How do you foresee the future of AdMechs in the new Ed.?

[Bouargh]

Today´s faction focus - Astra Militarum might be a good clue of what to expect for AdMech

Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Astra Militarum - Warhammer Community (warhammer-community.com)

 

- Squad sizes to 20, but by "merging" boxed sets rather than by adding basic troop - 2 alpha leaders in a Skitarii unit maybe

- Same "do not get redundant special weapons n squads" rule, as in CSM legionnaires but also as in the last brew of the IG codex under 9th Ed.

- Interesting rule for Vox-Caster which might indicate a way uo for Data-Tether.

 

I can´t but hope that Skitariis will be anyway treated diferently, as I would not like seeing them being "only" augmented IG troopers. Wishing they keep they Invulnerable save... Wait and see.

[Madao]

We are in the next faction focus. I am optimistic that we will get some nice, flavourful rules

[Bouargh]

4 hours ago, Madao said:

We are in the next faction focus. I am optimistic that we will get some nice, flavourful rules

Are we? I missed that. Good to know we will have a little bit material to chat about. But probably not enough to stop speculating about all that will not be disclsed of course 

[Madao]

And now I am disappointed... Lost BS and Save on Skitarii... Detachment rule is situational (won't help much against aggressive armies such as orcs or tyranids). Now we are IG 2.0....

[Ulfast]

Yes this was not fun to read. Don´t wnt to throw around gloom but it seems we got worse in what matters and gained little. What where GW thinking?

[Bouargh]

15 hours ago, Madao said:

And now I am disappointed... Lost BS and Save on Skitarii... Detachment rule is situational (won't help much against aggressive armies such as orcs or tyranids). Now we are IG 2.0....

Sure, so I am. Sort of. 2.0 or 4.0...

As far as the battleline unit shown is concerned of course. But Rangers will probably get the same treatment, so, yep... IG like.

However we saw soooo few. And things that are disclosed are IMHO anything but representative of the whole army. I prefer staying optimistic... Or trying to.

 

About my main concern: well the back of the datasheet is sill a mystery: unit size, number of special wepaons per unit... a lot of stuff that are able to change many things (if vanguard unit size is 10-20 or instead 5-10 or just 10 point blank, or anythnig else, it will make huges differences imn terms of survivability (über-Glass canon effect amplified) and/or efficiency of unit combos promised).

 

What makes me optinistic ("always see the bright side of life" as in te blue grass song):

1. AdMech looks like it remains an army where combinations and synergies are key/part of the archetype. This is good in absolute as its part of the army´s character but its a specific part of the teaser that is barely presented (only stuff is about Sicarians). The "Synapse" like effect through Battleline units is a good and elegant way to promote the mechanism. Will Kataphrons be Battleline BTW?
2. We did not see anything representative in fact, as almost each unit is specific in the army and generalities from Vanguards are probably not going to be transposed in a straight forward manner to any (except Rangers), if they are transposed. For example, Electropriests being buffed by Skitariis presence is, well, an odd idea for me. Same with Kastellan Robots, even if here we could get a good idea that they will be more or less disconected from the Skitarii auras propagation effect.
3. Characters - they were a core part of the buffing mechanism before, how will they act and bahave now? Especially the Marshall who seamly lost his role of catalyst it used to get in the past. But Cawl Main rueles lines are promising if they presume of what will happen to the characters of the army.
4. Weapon wise: changes are few, and quite aligned with the rest of the nerfes applied to other gangs.

 

I am disapointing more because, in fact, we did not see anything rather than by the content disclosed itself... In a way a very good teaser leaving with more questions than answers

 

What makes me eventually annoyed is the road map. The army that will be delivered as free of charge material with the launch will probably be (very) close to the content of the codex to be released in winter (Is this the proper timing announced?). So what? Well, no second chance for us: if a whole picture sucks at launch, it will suck probably for a good while.

 

But I will stay optimist. Or try to.

Edited May 16, 2023 by Bouargh
swap from mobile to PC - then correction of tidal wave of typos

[Marshal Mittens]

3 different pistols merged to 1 with all the flavor removed.

 

3 different melee weapons merged into one profile and nerfed. 

 

The sniper rifles range heavily nerfed.

 

Shoot like guard.

 

Guard save.

 

Just really a LOT of strong nerfs and flavor removed. Honestly this has me kinda sad. I don't see any buffs really, and a lot of nerfs, in general, and a lot of loss of choice in unit building. 

[brother_b]

Simplified not simple……..

 

Sure feels really simplistic though, flavor missing with those weapons all combined. I think we’ll see much more of that for other armies too.

 

If we want to remain static then our guns gain heavy meaning +1 with no movement. That gets us back our 3+.

 

Could be an option if we move our vanguard forward in transports.

 

The main new bombardment rule for the army seems meh but can hurt armies trying to use “sticky” objective control to keep home objectives.

 

Cawl in all armies but what will our tech priests look like? I think they’ll get some of the same abilities but have to be added to a unit.

