WH40k game Indomitus Terminators

[spessmarine]

3 hours ago, Slips said:

I think the Imperial Fists Terminator Praetor is actually in-scale with these new Terminators.

yellow boys 5 steps ahead

[Hfran Morkai]

11 hours ago, Xirix said:

I'm not sure why people are thinking these will be 3 in a box, it would be madness to take a boxset of an existing size and then replace it with less models. I'm under the impression this is just a sneak peak preview and we'll see the rest of the sculpts closer to 10th edition, just because they only showed two here and there weren't five in the cinematic doesn't necessarily mean anything.

I get a lot of the newer bigger things come in 3 as has been pointed out, but those units didn't actually replace anything that existed. I know GW make some bizarre decisions sometimes, but there's no way they're stupid enough to not have at least what's in the current termie box.

 

Were, were you around for Cadian Shock Troopers and Dire Avengers?

 

[Chapter Master Valrak]

5 hours ago, Mumeishi said:

Cringe…. Begging for subscribers …

 

M. 

I think the banter was lost on you 

[-DonCorleone-]

3 hours ago, sitnam said:

Not sure about the heresy models, but I think the Chaos terminators are fine. Death Guard are pretty bulky. The Scarab Occult are a good height, but a bit thin. Both are way better then the current loyalist kit

If they're about the size of Chaos Terminators, they should be about the size of Blightlord(at least the ones that come with Lord Felthius) and Space Marines Heroes. I expect Scarab Occult and Heresy Tartaros to be less bulky than Indomitus, as Tartaros pattern is designed to be that way. But I'm hoping that they're close to same with from eye to eye point of view with normal marines.

[darkangels91]

6 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

 

Oh don't. New Cataphractii would break my bank.

 

However, they were in the new HH boxed set so I guess they won't.

Cataphractii has been here since HH betrayal at Calth box dude. 8 years they been in plastic. 

Edited March 24, 2023 by darkangels91

[darkangels91]

6 hours ago, mecanojavi99 said:

We know GW designs models several years in advance, so most likely this Terminators were always planned.

 

Not to mention that looks like we are getting even more Gravis characters since we saw a Gravis Apothecary in the trailer.

 

To be honest, I have always felt that Gravis is more a replacement for Centurions than Terminators.

The pattern that the Aggressors wear, definitely. But Gracie is cool to me, I love it. It’s a nice balance between standard power armor/mk x and full blown terminator. It gives more protection than standard less than terminator while still allowing for more mobility than terminator. 

[darkangels91]

8 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

Something I've not seen anyone has speculated on... since we have new Terminators does that mean we'll end up with new Terminator special characters?

 

I loved the Calgar in Terminator armour, so seeing a new version over that Gravis armoured one would be big for me.

 

I'm sure there are folk who'd like to see a Lysander too.

This is most likely the reason they haven’t redone any terminator characters yet, and why the put Calgar in his own special gravis armor. 

[darkangels91]

7 hours ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

@Sword Brother Adelard

That’s fluff not lore. The codex states he has the Armor of Heraclus. 
 

The Armor of Heraclus is a suit of MkX Gravis.  It was stated as such when they released the model, if you want to call it fluff cool. But guess what it’s also lore and rules. His keywords in both editions state MkX Gravis.

[darkangels91]

14 hours ago, Evil Eye said:

These are fantastic looking sculpts. No silly extra details or redesigns, just good, proper Terminators in a better scale. Top marks GW, you did good there. Also glad they decided they can be Firstborn or Primaris; it means both sides are pleased and also gives credence to the theory they're doing away with the tabletop distinction between the two "breeds" of Marine. I hope.

 

Now let's hope they do the same with their power-armoured brethren so we can have Mk. VII armour in the better scale and it can be handwaved as "Marines can wear either mark of armour"!

 

(Also I might need to order a box of the old ones for my Middlehammer Marines project, as they're all in the old scale!)

This is the way it always should have been. Becuase our decades of lore have always stated that First born and thus their armor have always come in varying sizes. Some marines being barely taller than “tall” men and others dwarfing the average height space marine.  They just wrote themselves into a hole with bad lore and rules when they introduced Primaris.

 
Lore true to the OG decades worth of writing would have first born are average height x and Primaris are average height x but some first born are equal to and larger than Primaris and vice versa.

 

MkX being so adaptable and having variants within itself shoudl be compatible to all firstborn. MkVii being older should have been stated as no longer in production and thus you wouldn’t see Primaris in it as they get new kit, but you of course would still see first born in it as it’s passed down or maintained and repaired. 

[darkangels91]

14 hours ago, Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla said:

This way they will be more precious to us.

