Now that (Most of) the rules are out there, what do you think of Desolators?

[Tacitus]

Spikey Bits covering the release from WarCom - 

 

Its like I thought - they have two "guns" one Missile, one rotary grenade type thing.

 

"Super" Frag OR Krak named like the Bunker but unable to switch and with different stats. 

 

I'm disappointed that the number of missile tubes isn't the number of "shots". 

I like the two guns with potentially two different threat bands. 

There's a lot of "trap" to them.  Some people might be tempted to hide them and just use the indirect fire. 

 

Super Frag and even more so Super Krak are an improvement over "regular" frag and krak - I wonder if that will float over, or if that's why they named them differently.  And it does lend itself to my prediction Missile Launchers will be the FOTM for 10th. 

 

Right now, I'm thinking of going Super Krak and use the bomblet launcher as the "swap" to Frag.  And now you can do both. 

[Lord_Ikka]

If the points stay the same at 35 ppm, they'll be taken but probably only in MSU squads as support. Lower that, and then they'll be everywhere. 

 

Super-frag is ok, but SM don't really need more S4 1d weapons especially at that cost on non-Gravis bodies. So you'll see them taken with superkrak only, which makes them a decent backfield objective holder or good for hiding in terrain for a turn or two and popping shots off with the castellan launcher before jumping out to blast with the krak at a big target. All in all, they look to be a fairly balanced unit on paper but that only goes so far until people get their hands on the models and start playing.

[Tacitus]

Where did you get 35 PPM?  I've been looking and didn't see it.

[Djangomatic82]

I think they will be very chapter dependent. I don't really see a use for them over other options in my BA lists.

Question, do they have anything that compensates for the indirect firing malus's? meaning the -1 to hit and +1to SV?

[Kallas]

3 minutes ago, Djangomatic82 said:

Question, do they have anything that compensates for the indirect firing malus's? meaning the -1 to hit and +1to SV?

They have the Signum (same as the Devastator Signum) to give 1 model BS2+; and if the Sergeant swaps his Frag/Krak (sorry Super Frag/Krak ) out for the Vengor Launcher, then he also gets a Targeter which gives him specifically +1 to hit with Heavy Weapons (so you don't get +1 with his pistol, I suppose).

 

So the Sergeant can do some decent work out of LOS with the Vengor (d6x 6/-1/2) plus Castellan (d3x 4/-1/1) shots hitting on 2s (BS2+ with Signum, -1 BS from Indirect, +1 for Targeter) but still suffering the save bonus of Indirect.

[Orange Knight]

I think the rules are solid, and the missiles are more reliable Las Cannons, basically - minimum damage of 4 is very good.

 

Unfortunately I think they are too expensive compared to other things that had their costs reduced after the last Errata. Unless they get their own Errata, they might not see much action until 10th.

[Karhedron]

47 minutes ago, Tacitus said:

Where did you get 35 PPM?  I've been looking and didn't see it.

 

It is in the booklet that comes in the box.

 

I am not sure they are worth it. For the price of 10 Desolators, you can get 2x5-man Devastator squads with missile launchers and have enough change to buy a Whirlwind for the indirect fire.

 

Granted regular Frag and Krak are not as good but Devastators can switch between profiles rather than being locked in at the start of the game. You get 3 units instead of 2 with 50% more wounds and you get access to the Whirlwind stratagem to shut down overwatch. For the same points you can swap the missile launchers for Grav Cannons which are much better (albeit shorter ranged).

 

I am pretty sure the Desolator prices predate the AoO price drops so it may not be a fair comparison. But as it stands,  I will wait for 10th edition rather than getting Desolators now.

 

The Brutalis on the other hand looks very good. MVP indeed! 

[DesuVult]

Desolators don't look good to me.  They would have been solid earlier in the edition but drukhari dark lances have already been power crept out of their once popular spot.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

These rules have been in the ether for well over a month. The only thing that's changed since the playtest info that Valrak dropped is one AP stat on one weapon.

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Lord Nord

[Karhedron]

3 hours ago, Lord Nord said:

These rules have been in the ether for well over a month. The only thing that's changed since the playtest info that Valrak dropped is one AP stat on one weapon.

