of his Luna Wolves vs Blood Angels at Beta Garmon entry" ..."To be honest, none of them make any sense now anyway, with the new characterisation of the Emperor just revealed in Dan's last book, which is all about his pact with Chaos and the Cabal"

Edited March 6, 2023 by Fedor

[Scribe]

2 minutes ago, Fedor said:

In my years on this site, i've very rarely seen you positively engage with anything that isn't ADB or Wraight. The contingent of the fanbase that feels there is a HUGE gap between a couple of favourites and almost everyone else were never going to like a long multi-author series much, no matter the story beats being played. Which is fine, and quality-wise i'd expect a much smaller team of no more than 3-4 authors (almost regardless of who made it up) would have been better in the end,  but i feel there is a lack of self-awareness by some of the ADB/Wraight/Abnett hardliners at times here. You could have been given 10 books of mostly Horus/Luna Wolves/Sanguinius/Blood Angels focused stuff and Emperor character study, yet would still only have liked the one or two by your favourites anyway. Criticism would just have shifted from covering the wrong things badly, to covering the main themes/characters badly. 

 

You forgot French being one of the good ones, and McNeill, before he went off to write for whoever he's working for now. I still think Mechanicum was good, and A Thousand Sons was also great.

 

I ALSO should be on record as saying Know no Fear was good (even if it did introduce Ol and all the flaws Abnett injected there), and even Legion for its various sins introduced, wasnt terrible.

 

Thorpe absolutely ruined the Raven Guard story however, and the less said about the Salamanders arc, the better. I mean the single 'Blood Angel' book couldnt even get their story arc correct!

 

The irony, is that you can paint me as a fanboy for ADB/Wraight/French, and I'll gladly take those arrows, but lets not miss the massively biased fanboyism for Abnett in this thread that I just got to chuckle at instead.

 

So no actually, upon review, I cannot agree with your assessment. There are books from probably a half dozen authors that I liked out of the monstrosity that they turned the HH into, the issue wasnt the authors, it was.

 

1. Massive bloat of the 'story'.

2. Poor editorial control. See 1.

 

If those things had been addressed, its not like I'm asking for anything amazing here. Just hit the story beats, dont blindly retcon things into worse versions, and dont try and force some weird meta plot into what was a basic story.

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

I loved this book, but not the first time I read it.  I was in a bit of a rush the first time, focusing in on Loken.  Reading that Loken was Horus' favorite son was fun.  "He is my Sanguinius" There is also a chapter that makes me feel a bit more confidant that Garviel will live through all this.  Keeler says "we'll say, I was there."  When asked how will we remember all of this in the future.  I have been saying this for over ten years on this forum.  I still have some nerves that ill be let down but..  The series starts with those words and I hope they end with them.  Loken I think he is now the first named "grey knight" ( 1:xxvi ), even though he he refused the offer to help found them.  The trademark go to Ahlborn.  Now its pretty clear he was qualified for the Honor.  He also seems to be using some kind of psychic power that gives invisibility and mutes his sound.  His Hide/ conceal game is over the top.  The Traitor stealth Skitarii are out classed by a lot.  He also seems to be sped up.  More then once he is moving faster then a Astartes should.  I also think he used Foreboding and Prescience to fight the triple team Traitors astartes.   I was a bit disappointed that we did not get any focus on Mourn-it-all but he dose use it to kill a bunch and have it in his hand at the end of the book so I know its not forgotten.  When the Teleport strike teams did not include him I was lost.  Him fighting by the Emperor's side in the a desperate last stand, was fundamental to my idea that he had seen the future in a prophetic vision in Horus Rising.  I was cast adrift as a read through the rest of the book with no clue as to where this was all leading.  It did seem to be more about Rann and the Bringer of Sorrow.  Then at the end the ball curves down in to the zone, uncle Charlie.  He had been throwing fast balls the whole time then This?  The book did seem a bit off at points.  Things seemed bad but not all THAT bad.  I had to go back and reread a bunch and I was very pleased what I had missed.  Sindermann

