How do you foresee the future of AdMechs in the new Ed.?

[Bouargh]

Hi there,

 

I will drop into a kind of Wishlist Post, I know, but I wonder if you have any opinion on what could be the future of AdMech under a future new Ed of W40k... Do you see it as a simple reedition of the Codex with a small release of one iddled miniature or do you expect (wish/pray the Omnimessiah for) something wider?

 

Rule wise, I do nt expect so much changes, except if the game mechanics is deeply affected. May be the data-tether thing might be cleaned up as I found it messy and the usual suspects (Strats) refunded into unit special rules.

 

Should it be a wider release I would be then tempt to believe on some additional units - my guesses/bets/wishes/prayers to the Omnimessiah:

• another Robot unit, but in order not to compete with Heresy, a small robot release - someting like Bombots maybe
• a plastic kit for Battle Servitors
• Myrmidions - as they are one of the only AdMech armed branch no represented in 40 k (I discard Ordinatus). Could be a dual kit of course. But being in potentail competition wth HH, a multi-period kit (not multi-verse) might not be the most favoured option...

 

 

• and for the very same reason of giving a representant to un uncovered slot in 40k, a vehicle that would belong to the Ordo Reductor - Say for example a Defiler type platform with an ordonance weapon (Plasma decimator, a big neutron cannon or a sonic weapon for example)

 

But I doubt it might be the case, and I would rather bet on a codex rerelease with teh usual goodies and a single mini release (Battle Servitors will be my guess).

 

What about you guies?

 

  

[Warden-Paints]

I sold my Admech army back in 8th, before we got the last wave of new releases. I will build another one day. 

 

As far as new models, I would like to see more varieties of Tech-Priest, there could be some really wild and wonderful variations, in all of the force organization slots. 

 

Also a plastic 40k specific Myrmidon release would be great. 

[Ulfast]

I would like ot get something heavy. like some kind of nuit that can take damage and still stand and also some kind of unit with a big gun to make lot of damage as it suits us. Right now we have actually a very weak army with low T and armour. And I miss something big shooting. 

[Magos Takatus]

Personally I'd like some sort of heavy Skitarii that are powerful in small numbers and able to be carried by one of our flying transports since they currently have very little practical use. I'd also like some of the Forge World models to find their place in the army. I have a horse in that race thanks to my Triaros. Rules-wise, I'm struggling with both Canticles and Imperatives on top of the Tech Priest Holy Orders or whatever they are called. I wouldn't be devastated if they streamlined it a bit.

[Bouargh]

3 hours ago, Magos Takatus said:

Personally I'd like some sort of heavy Skitarii that are powerful in small numbers and able to be carried by one of our flying transports since they currently have very little practical use. I'd also like some of the Forge World models to find their place in the army. I have a horse in that race thanks to my Triaros. Rules-wise, I'm struggling with both Canticles and Imperatives on top of the Tech Priest Holy Orders or whatever they are called. I wouldn't be devastated if they streamlined it a bit.

 

I guess there are enough options ontroduced in the various novels and books to cover this: Skitarri Sagitarius and Skitarri Protectores, Servitor Protector  Praetorian (Ogryn sized Servitor - yummie)...

Edited February 28, 2023 by Bouargh
revised with Lexicanum exact names...

[Magos Takatus]

11 minutes ago, Bouargh said:

 

I guess there are enough options ontroduced in the various novels and books to cover this: Skitarri Sagitarius and Skitarri Protectores, Servitor Protector (Ogryn sized Servitor - yummie)...

Sagitarius was the name that showed up on the Jes Goodwyn concept art wasn't it? Loads of cool gun designs but no images of the bodies of the models? That's what I was thinking of when I made my post. :D

[Bouargh]

2 hours ago, Magos Takatus said:

Sagitarius was the name that showed up on the Jes Goodwyn concept art wasn't it? Loads of cool gun designs but no images of the bodies of the models? That's what I was thinking of when I made my post. :D

 

If you are thinking in this one, Lexicanum associates it with Skitarii protector: a big tough skitarii acting as Magii´s bodyguard

 

Sagitarius are suposed to be heavy weapon teams or so and Skitarii praetorian, tougth guies under stimm that go frenzied. 

[Magos Takatus]

That's interesting, I remember Praetorians being pretty much what we now call Kataphron Servitors. I think they described them being tracked units in an old story. I think it was called Deus Ex Mechanicus or something? It's a bit strange trying to sift through the old lore since they didn't have a strongly defined identity back then.