 

True but we have also had the price confirmed which is the other half of the equation. At 25 ppm, Desolators would be a steal. At 30ppm they would be worth considering. At 35 ppm, they seem overpriced to me,

[Blindhamster]

16 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

True but we have also had the price confirmed which is the other half of the equation. At 25 ppm, Desolators would be a steal. At 30ppm they would be worth considering. At 35 ppm, they seem overpriced to me,

Those will almost certainly be day one erratad considering the update that happened post these going to print. Suspect 30ppm tbh

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

55 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

True but we have also had the price confirmed which is the other half of the equation. At 25 ppm, Desolators would be a steal. At 30ppm they would be worth considering. At 35 ppm, they seem overpriced to me,

 

What BH said. Those points don't "confirm" anything given that the Lieutenant has had both base and equipment price reductions since they were printed. Look for a FAQ this week.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

These are some sweet sweet minis with totally bad arsed weapons.

[BrainFireBob]

Guns are still just not there aesthetically, watching suggestions with great interest.

 

35 ppm is too high. 

 

Superfrag seems redundant- assault bolt rifles exist, indirect profile exists. Primaris need armor cracking. Superkrak might address the gap. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Every batrep I’ve seen they are OP .

[Arikel]

Indirect is cool. Frag OR Krak is meh. Not super hot on the models, they don’t click for me so a pass for me on these guys for now.

[Tacitus]

I didn't know we already had the points per model.  Yeah, at 35PPM they won't be taken much.  They're the same cost as Hellblasters, and even though they're a little better than Hellblasters - not by enough to make them attractive.  Hellblasters are not good, these guys are also likely not good (enough). 

 

Edit to add:  I've seen people suggest these points were created before the big price drop MFM - and they could drop to 30ppm - but I don't think that happens.  Hellblasters didn't get a points drop, and these guys are "better" than hellblasters.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Tacitus

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I really like Hellblasters but Eradicators are just better. Depending on your meta the indirect could be quite nice, especially versus pesky Swooping Hawks.

[Tacitus]

Just realized Hellblasters did get a drop.  But not much of one.   Not nearly enough to make them competitive.

[Marshal Reinhard]

Locking to only superkrak or superfrag just means it pretty much becomes a monochoice of superkrak. Unless you REALLY want to bully throngs of guardsmen or gaunts or something. (and if you did, you have many many options to do so less costly than these guys. You'd have to make a list that really goes out of its way to avoid str 4 shooting capabilty before superfrag becomes an interesting option)

 

That said, typically, GW has overvalued the flexibilty of being able to switch between frag and krak for missile launchers. They've seldom been top pick. Just having one type then, should work out in their favor, even after a percieved FOTM effect for missiles stops applying.

[Karhedron]

10 hours ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

Every batrep I’ve seen they are OP .

 

I haven't seen any batreps featuring them yet. Are these GW ones? If so, the usual "shiny new unit is the hotness" may apply to their writing.

[Guest Triszin]

I really like them for space wolves.

Combo'd with keen senses makes them great.

 

 

[Tacitus]

On 2/26/2023 at 5:03 AM, Lord Nord said:

These rules have been in the ether for well over a month. The only thing that's changed since the playtest info that Valrak dropped is one AP stat on one weapon.

 

The rules have been piecemeal in the ether.  Most people I saw had half of the final rules and you had to guess right putting the two halves together.

[Tacitus]

23 hours ago, Tacitus said:

Just realized Hellblasters did get a drop.  But not much of one.   Not nearly enough to make them competitive.

To put this in more perspective - 

 

In the last MFM - Dev's got a PPM increase, and mostly freebie Heavies.

 

5 Devs with 4 PC are significantly less than 5 Hellblasters with any of their choices.  (I'm assuming the Hellblaster point drop did not include "free" weapons and theirs was built in)

 

5 Hellblasters are not as "good" as 5 Desolators, but nearly the same points.

 

5 Desolators are not necessarily as "good" as 3 Eradicators - but 3 Eradicators are cheaper.  The Erads don't get the indirect bomblets but 3 Erads are 9 T5 wounds vs 10 T4 wounds, and the Melta Rifles get to Double Tap giving you 6 Anti tank shots vs 5 for the Desolators. 

 

Faling to take a deeper dive on the Hellblasters has thrown INFANTRY heavy weapons squads out of whack such that only Devs and Erads are really attractively priced I'd guess. 

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

6 hours ago, Tacitus said:

The rules have been piecemeal in the ether.  Most people I saw had half of the final rules and you had to guess right putting the two halves together.

 

They weren't piecemeal if you knew where to look. Valrak dropped them as a whole.