 

I think Sindermann in the Library of Leng is responsible for a lot of the weirdness in the book.  On my second read through I picked up that the book readers had summoned Loken to them and that Loken had pointed out that there might have been results to their readings elseware.  So I set out to find proof and I did.  Corswain yells "Awake, arise or be forever fallen!" ( 3:xxvii ) Words that came to him from "somewhere"  When I first read it I thought  it must be Cypher in his head.  But these words came from Mauer ( 3:xxvi ).  So Sindermann helped defend the Astronomican, what else did he do?  Did he inspire Rann?  Did he get in Abaddons head and make him want to go back to his ship?  Did he help Dorn not fall to Khorne?  I am still looking for connections but they spent hours reading off lines.  Hours in a place of power when the clocks had stopped.  How much time did they really spend there?  Days?  Months?  I tried to find out what the Library of Leng was and was only able to find a link to the plane of Plateau Leng from Cthulhu mythos.  

 

I am so thankful to Mr Abnett and the other writers.  Even the ones who were not my cup of tea, blessed us all with their work.  How bad could it have been?  How sad would that have been.  Thanks Dan!

 

The prodigal son of the prodigal son returns home with Mourn-it-all (a chaos blade), and a force sword.  The next book is going to be fun!

[DukeLeto69]

@Corinthus you are missing the point... fanbases tend to be entitled and what BL are giving them is not what they wanted! Well actually not what that group over there wanted. A group over the other side are quite happy, another group are not overly bothered, that group there are mildly amused by any fan rage they see, that group...etc!

 

The argument I do not get is when people say “but they/he is changing the lore” like it is some kind of sacrosanct tome that thou must never alter. Perhaps if the HH had already had millions of published words prior to 2006 and Horus Rising I could understand that. But it didn’t. Several thousand words at best. It was a myth separated from the W40k present by 10,000 years. In the real world that would be 8000BCE. How accurate is our knowledge from that time period?

 

IMHO where GW/BL and their studio/authors get it wrong is not taking enough of an in-universe stance in what is published. Depending on which novels you read, the character’s knowledge of the HH, Primarchs, traitor legions, lost/redacted Primarchs etc etc varies. And yes Abnett (my fav author) is guilty if that!

 

One of my favourite moments in a BL novel has been in the Chris Wraight Vaults of Terra books...

 

When Inquisitor Crowl enters an unused room in the Imperial Palace and is confused by the number of Primarch statues. Sweet in-universe stuff!

 

Edited March 6, 2023 by DukeLeto69

[DukeLeto69]

8 hours ago, Scribe said:

 

Its false, because the choice is not 'codex entry' vs the abomination we received.

 

They COULD have cut 99% of the Salamanders/Vulkan line. Several of the Vulkan books were absolutely bottom tier, bordering on unreadable. Terrible.

They COULD have cut 99% of the Raven Guard/Corax line. It was a bloody RETCON that detracted from the Legion, the HH, the Emperor. Terrible.

They never needed the Cabal (pointless!) and the Perpetuals was just a way for Abnett to pull 'modern' present day references into the HH story that didnt need it, and is worse off for it.

Emperors Executioners?! DELETE.

Garro couldnt even stick the landing!

Unremembered Empires? Forgettable indeed, or at least I wish it was!

 

They could have hit all the plot points. They could have built up Horus, and his relationship with Sanguinius. The Thunder Warriors. The Emperor and his relationship to Chaos. They could have told the Horus Heresy story, stuck to the story beats, and honestly it could have been amazing. Look at the work Wraight did. Look at the work ADB did. They are still playing the story beats, and making it play WITHIN the HH.

 

I mean its actually sad, in that interview Abnett did, that he calls out Horus as the tragedy. Horus isnt the tragedy at all. The Emperor is the tragedy, its HIS story, and his failures!

 

Its honestly brutal how badly they stuffed this series.

 

We agree on one thing though, I too am happy we are nearly done.