If they reduce them to 3 in a box then they’ll reduce their data sheets to 3-6 same as they’ve done with almost every other elite or fast attack, but my money and fingers crossed are on them staying 5. 

[darkangels91]

14 hours ago, Eptesicus said:

Love them. Exactly what i wanted for my Primaris army and I'm glad i resisted the urge to buy the current kits.

 

I do think these will look too big for first born armies though, so i wonder if they will keep the existing smaller Terminator kits going for scale comparison.

False, if you know anything about the actual lore and fiction of terminators then you know the scale was always way off. Even before Primaris became a thing there was a desire for new terminator sculpts to be truescaled.  They will look brilliant alongside forstborn. They’ll be as they always should have been, massive and imposing. They’ll actually look better along firstborn than Primaris in my opinion. 

[darkangels91]

14 hours ago, Bryan Blaire said:

Well, given that these can specifically be used by all Astartes, there is zero reason from this particular release to believe that GW is going to just bin an entire line of models they still produce - maybe folks should just sit back and stop speculating, we’ll know when the classic Astartes line is going away/gone.  At this point, it looks like they have at least this Edition as a continuation of use - we’ll know if that holds true upon release.

 

If people really do have an issue with a scale discrepancy against older models though, they can just keep using the older Terminators (unless GW introduces a rule in the new edition that states you must use the absolutely most recent production of models of a certain unit, or you can’t use them in the game), or use Horus Heresy scaled Marines alongside these new ones.  You could even use the old Terminators alongside Primaris models or Horus Heresy Marines properly equipped going forward, if you wanted to, you aren’t even required to buy these new models if you don’t like the looks of them.

lol the problem is, there is no scale discrepancy. Any one who knows the actual lore and fiction of space marines knows that even before Primaris existed the terminators models were always extremely poorly scaled next to the firstborn space marine models. The scale they are now is they scale they always should have been.  Prior to Primaris existing there were loads of players who dreamed of new upscaled terminators. 

[OttoVonAwesome]

1 hour ago, darkangels91 said:

If they reduce them to 3 in a box then they’ll reduce their data sheets to 3-6 same as they’ve done with almost every other elite or fast attack, but my money and fingers crossed are on them staying 5. 

I didn't see a Sgt in the video so if it's only 3 in the box I'm geussing it's some kinda understrength unit type situation and prolly have a datasheet for it in the forces pamphlet that usually accompanies these things. I'd also imagine sprue space would be the excuse for this not something like reducing squad size it would'nt jive with chaos terminators or relic terminators and it certainly incentivizes people to buy the new box.

Edited March 24, 2023 by OttoVonAwesome

[appiah4]

15 minutes ago, OttoVonAwesome said:

I didn't see a Sgt in the video so if it's only 3 in the box I'm geussing it's some kinda understrength unit type situation and prolly have a datasheet for it in the forces pamphlet that usually accompanies these things. I'd also imagine sprue space would be the excuse for this not something like reducing squad size it would'nt jive with chaos terminators or relic terminators and it certainly incentivizes people to buy the new box.

 

Look closer (hint: on the right)

 

 

There is a sarge and they are 3-strong.  In fact you can only see 2 in this shot (Assault cannon guy is dead).  So it's 3-strong Terminator squad, + Librarian + Captain.

Edited March 24, 2023 by appiah4

[Nephaston]

7 minutes ago, appiah4 said:

Look closer (hint on the right)

 

 

There is a sarge and they are 3-strong.

The rightmost one? Could be, but he's lacking both the red helmet and the red skull that the sternguard-ish sergeant has. Which I can absolutely believe the animators could have forgotten.

[jimbo1701]

In terms of squad size I wonder if we will see a squad size of 3-6 for terminators to fit with modern convention. This obviously wouldn’t stop anyone from fielding existing 5 man units but would impact on blob squads of things such as deathwing knights. Very happy to be wrong. 

Edited March 24, 2023 by jimbo1701

[Nephaston]

Maybe, Then again there might be datasheet shenanigans where one variant of army gets them in threes, while something like a 1st company list might get 5-mans.

 

Or we're all reading way too much into it, but htat's half the fun.

[Tonius]

Termies are my favorite 40K minis: this upscale of the new models, keeping the classic design is great news !!!

[Eptesicus]

2 hours ago, darkangels91 said:

False, if you know anything about the actual lore and fiction of terminators then you know the scale was always way off. Even before Primaris became a thing there was a desire for new terminator sculpts to be truescaled.  They will look brilliant alongside forstborn. They’ll be as they always should have been, massive and imposing. They’ll actually look better along firstborn than Primaris in my opinion. 

