Now that (Most of) the rules are out there, what do you think of Desolators?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

This unit has more flex than the typical Primaris unit.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

2 hours ago, Kallas said:

Yes, but I think @WrathOfTheLion is saying that you're still paying the cost of having an Indirect-capable weapon when you're using it as a direct-fire weapon; or you're not using the main missle (Super Krak/Frag) when you're leveraging the indirect part (though it'd be possible to peek out to shoot something with the SK/F and still use the Castellan indirect on something else.

 

This assumes that you're firing both weapons at the same target.  Since they're different weapons, they can be fired independently -- launch superkrak at that Redemptor or Brutalis stomping up the middle and the Castellans at the Incursors hiding in terrain on a midfield objective (for example).

[Malakithe]

Between the indirect fire nerf and all the reducing AP/DMG out there your not getting any real use out of them anyway. When mathhammer says it takes multiple turns for a heavy support choice to wipe out a GEQ unit then its time to start looking at options that arent dumpster fires.

[Karhedron]

6 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Between the indirect fire nerf and all the reducing AP/DMG out there your not getting any real use out of them anyway. When mathhammer says it takes multiple turns for a heavy support choice to wipe out a GEQ unit then its time to start looking at options that arent dumpster fires.

 

Remember though that the indirect damage is a bonus on top of their primary armament. 4 Superkrak missiles per turn should put some decent damage onto armoured targets per turn, especially with 3+D3 damage.

[Malakithe]

11 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

is a bonus

I think you and I have different meanings for 'bonus'. A bonus is something you should be happy to receive. If you see something and think 'eh its there I guess' is that really a bonus? 

[Kallas]

9 hours ago, Iron Father Ferrum said:

This assumes that you're firing both weapons at the same target.  Since they're different weapons, they can be fired independently -- launch superkrak at that Redemptor or Brutalis stomping up the middle and the Castellans at the Incursors hiding in terrain on a midfield objective (for example).

Sure. I was just trying to explain what Wrath was saying.

 

Generally, I don't see d3x 4/-1/1 shots doing very much when fired Indirectly, unless it's against the chaffiest chaff. -1 BS and +2 save really hurts the low end indirect weapons, and the Castellans are very much that. Even though they're somehow more potent than the dedicated artillery of a Thunderfire Cannon somehow 

[Iron Father Ferrum]

7 hours ago, Kallas said:

Even though they're somehow more potent than the dedicated artillery of a Thunderfire Cannon somehow 

 

*laughs in Iron Hand*

 

I do get it, though.  That's the thing about high-volume, low-quality fires: they rely on skewing dice rolls.  Back in 5th Edition, everyone used bolters and other small arms to kill Terminators because if you roll enough dice you will start to fail those saves.  In 6-7th after Hull Points became a thing, everyone used autocannons and assault cannons to kill light tanks because it was more efficient to strip HP than to go for the explosion.

 

The TFC and Castellan appear to operate in a similar way: make your opponent roll enough dice that they will fail saves.  Firing indirectly is obviously going to negatively effect this so fire them directly if the opportunity arises.

[Kallas]

Not meaning to go too off-topic, but my point about the TFC was that it used to be good, but it's been nerfed so hard it's now got a worse weapon profile than a handheld grenade launcher. It used to be 5/-1/1, then 5/0/1, and now 4d3x 4/0/1. For a dedicated artillery piece which costs about 2/3rds of what a Desolation Squad costs (120 vs 185 with Vengor, 175 without).

 

Anyway. Yeah, the Castellan are a secondary weapon to the main launcher, and they don't need to utilise the indirect aspect if they don't need to.

[Blindhamster]

I think rule wise the unit isn’t bad, it’s not the best either but it’s not bad. 
 

visually I’ve seen some decent conversions for them at this point so there’s definitely some good ideas out there

[Orange Knight]

The unit does the job of a Devastator squad, the Whirlwind and a Thunderfire Cannon.

 

That's a positive for shrinking the range in future, imo.

[Guest Triszin]

=][=.  This thread is about desolstors.=][=

 

Refrain from personal attacks.

Be nice.

 

 

Locked until clean up.