Contemptors vs Castra Ferrum Dreadnoughts for long range support

[Lord Krungharr]

Struggling to choose which dreadnoughts to go with for my dual lascannon long range support with my infantry heavy Space Wolves.  I was thinking a pair of dual las dreads would be good, and with helical arrays for interceptor/skyfire if needed.  But which ones?  Contemptors have T7, but are like 50 points more IIRC. 

 

Box Dreads are Legacy units, so wondering if they'll be around in the future for legit use?  HH moves slowly it seems, so hoping that's not even an issue.

 

Any opinions?  My only bias towards Box Dreads are the Wolves kit comes with some other awesome bits I could use for cool conversions for Age of Sigmar actually.

 

Or should I just say to Hel w Dreadnoughts and make some Heavy Support squads to keep it infantry?!

[MichaelCarmine]

If you want firesupport, i'd choose a Castra, best "bang" for it's buck.

I'm using one myself amongst the other Dreadnought-chassis for my Raven Guard. Best investment ever!

He has the exact same output as the Contemptor Mortis, but is small enough, that you can even hide him behind a Rhino.

And even on this small Dreadnought chassis, he still has a 2+/5++.

 

Regarding HSS Squads - 

A HSS with 5 Lascannons (5 Wounds) and Augury Scanner comes in at 160 pts.

A Castra (5 Wounds) with Twin Dual las and Helical comes in at 185 pts.

 

For that 25 pts difference you get BS5, Fearless, essentialy Relentless, Skyfire, T6, 2+/5++ over the HSS.

It's also 5 wounds, also "heavy" (reroll armor vs. Blast) and can also intercept for free.

It can move, shoots every Turn until it is destroyed and cannot be pinned.

 

Also - it doesn't require a precious HS-Slot and can be taken in a Talon of 3!

 

Only thing a HSS has on it - at the Start (until the first casualty), they have 5 shots, although be it BS4, instead of BS5...

 

So i'd choose a Castra Ferrum ofer a HSS any day! =]

 

Edit: As @SkimaskMohawkwrote, the castra is, in fact, even T6 and not T5! My bad. =]

Edited March 8, 2023 by MichaelCarmine

[Lord Krungharr]

Well that's a solid argument, thank you!  I missed the Heavy part, and glad to know that it has a benefit besides not being able to run . 

I also see now I can take a searchlight for 5 pts.  With night fighting, I think that's probably worth taking too.   

 

My Elites will be full with Apothecarion and Terminators so a Talon 2 or 3 will be nice. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

Mathwise the output of 5 BS4 shots and 4 BS5 shots are the same. 

 

IMO the castra is better than the contemptor for ranged support because it matches the output, with only a small dip in durability for 40+ points difference. If the castra had t5 then it'd be a lot more vulnerable to some of the heavier weapons, but t6 still allows it to tank basically all the quality weapons.

 

[Lord Krungharr]

I picked up 2 Castras from the Troll Trader (1 w double las, 1 w double ac but easy to magnetize).  Plenty of wolfy decorative bits from the Bloodclaw kits I have to make them Space Wolves.  I considered some Space Wolves ones but I felt the austere boxiness of the classic version was more appropriate for some reason...and they already have double guns!

[Gorgoff]

This is my answer:

Bought Björn as well and will play them as a pair.

One with a searchlight, one with helican array. 

[Lord Krungharr]

WoW, those old Forgeworld Castras are the best!  I always liked them better than most of the Legion Contemptors too.  The Iron Warriors Castra is one on my hunt list too.

[Brother Sutek]

My Dark Angels use the old model with its original weapons, lascannon and missile launcher. I also use a double lascannon one.

 

[RoadRunna]

I regularly run two boxdreads with duel lascannons in my backline.  They can also take searchlights (which Contempters can't) so they can light up targets across the board for the rest of the army to shoot at.  At T6 they can take hit after hit at pretty much the same 'to wound' roll as the more expensive Contempter and can only be insta-killed by a Vindicator.

[bluedestiny]

They can't be insta killed, they only take D3 wounds instead thanks to the shielding rule. So bonus!

[Gorgoff]

2 hours ago, bluedestiny said:

They can't be insta killed, they only take D3 wounds instead thanks to the shielding rule. So bonus!

Three wounds instead of ID.

[Mandragola]

Castra Ferrum do seem good in this role, on paper at least. They’re more vulnerable to ID but it’s fairly unlikely to happen to them if they’re hanging back. 
 

They pay 20 points for a tracking array, which makes it less of an auto-buy than it is for a shooty contemptor. The searchlight is great though. 