 

I actually agree with a lot of this but you did miss one clear statement...

 

IMHO

 

Also see my earlier post. You see/say the story beats and I say, who says so? What are the story beats for a book series about Rameses II? How do we know they are the story beats? Who says? Would those beats be different if the novels were written in the 1930s vs today?

 

I think few people would disagree that the HH series bloated. We have all discussed this at length on how we would subjectively improve it. For starters BL needed to decide if it was a setting or a sequential series. It was both and neither in execution and became a mess. 

 

IMHO (see what I did there, it is only an opinion and only as valid as any other opinion) there are some folks who read a few hubdred words of lore, originally bodged together to sell a kit that could only have one type of sprue. It then got a few thousand more words for a White Dwarf fluff piece, and probably a few thousand more sprinkled across rule books, codexes, and campaign books. But over the years people have head cannoned the gaps and imagined what was unsaid.

 

Well love it or loathe it, the BL and FW books are THE lore now (and even they contradict and play with the unreliable narrator tool).  

[Nagashsnee]

10 minutes ago, DukeLeto69 said:

 

I think few people would disagree that the HH series bloated. We have all discussed this at length on how we would subjectively improve it. For starters BL needed to decide if it was a setting or a sequential series. It was both and neither in execution and became a mess. 

This, this can never be said too much/often. It is the great bleeding sore that undermined it all more then the Kyme Salamander trilogy ever could ( and lord knows it tried).  Its a series half filled with setting dressing and lies. 

 

 

 

 

[Fire Golem]

Probably like, 7.5-8/10. Bloody hope it’s not 4 books, 3 is severely pushing it, wish however many volumes had just come out together. The writing is great, the story is great in the first half and then does kind of just go nowhere for the second half. I’m really struggling to see how there’s more than another book left unless they’re like 200 pages or something each. 
 

It’s a shame that personally, a lot of real world stuff has detracted from the end of a series I’ve been reading for like, 13 years. The limited edition saga, splitting the last book up at the last minute, being really needlessly nebulous about how many books it even is now. This book was definitely better than my my level of excitement going in, but I didn’t enjoy it as much as I would have had I been reading the end of the series after a frictionless transaction to get it. 
 

I really liked it, but I could/should have loved it. 

Edited March 6, 2023 by fire golem

[Corinthus]

9 hours ago, Scribe said:

 

Its false, because the choice is not 'codex entry' vs the abomination we received.

 

They COULD have cut 99% of the Salamanders/Vulkan line. Several of the Vulkan books were absolutely bottom tier, bordering on unreadable. Terrible.

They COULD have cut 99% of the Raven Guard/Corax line. It was a bloody RETCON that detracted from the Legion, the HH, the Emperor. Terrible.

They never needed the Cabal (pointless!) and the Perpetuals was just a way for Abnett to pull 'modern' present day references into the HH story that didnt need it, and is worse off for it.

Emperors Executioners?! DELETE.

Garro couldnt even stick the landing!

Unremembered Empires? Forgettable indeed, or at least I wish it was!

 

They could have hit all the plot points. They could have built up Horus, and his relationship with Sanguinius. The Thunder Warriors. The Emperor and his relationship to Chaos. They could have told the Horus Heresy story, stuck to the story beats, and honestly it could have been amazing. Look at the work Wraight did. Look at the work ADB did. They are still playing the story beats, and making it play WITHIN the HH.

 

I mean its actually sad, in that interview Abnett did, that he calls out Horus as the tragedy. Horus isnt the tragedy at all. The Emperor is the tragedy, its HIS story, and his failures!

 

Its honestly brutal how badly they stuffed this series.

 

We agree on one thing though, I too am happy we are nearly done.

 

So it all boils down to your personal preferences of how it should have been. It's ok, everybody is entitled to an opinion.

 

I couldn't care less for the Salamanders, so I didn't read their books.

I barely cared about the RG so I didn't pay a lot of attention to their books.

So far so good.

