Bypassing void shields (or not..)

[SteveT]

Hi all

 

we've just started playing AT (better late than never) and have a query re void shields..

 

The Collisions and Falling Titans sections do not refer to bypassing shields. I assume that means that you still get void shield saves as the book is very specific usually where they don't apply? 

 

I can see that if you are within 2" of a titan and it falls on you that you don't get a save but if it started 4" away you would as it hits the shield on the way?

 

If so do Collisions work the same way - if a titan staggers into me from 4" away i get void shield saves?

 

Advice appreciated before we start throwing our toys out of pram   

[LameBeard]

My main advice for AT is that the style of writing is not the same as other GW books. Personally I much prefer the AT style, but it does tend to lend itself to a slightly friendlier mindset where you fill the gaps yourself.

 

In this instance I play no void shields - it didn’t even occur to me to ask. I take the collision as happening within the shield, and the shields don’t stop the relatively high mass, low velocity of a staggering titan if starting outside. But my actual experience is very thin compared to most frater in this forum - I will be prepared to defer to others!

[Oxydo]

We've been playing it the same way; with collisions and falling titans ignoring the shields, because those "attacks" all originate within 2 inches. 

Worth remembering is that collision, falling or exploding titans are affected by which arc they hit. At least that's how we read and play it. For falling, we look at the arrow on the scatter dice to see which "direction" the attack comes from. So your titan can't get hit in the rear by something falling from the side of it.

[SkimaskMohawk]

We play falling titans as needing to actually occur within 2" to ignore shields. Mechanically, the game will always tell you when an attack ignores shields, falling titans don't, and the attack originates from the titans base, not the line that's drawn (similarity to beam). Thematically, a titan falling from outside the shield would...hit the shield, much in the same way as a missile or stream of bullets would hit the shield .

 

Collisions I think have to happen from being forced to move through a model or piece of blocking; there's no way not to be within voids when colliding. 

[Sherrypie]

For tournament purposes: Collisions happen when models touch (no shields), Falling doesn't move the models proper but makes an area that causes hits (shields allowed as RAW unless originated within 2"). This can be partially intuited by the fall not only representing the whole titan stumbling along but flying debris, bits of rock and metal as the titan comes apart and so on.

 

For what its worth, I personally enjoy playing Falls without shields as the stumbling feels funnier. Play it the way your group enjoys their big, dumb robots smacking each other.

Edited February 21, 2023 by Sherrypie

[Sword Brother Adelard]

We play shields for falling unless within 2". RAW, that's how we think it works unless within 2" of the base.

 

The whole idea that falling is always being bodily hit by the titan itself is fine until titans start falling through other titans, or buildings. I.e if my warhound falls towards a Warmaster, it's clearly not also physically hitting the titan on the other side of the Warmaster.

 

Truth be told, I do think we should make the no shields radius a bit bigger, probably under half scale = no shields, over half scale = shields.

[General Zodd]

I agree with the vast majority of the replies that the rules, by omitting to make an exception, mean shields are effective against falling titans. However, I also agree with LameBeard that it feels a bit wonky, and everyone in my local play group plays it as ignoring shields. Void shields might react to a Titan falling into them, but it’s not shunting the whole Titan into the warp, and neither is that Titan bouncing off them!

 

At least, that’s how ancient techno-magic forcefields work in my head.

[Mandragola]

As the rules don’t cover this, it’s something to agree with opponents before a game, or just dice for. People have entirely reasonable arguments for why either option should apply so the important thing is just to pick one and get on with it. 
 

Events should clarify some of this stuff. The maximal fire guys, who organise events in the UK, have produced a pack that addresses this question, among others. They don’t allow shield saves. Id recommend having a look at the pack because, whether or not you agree with their rulings, they highlight some of the issues that can come up. https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/f23b890d-604e-4eb8-9a13-cab5372d6d6f/downloads/MAXIMAL FIRE Unofficial FAQ.docx?ver=1676463191617

[Interrogator Stobz]

Lolz, a bit late here. Great topic.

We play no shields for falling etc; the simple logic being based on some questions rather than RAW.

Questions such as, how can another Titan/unit get within 2" with a charging/melee action if voids are in play? Surely they would trigger a Void save to do so. As far as I can tell you can just move up to any Titan.

And; How can the owning Titan move within 2" of terrain or anything else if voids are in play? If they stop large and slow critters their own

movement would be super difficult. 

 

Whilst I know we can 'logic' up an explanation for those questions the easiest is Voids don't stop vehicles moving close.

But we don't tournament here so everyone's different. 

 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Voids are based on speed, they only react to things moving over a certain speed, anything over that is shunted into the warp. (So you have to be careful approaching them in vehicles even!)

That means that the body of the titan would likely not trigger the void, but things being thrown outwards likely would.