[Nagashsnee]

Rules will be as they are. I would like a combat themed skitarii HQ  to balance out the current marshal.  Maybe the kit can be done that makes a generic one, o theme it towards sicaraan/pteraxii with rules to suit. 

 

I would like a orthodox tech priest special character to balance out Cawl theme/lore wise. Not from mars. 

 

Model wise i dont want new units, i want both flavours of priest to be re done and come in boxes of 10.  And some of the 30k stuff to be done in plastic and come into the army as relic units (to show how few/precious they are). 

 

Also we are solely lacking in artillery, which for a faction that contains the ordo reductor is hilarious. Maybe a new/updated crab tank that can also make a new version or two? 

[Bouargh]

On 3/1/2023 at 9:41 AM, Nagashsnee said:

Model wise i dont want new units, i want both flavours of priest to be re done and come in boxes of 10.  And some of the 30k stuff to be done in plastic and come into the army as relic units (to show how few/precious they are). 

 

Sure, the sculpts themselves are not that great (fast click Negavolts cultists looks better IMHO) and a kit of 5 electropriests at this price is just, well, looking like a kinda organized robbery.

 

On 3/1/2023 at 9:41 AM, Nagashsnee said:

Also we are solely lacking in artillery, which for a faction that contains the ordo reductor is hilarious. Maybe a new/updated crab tank that can also make a new version or two? 

 

Could not agree more, but some might argue that Knight of the Cog rule allows you to field serious fire power and artillery under the form of a knight Castellan... Covering the slot

[Madao]

Aaaand you cannot run Knight of the Cog in AoO detachment.

 

My wishlist:

- non-supporting HQ with nice punch

- dual kit of heavy infantry (melee/ranged option)

- heavy vehicle ~250 points (like Rogal Dorn)

[Bouargh]

2 hours ago, Madao said:

Aaaand you cannot run Knight of the Cog in AoO detachment.

 

Well, I do not have it so clear, and I didn´t found any explicit cancelation of knight of the cog rule in AoS. But probably the prohibition to field any other detachment then the AoS one may support the inhibition of Knight of the Cog? I frankly dunno.

 

But fortunatly enough this can be overcome easily through the very same AoS Grand Tournament pack rules: muster an army with a battle brother detachment consisting in a Freeblade with Questoris Mechanicum alliegeance... Do I have it right?

But fortunatly enough AoS is not the only optional rule pack there and except if you go on the tournament scene under a tournie that impose this pack, well,  there is probably no real residual issue I think... 

 

By the way, a rule question I have not been able to solve linked with Kinght of the Cog: If though Knight of the cog rule you add a Super Heavy Auxiliary detachment with a Questoris Mechanicum knight in it, do you have to pay the +3 CP or can you get it for free? If you have to pay these CPs, what is the benefit of this rule vs. fielding the detachment on your rooster as it is? Knight of the Cog keyword does not really gives any kind of benefits, does it? Or I am missing a point related to the factions keywords and the apparent useless / counter productive nature of "IMPERIUM" key word that will be overcome by the knight of the cog keyword?

[Madao]

Yes, you have to pay 3CP. KotC allows your AdMech detachments to use their faction bonuses (canticles and dosctrinas) if you bring Questoris Mechanicus knight. With addition of the Freeblade special rules for Imperium factions, KotC became irrelevant (and unusable in AoO)

 

I have just noticed, that it is an off topic. Going back to track - additional element to my wishlist: being able to take Questoris as LoW in AdMech detachment with some rule support (strats, superdoctrinas/subfaction bonuses, relics)

Edited March 2, 2023 by Madao

[Nagashsnee]

14 hours ago, Bouargh said:

 

Could not agree more, but some might argue that Knight of the Cog rule allows you to field serious fire power and artillery under the form of a knight Castellan... Covering the slot

Ordor reductor artillery. A knight is not artillery. There is more to warhammer then battlefield roles.

[brother_b]

I want simplified rules. Having doctrina and canticles needs to change. I know lore-wise why they split skitarii and cult but it’s too much. Same with basic/advanced modes on our abilities like Logi. Please simplify.

 

I do hope for something new. Why not? It keeps the army feeling fresh.

 

I would definitely enjoy a high toughness melee tank, but then we have kataphron breachers so I don’t know.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nagashsnee]

On 3/3/2023 at 6:23 PM, brother_b said:

I want simplified rules. Having doctrina and canticles needs to change. I know lore-wise why they split skitarii and cult but it’s too much. Same with basic/advanced modes on our abilities like Logi. Please simplify.