Legion is one of my favorite novels in the whole series and, to me, it made sense that a conglomerate of aliens tried to act upon a galactic civil war.

Emperor Executioners is a badass idea, so it is the Emperor Exterminators, the Emperor defenders and so on. It builds character into a Legion desperately in need after all the wolfy-wolf BS from 40k.

Never cared about Garro. I didn't like FotE too much.

UE was weird and not brillantly executed, and I admit that it could be cut and not much would be lost, but I'll take an author trying to expand and offer some explanation for a Legion that needed a reason to stay away from Terra for the end.

 

So these are all personal preferences and that's ok, but someone could justify that the perpetuals are elevating the Heresy setting to new quality levels and he would be as right as you because that would be an opinion too.

 

Anyways, it doesn't matter and I don't want to keep arguing with you as if I was right and you were wrong. I just wanted to share the excitement I feel for this imperfect series coming to end.

 

 

[DukeLeto69]

31 minutes ago, Nagashsnee said:

This, this can never be said too much/often. It is the great bleeding sore that undermined it all more then the Kyme Salamander trilogy ever could ( and lord knows it tried).  Its a series half filled with setting dressing and lies. 

 

 

 

 

 

Obviously in the real world the HH books started out as a sequential series with the opening trilogy. Staying focused on Horus and gang, it could have been a cracking 9-12 book series charting his rise and fall and how those around him reacted. That could have been the “spine” in a setting.

 

Once the appetite for stories (and games) set in 30k was clear, then start providing other standalone books and mini series focusing on specific factions and/or events (without distracting from the spine but fleshing out the setting).

 

They kind of did that with The Primarch series but IMHO fluffed that too! For ME that series was a perfect vehicle to ONLY explore origins/formative years of the Primarchs and the Great Crusade. ie prequel events to the HH only.

[Nagashsnee]

The whole thing was a mess top to bottom, the lack of focus on factions that get wiped early in the heresy (Iron Hands, Sallies, Ravens), early on in the series meaning the only real chance of seeing the before picture for them was lost. Instead of having to make stuff for them to do after they lose 90%+ of their forces. The utter farce the Mechanicum/birth of the Dark Mechanicum ended up being ( Kelbor Hal we hardly knew you), the wasted chances to showcase 30k only factions/subfactions ( Solar Auxilia, Imperial army, etc). 

 

And it all comes down to a total and continued utter lack of central planning, oversight and focus.  You  have factions like the word bearers/white scars get full open to close trilogy with before, during and after focus exploring and the conflict and then you have...others ( I dare anyone to tell me what we learned about the Salamanders in 3 whole books that we did not know before hand).  Now if this series had lasted 1-2 years fair play, they did not plan/expect the growth and were overwhelmed. But 5 years in? 8 years in? Come on. 

 

And to bring it on topic this snowballed into the Siege. The siege we finally get to the end ( and one day and 2-5 books more the death) and we barely know key characters. People harp on Echoes and the character/legion work done on the BA and Sanguinius but the fact is  we hardly knew then.  50 books in and the the Blood Angels as a legion were non existant and Sanguinius was a cardboard cut out who said 'I will not die this day' when you pulled the string.  And you kinda need to know your main characters.

 

And even the assets they did introduce and work on ( perpetuals, enuchia) were no where near where they needed to be for the siege to be able to be about...well the siege. And then you have them introduce NEW stuff ?? Erda? Basilo Flo and the virus of death.  Lads/ Dan/ BL/anyone you had 50 books, you dont get to make the last book into 4 sub books 'because we really wanted to explore the story'. You had 50 books (and no one forced you to stop at 50) and that's just main books, short stories and novellas gallore, audio dramas bloody puppet shows for all i know. 