Edited May 16, 2023 by brother_b

[Madao]

The opponent decides per unit to take cover/stand firm, so they can take battleshock on everything but one unit designated to capture the 'sticky' objective. And then in T2 there is noone left in the opponent DZ. I would gladly take SoB one or the SM one, even if it is a little redundant with doctrina imperatives

[Bouargh]

On 5/15/2023 at 11:13 PM, Marshal Mittens said:

3 different pistols merged to 1 with all the flavor removed.

 

3 different melee weapons merged into one profile and nerfed. 

 

The sniper rifles range heavily nerfed.

 

Shoot like guard.

 

Guard save.

 

Just really a LOT of strong nerfs and flavor removed. Honestly this has me kinda sad. I don't see any buffs really, and a lot of nerfs, in general, and a lot of loss of choice in unit building. 

 

Pistols and Melées merged as a single perfile is no real surprise. It is the global treatment reserved to all/most. "Most" is here the disturbing word as, indeed, some armies, such as Votann f.e., kept 2 pistol types, and I guess that SM will follow the same trend as CSM legionnaires - getting multiple Pistols and HtH weapon options (even if some (but few) are merged into a single profile). Lack of consistency IMHO as goadtaser, power weapon and arc-mace were rather (quite) distincts and that their merging is quite game changing...

 

Transuranic range being reduced is not really a big deal, as 60" range was most of the time situational.  I do not remember any case where I exploited this feature but it is all relative as I play usually cover heavy table (almost city fight like). So I am not too sure my comment is relevant.

 

Guard perfile for shooting and saving + reduced inv. save. Yep, that sucks, especially as basic weapons as a whole through the teased datasheet, have not been decreased in efficiency so much  - lethality was an issue in 9th, and in 10th AdMech will still eat the train through its face and our troops will probably shatter even more than before under a bolt volley fire. Hard times ahead for footsloggers.

 

But in an 10th Ed that looks like being more vehicle oriented, I wonder how our mechanised pets will be affected (interestingly we do not field so much vehicles, it is a point to be discussed with the Fabricator General...). The Crawler will need serious buffs to be at the level of other tanks; or a serious point decrease; or being able to be fielded as Squadrons. And what about Knights (of the Cog)? This synergy is something we might see disclosed in the Imperial Knight teaser in a not too far future (or in the Dark counterpart...). This is a next Milestone I am waiting for. Might be interesting to field Dominus Class Knight with this Volcano Canon which profile was shown...

 

Crossing fingers, trying to stay optimist

Edited May 17, 2023 by Bouargh
Edition of tipos and additional precisions

[MagicHat]

The arquebus can now be considered for vanguard squads. This is a positive thing.

 

I would guess that with Cawl losing repair, Engineseers will be our only repairers, and probably also gives +1 to hit like the mek.

 

This gives more identity to the seer, at the cost of a bit of faction identity. 

 

 

[Bouargh]

So, Imperial Knights Faction Focus is now out and... Nothing. Plain zero about Freeblades/Knights of the Cog.

 

Deception.. Deception... Deception...

 

Edited May 18, 2023 by Bouargh
I enjoy these emoji so much...

[Magos Takatus]

Wow, since the Admech reveal it's really died in here and in the appropriate thread.  Here's hoping the Codex has some good news for us once 10th edition hits.

[Madao]

Well, I can either complain and be negative or be silent, so I have chosen the latter. I guess other people have the same approach.

 

Maybe someone sees something positive in the AdMech preview?

Edited May 20, 2023 by Madao

[Mechanicus Tech-Support]

To be honest the initial shock kind of killed my enthusiasm. But after thinking about it Im trying to wait for the full index/codex before going full doom n gloom.

 

Like who knows maybe with the whole synergy thing sticking a dominus or other priest near the skitarii will boost them with a +1 to hit or save, and we're back to normal
Actually veeery interested to see more of the whole well oiled machine synergy shtick gw has given us this edition.

 

positive take? uhhh rad bombardment would force armies that want to castle up and out shoot us to spend a turn or 2 moving to the midfield to not deal with the mws I guess 

 

Tl:dr waiting pensively

 

Edited May 20, 2023 by Mechanicus Tech-Support

[MagicHat]

I already mentioned that the arquebus is no longer a detriment for vanguards, which is neat. Means I might take the head of 2 rangers with arquebus that have no squad right now, and give myself the option to wield them with vanguards. The weapons showcased so far seems usable.

 

Our battleline troops buffing the rest of the force is nice, but they are also the slowest so... How do they keep up?

Duneriders is how, carrying our hopes, dreams and stubbers with 3A, rapidfire 3! Also flat out better then stormbolters, which is weird. 

 

The armyrule is fine.

 

A bit peeved that BSS retained BS4+ and Tau Pathfinders gained 4+Sv, but we wont know the full story until we see the datasheets. 

If our losses improves the balance of the game, then so be it. I am very much in approval of the idea put forth by 10th, the weapon rules in particular thrills me. Bit of a shame that they create this wonderful new weapon system and then scraps a bunch of weapon options into something bland and seemingly useless, but baby steps. I don't see myself bothering with the Alpha options for our battlelines sadly, and my first Mechanicus warlord ever will continue to lament the loss of Phosphoenix.