 

This, i had a game yetserday and there was not 1 turn where i did not have to basically go down a check list of what is being applied where and how. Between auras, doctrinas, canticles, logi, relics and auras. The other side was just 'i will take your word for it'  but i honestly was lost at times.  Add in  having your opponent having to remember what applies to where to plan his turn it was less then optimal.

 

Ork turn seemed so much more streamlined. 

[Ulfast]

Yes, I agree that it´s to much. In next codex/edition GW should make the army easier to use. 

[Bouargh]

As the new edition is now anounced, some preliminary features shared at Adepticon and on WarCom may progresively help us to have a more "accurate" estimate of impacts for our sociopatic mechanically-enhanced human warriors.

 

I guess that the AsMechs will be hit deeply by the so called "simplest not simple" motto and that many games mechanics will be affected, for good or something else.

 

1. We have a series of entries that were associated to other ones so that they did not use slots - brotherhood of the cog, servitors, datasmith. Of course this will be dropped...

 

2. With one folio (recto-verso) army rules, I guess many of the mess and combinations posible will cease. Simplification sure, but loss of character too? I´d like to imagne that this will be covered by some units rules or reactions. Admechs (as GSC if you ask me) will be great for these mechanics. BTW are strats and traits included in these 2 sheets?

 

3. Rule of 3... well, transvector may suffer from this, except if unit size pass from 1 to 2, mixing the benefits of point 1 hereabove mentionned (indirectly Sagitaur fro Leagues of Votann may be considered in the same context). But this leads to another though: flyers have been restricted in competitive games because they induced a bias in balance. wouls we have it revised back again or does it imply deeper changes in flyers rules???

 

4. Skitarii marshell is one of the character that has deepest interactions through auras, traits and data-tethe stuff. I really really wonder how he will be balanced. but at least the question of either Mago or Marshall becomes pointless, especially for people thta do like fielding lot of seers...

 

5. Will rule of 3 also apply to transports? generic question mark

 

6. Unit sized and options: I do not like the concept of datasheet on card, looks like to me a direct restriction of options so that the datasheet is a potential troyan to "play-with-the-box content" as it is... I am a little bit paranoid may be but may it be used to restrict unit size of vanguards or kataphrons for example? Is it a way for the so-called better balanced targetted? I do not think that a 3 riders strong Serberys unit is useful in instance. so if such a limitation comes, how do we manage it? I am especially puzzled as the datasheet shared for termagaunts DO NOT include any unit size info (unless I missed it)... So will a 20 strong Vanguard unit cease to be something playable?

 

7. What about Knights in AdMechs? I planned including one but I will wait and see... Maybe a definitive postponing depending on what will be released as new rules???

 

8. Actions: will they change so that it is possible to do someting with Kastellans robots in te respect of the current rule, or will it be dropped?

 

These points are more of doubts/concerned than of pretending predicting anything. But how do you see it? 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Bouargh
Edit

[Bouargh]

So, now that we have some teasers for various aspects of the game and that Warhammer Feast and its demo is coming closer, we will go from interpretations from snippets of info partially out of context to more concrete info. I guess we will have to wait for release to egt the full picture, except if the coming weeks are delivering us teasers for each force.

 

Yet, even if I am still making assumption what we have may lead to let me think that AdMech might:

- benefit from an assault ramp on the dunerider

- be with improved rangers and kataphons with the change introduced for Heavy Weapons

- may be get a strong incentive for Phosphor weapon if they keep their bonus against cover, canceling benefits of cover.

- be with deep rework of how all our characters work, mainly as the Leader stuff would apply baerly atm to data seer only... although Calculus is a great gunline squad leader.

 

What more do you see?

[Magos Takatus]

Personally I am worried that 10th edition will hurt Admech more than it heals. Twin Linked will gut the effectiveness of Ironstriders and the Archaeopter Stratoraptor and in particular the Twin Onager Phosphor Blaster could well be attacked from both sides with Twin-Linked being a potential nerf and with GW stamping out weapons with an AP value it might push an already rare weapon loadout into extinction.

 

I hope that the layers of buffs are toned down into a limited selection of powerful boosts so that rather than having to keep track of Doctrina Imperatives and Canticles of the Omnissiah  and the two levels of holy orders and limiting abilities to once per game. Hopefully there is a way to implement a range of buffs that still represent the lore without utterly drowning new players in several systems that all need to be used correctly for the army to function on par with other armies.

 

If the assault ramp rule is given to the Dunerider it and Phosphor weapons keep decent AP values I'd be delighted. I could launch some Hoplites up  the board quickly if the first was introduced. I'll eventually get some Electro Priests in there if that were the case.