 

People on here call 'abnett hate'. No one hates Dan Abnett, but 50 books into the HH and now 8 books into the 8 book finale is to many simply the WRONG place to use even 1 word to tie in 40k works, introduce new character/plot points and gaze at the scenery. Its been a long flight, I was promised a landing, THEY promised me a landing, THEY gave me a ETA,  I am not in the wrong to keep them to their own set goals ( still cant believe they decided to commit to 8 books before they knew how many books they needed) and I just want the plane to land.  I know many of my fellow passengers are still enjoying the flight and would like to maybe not land at all. But the pilot/airline made a choice, and i for one would like him to do his job. 

 

And I will say it again for the back benchers, 50 BOOKS, to play with Erdas, and perpetuals and enuchia and cabals and whatnot. I just want the siege to be about the siege and give me the highlights of the siege and not setting up tie ins to 40k books. Looking back the the 8 books so far they is plenty to cut ( Niobe train ride can ride straight into a short story) and have earlier books deal with/ set up things. But to have the book have The emperor and company teleport to the spirit to then shift to Zephon/Rann fun times, keeller exploring her faith, custodians argue over hierchy for flo. Not the time or the place.  The end and the death part 1/? would have been 10x better ( for me) if they had the teleport  towards the end of the novel and then shift focus on the boarding parties.

 

You know focus on the finale, in the finale, of the finale. 

Edited March 6, 2023 by Nagashsnee

[Osteoclast]

Possibly four books? Well I’m definitely going to just point to Abnett next time docs at work complain about a word vomit report of mine. 
 

How do you even turn a boarding action into two, much less three, doorstopper books?

[Moonreaper666]

1 hour ago, Osteoclast said:

Possibly four books? Well I’m definitely going to just point to Abnett next time docs at work complain about a word vomit report of mine. 
 

How do you even turn a boarding action into two, much less three, doorstopper books?

 

Vol 2 will end the Siege. Vol 3 starts the Scouring

[Matcap86]

I mean, making 3 books out of this is unfeasible IMHO. The ending of book one says: to be concluded in part 2, and where we're at in the story probably already needs a bit of aftermath to become comparible in size. When it gets turned into 3 or 4 books we're just in the Hobbit movies territory. Which is disrespectful to their readers. 

[Ubiquitous1984]

2 hours ago, matcap86 said:

I mean, making 3 books out of this is unfeasible IMHO. The ending of book one says: to be concluded in part 2, and where we're at in the story probably already needs a bit of aftermath to become comparible in size. When it gets turned into 3 or 4 books we're just in the Hobbit movies territory. Which is disrespectful to their readers. 

The hardback says that.  But the ebook says TO BE CONTINUED IN VOLUME 2.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Ubiquitous1984

[DukeLeto69]

Don’t forget the Coda will be an additional novella too!

[Ubiquitous1984]

I've just received my LE copy, and it's an absolute unit - 650 pages and it feels as heavy as a FW black book.  I don't think it would be physically easy to read and certainly wouldn't be comfortable to hold for long periods of time.  I'm glad I read the ebook instead!

 

The artwork at the back of The Lion and Curze are superb.  These alternative depictions of the Primarchs have been an absolute joy.  

 

I can also confirm that the LE, like the hardback, says that the book will CONCLUDE with book 2.

 

 

[SkimaskMohawk]

I decided to do a reread and to ignore my points of contention, to see how much I enjoy the book as a standalone book.

 

But I ran into an issue right away lol, and it was with Amit again. He's on the delphic battlement. After the gate has been closed. The gate is within the protection of the Battlement, its what he wanted to stay and die on.

 

I think abnett just didn't quite understand the layers of the defence. I mean, I didn't either until I pulled up the maps to try and understand some of the locations referenced. But that seems to be the biggest issue in his whole disconnected locations.

[Nagashsnee]

44 minutes ago, Ubiquitous1984 said:

I can also confirm that the LE, like the hardback, says that the book will CONCLUDE with book 2.

I reckon that was the plan and as books are sent to the printer way in advanced that was what was printed. But the ebook being a ebook got to be updated once they decided it was 3 parts. 

 

This is purely my hypothesis, but the artwork for part 2 ( Sanguinius vs Horus) diffidently points towards that direction .