[Magos Takatus]

10 hours ago, Madao said:

Well, I can either complain and be negative or be silent, so I have chosen the latter. I guess other people have the same approach.

 

Maybe someone sees something positive in the AdMech preview?

I'm sorry if it seemed like I was inciting negativity, that's not my intention. I was merely hoping that the Codex might restore some of the flavour that the traditionally bland Indexes often cut out. I am concerned that interest in this forum, and the army in general is going to die out because of a few negative unveils. They weren't the news I was hoping for but maybe we will get more positive news shortly.

[Madao]

The thing that wonders me the most right now is how they will integrate the Cult Mechanicus units in the index detachment  - the preview was only about Skitarii (and Cawl). Will electro-priests depend on battleline? Will robots receive buffs from battleline/techpriests? Will kataphrons die from overcharged plasma?

 

One note about the rules - Rad bombardment strongly recommends the Protector imperative, as the enemy will probably leave the deployment zone as soon as possible

[brother_b]

I think GW is genuinely having a problem defining what our army is supposed to do. For instance the World Eaters charge and do melee, SOB have miracle dice, GSC are sneaky, etc.

 

What are we? Shooty infantry horde? Then what about the Kataphron?

Slave like lobotomized Kataphrons? Then what about vehicles?

 

Heavy tanks? Then what about the myriad specialized units like pteraxi, horse/dogs, sicarians, etc?

 

What about our robots? Flyers? Any mention of knights?

 

Too scattered, the question is what are we going to focus on? I would hope powerful vehicles and crazy weapons/technology befitting the faction that lore-wise makes ALL the other imperial factions’ stuff.

[Mechanicus Tech-Support]

2 hours ago, brother_b said:

*snip*

 

Too scattered, the question is what are we going to focus on? I would hope powerful vehicles and crazy weapons/technology befitting the faction that lore-wise makes ALL the other imperial factions’ stuff.

 

Stubbers, stubbers as far as the eye can see

 

But I agree with the lack of a defined army purpose, personally I would have liked to see biggish doomsday-like vehicles that need to be protected by chaff (anything not a priest/valuable tech ie. robits). Gives off the whole wacky and weird tech thats valued far more than the mortal servants or something like that..honestly I just want a minorus ordinatus to field

[Rogue]

As a positive - my wife is a very casual AdMech player, and was excited about the preview because the current level of codex complexity is really putting her off playing at the moment. Suddenly the army feels like it might be accessible again.

[Bouargh]

13 hours ago, brother_b said:

Too scattered, the question is what are we going to focus on? I would hope powerful vehicles and crazy weapons/technology befitting the faction that lore-wise makes ALL the other imperial factions’ stuff.

 

You read my mind. I am very in favour of archetypes, fighting styles defined by a design purpose and a specific tactical focus. As you said, sneaky GSC, Endless waves of tyranids... But as far as AdMech is concerned the Archetype was missing so far: glass canon is not an archetype (eventualy a counter balance for it) and Gunline neither was really that adapted as you mentionned for the profusion of units filling distinct roles (and there are at least 2 gunline armies already in the game, so a third one brings very few new stuff).

 

But where I may eventualy diverge is that this new brew looks like it is taking a distinct orientation, giving us a cooperative/combined arms temed army. Not really new in fact but at least clarified, assumed and cleaned up, or at least it is what may appear from the rule teaser. So a proper archetype with rules defined around it. Will it be enough? Time will say. As indeed some key challenges remain to be solved such as the disonances between units´ purposes and design in the current state of the codex were I cannot but agree more.

I am reasonably confident. I came to AdMech for the characterful design of the minis (Someone wrote here or there that Cawl has more character in its thumb than other armies in their whole range of miniatures. I may agree with this), may be I will stay for the game. 

[brother_b]

I also love the models and the idea behind the army, the lore. Flesh is weak, praise the machine!

 

I think we’ll get a buff to our save, likely the inclusion of the marshal or other character to the unit. Maybe a +1 save, and another type of buff. Something to bring us back towards the old save level. I think the problem was that in 9th you could get your basic troops up to 2+ save. It was ridiculous.

 

So I feel some sort of save mechanic will come back.

 

Rogue, I agree. Complexity was over the top. Im ready for easier, but I don’t want “simple”. I hope the balance comes through.

[Bouargh]

... And still nothing about a mechanism to field Knight as allied in an army: the focus for Chaos Knights do not disclosed any kind of cue we could use to estimate how it might work for AdMech.

 

Still have to demonstrate patience....

[MagicHat]

The transuranic arquebus is increasingly looking like a good choice, no bodyguard rules for intercepting, never really slows down the unit, and all attacks are precision. Could take out an IG character in one shot, and we do want to take out the primaris psyker before they cast their 4++. 

S7 AP2 is also enough to put some pressure on marine support characers.

 

Would be funny if the radium sniper ends up finally being a good choice!