[Gorgoff]

6 hours ago, Mandragola said:

Castra Ferrum do seem good in this role, on paper at least. They’re more vulnerable to ID but it’s fairly unlikely to happen to them if they’re hanging back. 
 

They pay 20 points for a tracking array, which makes it less of an auto-buy than it is for a shooty contemptor. The searchlight is great though. 

And the can hide behind a Rhino. 

[Brofist]

 

I ran this bad boy in 10 games of Zone Mortalis, with either twin plasma or plasma + lascannons. In terms of overall killing, he under-performed for me in most games, but the area denial he created made him an important part of my list. Boxing units into rooms or keeping them out of hallways let the rest of my army do work.

 

Box dreads definitely have a place.

 

 

 

[Gorgoff]

7 minutes ago, Brofist said:

 

I ran this bad boy in 10 games of Zone Mortalis, with either twin plasma or plasma + lascannons. In terms of overall killing, he under-performed for me in most games, but the area denial he created made him an important part of my list. Boxing units into rooms or keeping them out of hallways let the rest of my army do work.

 

Box dreads definitely have a place.

 

 

 

Two big templates, no?

[Brofist]

Yep! I paired it with a vox re-roll.

 

Gets hot :cuss:ed me a few times, as did generally poor rolling with the lascannons (I felt that lack of twin linked), as well as only being able to fire snap shots as reactions in ZM. They can't run, so I had two games where he was not relevant most of the game due to being out of position or spending all game running away from something. Still, in my list he had a place, and I would run him again over a contemptor. I took him for area denial and fire support, which he did for a pretty low points cost. The rest of my list did the bloody business.

Edited March 16, 2023 by Brofist

[Heir of Sigismund]

12 hours ago, Brofist said:

 

I ran this bad boy in 10 games of Zone Mortalis, with either twin plasma or plasma + lascannons. In terms of overall killing, he under-performed for me in most games, but the area denial he created made him an important part of my list. Boxing units into rooms or keeping them out of hallways let the rest of my army do work.

 

Box dreads definitely have a place.

 

 

 

Where are those lights from?

[Brofist]

Those are from a goliath rockgrinder

[Squark]

The tricky bit these days is that Forge World no longer makes left arm guns for dreadnoughts. Hmm.. if one cut off the fist from the basic dreadnought kit, could the contemptor's lascannon be fitted to the joint?

[Cleon]

I don't think the Contemptor lascannons would be a good fit for a castra ferrum. they are the wrong size and shape. If you could find a second Castra Ferrum twin las you could probably mount them in the missile launcher arm (assuming you had the basic kit not the venerable).

[MichaelCarmine]

4 hours ago, Squark said:

The tricky bit these days is that Forge World no longer makes left arm guns for dreadnoughts. Hmm.. if one cut off the fist from the basic dreadnought kit, could the contemptor's lascannon be fitted to the joint?

 

[Galron]

Also the option of fairly simple 3D printing a left arm by mirroring the right. Been reading this thread going, wow, box dreads are great, where are people getting them? Then smacked my forehead I remembered I own a 3d printer. Was about to go to ebay or amazon. Might get lucky and even find some free legion specific files.

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

I never think to use a Castraferra Dread...but as an anti-aircraft unit can be real good. Cheap, easy to hide...the problem is to get weapons for a mortis configuration.

I thinking to get one with twin linked autocannons or las cannonsand helican array.

[MichaelCarmine]

Well, its the best AA for its points in the whole game =]

A flyer comes on the table turn two within 48" of a Castraferrum with dual Gravis-Las and it gets 4 Str.9 ap2 shots with BS5, Sunder and ignoring any "Evades" or general Shroud saves.

On average thats a destroyed Flyer, maybe outside of an overpriced Caestus *sad crying noices*, Thunderhawk or Stormeagle.

 

I'll have atleast one for every Legion i play.

I'll even consider taking two for my Iron Warriors and leaving the Contemptor at home, 'cause when taking dual Gravis-Las, you get the same damage-output for 50pts less (40pts when both get Helical) and atleast 30pts, when compared to other weapon-loadouts and, as said previously, other than a contemptor, it can take a Searchlight.

 

Only "real" downside imo, is that they are more fulnerable against Instand Death. 2 Wounds with ID will destroy it.

 

Liked them in 1st edition HH, love them in 2nd edition HH. =]

 

[Gorgoff]

I can only agree. I played my Mortis Castaferrum with two autocannons throughout 1ed and it did really well. For 2ed he will get two gravis lascannons though because it is so good right now. 4 S10 shots at any vehicle or dreadnought is just plain awesome. Thinking of adding two. This way I can go out without the otherwise mandatory Heavy Support Squad with Lascannons.