 

Got to disagree. If everyone is so hung up on the anatomy of the original sculpts, then they would rightly have reservations on how big the human inside is, reflected in the model. They still have arms and quite clearly have feet/armoured boots.

 

They should be barely much taller than the equivalent marine, and their arms, legs and foot to head distance should be roughly the same size etc. Granted they will be slightly taller courtesy of thicker armour in the soles and obviously the higher all round back armour.

 

The original terminators obviously had stupid arms coming out of their heads, but the scale looked correct (next to the marines).

 

GW look to have got it spot on with how the new ones look in relation to a Primaris marine scale wise. They will not look realistically like the same sized human as a first born though (compared to a tactical marine).

 

This is unless of course you think they have their feet facing downwards in the bottom part of the leg, and their entire boot/foot is just mechanical.

Edited March 24, 2023 by Eptesicus

[Fallen11]

Tbh. gotta love wearing tactical dreadnought armor for maximal protection, and then not wearing helmet just so you can die from some random stray shot xD
 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Fallen11

[Eptesicus]

1 hour ago, jimbo1701 said:

In terms of squad size I wonder if we will see a squad size of 3-6 for terminators to fit with modern convention. This obviously wouldn’t stop anyone from fielding existing 5 man units but would impact on blob squads of things such as deathwing knights. Very happy to be wrong. 

 

Unfortunately, i think this might be quite likely. 3 - 6 seems to be the new standard for elite/veteran units etc, and it is worrying that the video essentially showed a squad of 3.....

 

However, if there is only going to be one datasheet for Terminators (whatever model is used), that is likely going to annoy a lot of people with existing 5-10 man squads of them.

[OttoVonAwesome]

5 minutes ago, Eptesicus said:

 

Got to disagree. If everyone is so hung up on the anatomy of the original sculpts, then they would rightly have reservations on how big the human inside is, reflected in the model. They still have arms and quite clearly have feet/armoured boots.

 

They should be barely much taller than the equivalent marine, and their arms and legs should be the same size etc.

 

The original terminators obviously had stupid arms coming out of their heads, but the scale looked correct (next to the marines).

 

GW look to have got it spot on with how the new ones llook in relation to a Primaris marine scale wise. They will not look realistically like the same sized human as a first born though (compared to a tactical marine).

I always pictured it like Fallout power armour where the feet aren't in the feet and the hands aren't in the hands only adjustable for the size of the pilot wich also explained why a marine would need special training to wear it since it's not as simple as just a suit of armour. By contrast though I pictured Tartaros as being smaller and in scale and just a suit of armour rationalizing it cuase it's faster and more manueverable and likely easier to operate wich is kinda wierd but that's my brain.

[Eptesicus]

1 minute ago, OttoVonAwesome said:

I always pictured it like Fallout power armour where the feet aren't in the feet and the hands aren't in the hands only adjustable for the size of the pilot wich also explained why a marine would need special training to wear it since it's not as simple as just a suit of armour. By contrast though I pictured Tartaros as being smaller and in scale and just a suit of armour rationalizing it cuase it's faster and more manueverable and likely easier to operate wich is kinda wierd but that's my brain.

 

I suppose that is one way of thinking about it. I have always thought that in both normal marines and Terminator armour, their foot is in the feet, and their hand is in the gauntlet (except for power fists, which would obviously have something similar to what you describe - but this makes sense as there is room for a hand to sit in their and move with controls going to the larger fingers etc).

 

Obviously in the "The Armouring of a Space Marine" video released by GW, it is very obvious that an intercessor's hand is in the gauntlet and their feet is in the boot. I imagine that Terminator's are supposed to be the same, but i guess there isnt a video showing one of them getting dressed!

[lhg033]

My main/only issue with these new terminators is that they've not painted as Deathwing! actually this even more given they've previewed the Lion and also are stealing our Mortis Dread loadout in the trailer too! 

 

Seriously good work here GW. Keeping the classic look with a slight scale increase. Old terminators may look a bit small but are still going to fit in and be perfectly serviceable so I dont personally feel my 50+ DW are going to be 'squated' by these. If anything a box or two of these will make good character options within what I already have.
 

[StraightSilver]

If you compare the 2 'Gaunt datasheets, one is obviously a slimmed down one for the box that includes Ripper Swarms and the other is the full "Codex" datasheet - or at least that's my take on it.

 

So the launch box probably has unique datasheets that allow you to play with the minis straight from the set that may include understrength units with modified rules.

My guess is that the Termis in the box will be push-fit and spread across the sprues which is why there may only be 3 of them, but the multi-part kit will have 5.