Tactical Squads: bayonets or chainswords?

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

Hi.

I need opinions/suggestions/ideas about using bayonets/chain bayonets and chainswords in Tactical squads. What do you prefer to use? And why.

 

I play SoH and in big Tactical squads I use chain bayonets and in smaller squads I use chainswords. But I have played very few games in Horus Heresy and my experience is quite limited. What are your experiences?

Thanks!

[Gorgoff]

8 hours ago, AGRAMAR said:

Hi.

I need opinions/suggestions/ideas about using bayonets/chain bayonets and chainswords in Tactical squads. What do you prefer to use? And why.

 

I play SoH and in big Tactical squads I use chain bayonets and in smaller squads I use chainswords. But I have played very few games in Horus Heresy and my experience is quite limited. What are your experiences?

Thanks!

For the price a ten men tactical squad pays to get chainswords, which basically makes a terrible close combat unit a underwhelming close combat unit, I'd rather buy this squad a rhino with dozerblade and searchlights. 

 

Big blobs could benefit from bayonets though. It's only one point per model so why not. Depends a little bit on the different legions just like most things but I would do that.

[Galron]

Im in the bare bone catagory as well in my DA force. Not worth the points. I dont have the option in my IW which makes that choice fairly simple. Do SoH tacticals still have the option for Banestrike ammo?

[Dont-Be-Haten]

A 10 man squad, 9 with chainswords, a vexilla, the sergeant with a powerfist and artificer armor runs 20 points shy of 200. A despoiler squad is roughly 135 points for the same load out. The difference is if you overwatch, you get 30 bolter shots plus your 18 attacks with shred (at full strength).

 

My Raven Guard run chain bayonets because of rule of cool, though it comes down to how optimized you want to be. If I had to choose it over again, I view 36 points in the grand scheme of things isn't breaking the bank points wise. Where as 18 chainswords on tacticals is basically 10 points shy of another despoilers squad.

 

So if min-max/optimization is more important then you want bayonets, or nothing.

 

That being said, Shred on troops is a solid option in prolonged combat. My advice differs depending on what Legion you play. A Legion that can utilize Pride can take veterans, which benefit with the extra attacks chainswords provide at a reduced cost. So taking WS5 with an additional attack for the same price as a chain bayonet makes sense, you want weight of dice.

 

For my thousand sons army I plan on taking chain swords on my troops options. I'm doing this because I can switch back and forth between Pride or Guardian RoW, and while it's a premium troop tax, it still has teeth against other troop choices. Troops are rarely going to be able to handle elites choices in this game. But I've also made the decision to play 1,000 sons  more as a rule of cool army. Pride seems like a very fun, elite army to play with, and I don't have the luxury of playing different RoW, with Raven Guard, as they become significantly weaker.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Dont-Be-Haten

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

41 minutes ago, Galron said:

Im in the bare bone catagory as well in my DA force. Not worth the points. I dont have the option in my IW which makes that choice fairly simple. Do SoH tacticals still have the option for Banestrike ammo?

Nop, sadly not. Only Seekers, Veterans and Independent Characters. Same as Alpha Legion.

Edited February 27, 2023 by AGRAMAR

[Mandragola]

Chainswords seem spectacularly over-priced for tacticals. There seems to be a design choice that upgrades should cost 1, 2 or 5 points, then multiples of 5. This results in lots of weapons that are either a bit too expensive or a bit too cheap. Chainswords would be worth considering if they were about 3 ppm, I think.

 

I don't have any melee upgrades on my RG tacticals and I think that's mostly right. Their job is mostly to fire their bolters, hopefully using fury of the legion. It may actually be worth having something to allow them to beat other people's tacticals (and similar) in melee. I'm finding that combats between non-specialist marines can be very swingy because they're so bad at hurting each other. It's easy to fluff your attacks, lose combat by 1 and break. This is also an argument for Vexillas.

 

If I was using a more melee-focused army I'd consider bayonets, but still not chainswords. And I'd seriously consider switching to despoilers or assault marines.

[MegaVolt87]

I plan on doing two x20 man tac squads with chain bayonet for my IW's. SoH should be taking a mix of despoilers/ assault squads with tac squads, not the chainswords on tac's. It seems their Legion rules etc encourages mixed troops vs taking a single squad type. 

[arnesh88]

My general rules of thumb is:

- No chainswords on tacticals (too expensive)
- Bayonets for legions that can easily boost their strength (ie Blood Angels)

- Chain Bayonets for melee preferred legions that are running tacticals

- Nothing for legions that just want tacticals to hold objectives

 

For SoH, probably Chain Bayonets. Not necessary, but if you have points to spare or likely to enter combat, give them chain bayonets.

[Gothical]

I am just getting into the Horus Heresy now there's lots of plastic kits, I am planning on using Bayonets/Chain Bayonets on Tacticals to help win combat against other similar units, along with a melee weapon Sergeant and a Vexilla. I am unsure which to use, it will likely depend on Legion choice (still struggling for my Loyalists but definitely Alpha Legion for my Traitors). It is not a large investment in points overall and increases what the basic unit can do reliably.

 

Either +1 S or Shred is a fantastic upgrade depending on context, but I think the Chainsword is just too expensive for them and I would rather have a Despoiler/Assault Squad instead (or even Veterans if running a Rite of War that makes them Troops) and keep the Tactical Squads focused on shooting & positioning.

[tinpact]

For Blood Angels, taking chain bayonets lets tacticals hit tougher targets (at worst wounding T8 on 5s with rerolls), but vs marine toughness or worse they're already wounding on 2s with plain bayonets.

 

The extra attack from chainswords is good, but not better than taking a despoiler/assault squad.

[ThatMetalhead]

and between bayonets and chain bayonets what do you guys think it's better? i think that chain bayonets have a better impact on the output of the unit, but i don't know if it's worth the point difference

[Dont-Be-Haten]

27 minutes ago, ThatMetalhead said:

and between bayonets and chain bayonets what do you guys think it's better? i think that chain bayonets have a better impact on the output of the unit, but i don't know if it's worth the point difference

On 2 squads, 18 chain bayonets cost 1 point more than a rhino, 18 bayonets cost half of that. Shred is superior to no shred, it just boils down to what you are willing to give up.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Here's the breakdown in average wounds:

• Naked tac vs other basic marine averages 0.0825 wounds for 10 points
• Bayonet tac vs other basic marine averages 0.1089 wounds for 11 points
• Chain bayonet tac vs other basic marine averages 0.1452 wounds for 12 points
• Chain sword tac vs other basic marine averages 0.2475 wounds for 15 points

So you do actually get the most increase output for your points off the chainswords. But at the same time, why are you bringing tacs in your list? Is it to fill the troops slot? Is it to to function as a cheap 20 man screen for the core of your list? Is it to be a big nuisance on an objective? 

 

If your plan is to commit to blobs that push onto an objective and just fury everything they can, chainswords add to forcing disproportionate trades, especially against SoH with the initial -1Str. If not, probably don't take them, as the tacs biggest draw is its cheapness.