 

I bet there will be cool things and constructive rebalances in the codex but I can't help but be concerned. I hope the rules to broadcast buffs to  nearby units remains since with the lore about the Noosphere provides a perfect excuse, I just hope that I it doesn't leave me with a headache. lol

 

[brother_b]

The more I hear about 10th edition, the more I’m been coming concerned that it will evolve into a super simplistic game, and we will lose things like being able to create a magos, logo, etc, some of the flavor…

 

I do think on the other hand there is a positive side, that would be hopefully getting simplified Canticles, and doctrina rules maybe even merging the two. We have a very difficult codex right now.

 

Either way, we will be stuck with 10th edition, so I’m going to try and focus on some positives.
 

It sounds like vehicles are going to be strong, I think we have some very powerful vehicles and options to build. From robots to onagers, I think we will have something that stands out.

 

I’ve also seen a lot of posts about potential mechanized transport spam. If we keep some of the same rules for our units, like arc weapons, we will have very strong anti-vehicle shooting.
 

And finally, we were one of the strongest armies in ninth edition, and got hit hard. I think some of the changes to boost the army post-nerf really helped, but it is an exhausting army to play.

 

I think this army has the potential to punche much higher than has actually been tabulated in tournament results. I just don’t think it’s widely played right now in tournaments,  and the people who are playing it or not “top-tier” tournament players, they’re usually fans. 

[Magos Takatus]

4 hours ago, brother_b said:

 I just don’t think it’s widely played right now in tournaments,  and the people who are playing it or not “top-tier” tournament players, they’re usually fans. 

That suits me to a T. I found trying to learn 9th with Admech was an uphill struggle so I'm certainly more a fan of the lore and the models than my personal prowess with them on the tabletop. I think I can project that I'll have 9th edition rules reliably under my belt by June time... 

 

I never tried Crusade games but the search for archaeotech to make a custom device looks like loads of fun, it's just a shame I'll probably never get to make use of it.

 

Once I've got my Aedari Escalation League completed I'll be at a crossroads between working on more Aeldari, Orks or back here. Barring a few random smaller projects on the backburner I'll probably be pushing hard to get more models on the tabletop rather than fussing too much over my best quality since my Pile of Shame is way out of control now and needs to be reigned in. Hopping back to Adeptus Mechanicus for 10th might be a good idea actually, I've got a start collecting box, an Ironstrider and a few issues of Imperium to chew through and part of me wants some Electro Priests to mess about with. By the time I've go0t that done there will probably be a nice range of 10th edition models to choose from.

[Bouargh]

So, Warhammer feast is almost done and we know a little bit more about 10th ed. Very little indeed, and may be even less as far as AdMech is concerned.

 

I did not catch any comment or info that may leave and specific clue and info is in fact limited to the codex roadmap.

The cybernetic sociopaths will be among the first served, at the begining of the roadmap. And while the rhythm of codex release will then speed up I wonder if being at the beginning when few released is scheduled has a meaning. I would like to think that this is because we might have new minis coming along the codex whereas others migh be stright rule release... But may be am I wishing awaken...

 

This, or the rework of the codex was more complex and required deep rework, which might make sense, seen how the rule shared so far implies a profound rework of the character support and interunit combination rules. As admMech was built on these concepts of synergies they may need a reforge of their mechanics. 

 

As ffar as  speculations are going on, I must say I am less cocnerned by the come back of the twinlink rule: the Ballistus Dread twin lascannon appeared NOT being twin linked, so I guess there is hope for the Dunecrawler and Kastellans with 2 gun fists... May be even our flyers and ironstrider may not be too declassed in the end... But I would not bet too much on these.

 

Is there anything / a piece of info or chat I missed?

[Mechanicus Tech-Support]

Abaddon's datasheet seems to be missing the black legion keyword, I wonder if Cawl may receive the same thing and not just be for Mars

[Bouargh]

4 hours ago, Mechanicus Tech-Support said:

Abaddon's datasheet seems to be missing the black legion keyword, I wonder if Cawl may receive the same thing and not just be for Mars

 

It might be the case... or Not. But a high probabilty Cawl would receive this treatment indedd..

 

As a counter argument, one might say that Guilliman got the Ultramarine FACTION Keyword, so it might still be possible that a Mars FACTION would be defined, although I highly doubt it will be the case. Forgeworlds specificities would IMHO better be covered by diferent Detachments rather than by specific keywords or unique units.