WH40k game Indomitus Terminators

[tangoalphatwo]

15 hours ago, Triszin said:

So my converted gravinators should almost blend in

Go on…?

[WARMASTER_]

19 hours ago, Bradeh said:

The Space Marine Heroes releases were really good quality, shame they were so limited. 

It was really great seeing what they could do with FB sculpts! Also unfortunate they weren’t a MP kit or even just Mono pose rather than Push fit as they’re much easier to convert 

Edited April 1, 2023 by WARMASTER_

[Cleon]

14 hours ago, DutyBeforeAll said:

Curious if they will add more ranged options to Terminators like the Plasma Cannon Deathwing get?

Grav or melta could be cool.

I'd like to see combi weapons be more available and I'd love other power weapons (axe etc) to be included in the kit as standard, but I wouldn't say no to another heavy weapon option or two.

[Kastor Krieg]

23 hours ago, Brother Captain Arkley said:

Fact is there is fluff of bigger than normal marines.

Not just that Pasanius of the Ultramarines until recently used a bastardised suit of Terminator armour. He now wears MkX and he isn't Primaris.

Or this Primarch-slapping gigachad.

[Noserenda]

Plus quite a few 30k Praetors are hilariously big too :D 

[Slips]

4 hours ago, Noserenda said:

Plus quite a few 30k Praetors are hilariously big too :D 

Yeah Im basically going to be buying these terminators, scraping off the crux's and using them for 30k but first thing I'll be doing is side-by-sideing them with my IF Terminator Praetor to see if the wasnt a subtle hint at terminator rescaling this whole time.

[spessmarine]

9 hours ago, Noserenda said:

Plus quite a few 30k Praetors are hilariously big too :D 

Imperial Fists were up to speed with Primaris-ing and got a 10k year headstart on it

[jaxom]

On 3/31/2023 at 8:56 AM, Khornestar said:

From the article linked above:

 

 

Not thrilled that the new loyalist suits are slightly bigger than the chaos version, but it’s not an absurd difference the way it is compared to the current/old loyalist terminator kits. Plus, they’ll look great amongst my primaris-only Templars.

 

Can’t wait to see the assault squad. 

It looks to me like a little bit of extra height on the base (1 mm polystyrene) would probably even out the Chaosnators with the new Terminators.

[Marshal Reinhard]

Think these were seen in a trailer. but nice to see them properly lit and photo'd

[Wispy]

On 3/31/2023 at 5:56 AM, Khornestar said:

From the article linked above:

 

 

Not thrilled that the new loyalist suits are slightly bigger than the chaos version. 

Worshipping chaos stunts your growth, clearly, that's how the daemons tempt them into possession.

 

Seriously tho, I said it earlier, but its clear their priority was the loyalist line's scale be consistent with itself rather than worry about what another line is doing. If the intercessor is the basic building block the whole army is scaled around, then they're saying 'the terminator must be this big compared to an intercessor.' even though the marine isn't necessarily primaris, the models are scaled that way.

[OttoVonAwesome]

The Chaos Terminators are inscale with the Space marine Heroes line however I'm going to point out again that the Chaos guys are all in wide lurching poses and that costs them in height when doing comparisons like this (Compare the squatting Mark 6 to the walking ones). The new Terminators are more upright and they took the time to fix thier anatomy, bulked out a bit more and raised thier neck line. It's less a problem of scale and more a problem of style. Poor guys deserved better.

[appiah4]

ITT: 40K scale is completely out of whack.  This is something I saw on 40K tables ever since I returned to gaming.  I don't play 40K anymore but I look over and the scale difference between models is astounding.  It's only going to get worse going forward it seems.  Why GW can't pick a scale and stick to it is beyond me.  They don't need to upscale things to make them anatomically proportionate.  There are a lot of games that are testament to this.  Now we have 28mm,  30mm, 32mm and 35mm scale models on the same table and it's absolutely absurd.

Edited April 3, 2023 by appiah4

[Fire Golem]

14 hours ago, OttoVonAwesome said:

The Chaos Terminators are inscale with the Space marine Heroes line however I'm going to point out again that the Chaos guys are all in wide lurching poses and that costs them in height when doing comparisons like this (Compare the squatting Mark 6 to the walking ones). The new Terminators are more upright and they took the time to fix thier anatomy, bulked out a bit more and raised thier neck line. It's less a problem of scale and more a problem of style. Poor guys deserved better.

Yeah I think it’s a shame. I wouldn’t mind if they were just a bit smaller, I just think the Chaos terminators look worse than the loyalist ones now. I wasn’t massively impressed with their update already to be honest, they were a lot less of an improvement over the old ones than the Chaos Space Marines were over theirs. 

[Petitioner's City]

36 minutes ago, appiah4 said:

ITT: 40K scale is completely out of whack.  This is something I saw on 40K tables ever since I returned to gaming.  I don't play 40K anymore but I look over and the scale difference between models is astounding.  It's only going to get worse going forward it seems.  Why GW can't pick a scale and stick to it is beyond me.  They don't need to upscale things to make them anatomically proportionate.  There are a lot of games that are testament to this.  Now we have 28mm,  30mm, 32mm and 35mm scale models on the same table and it's absolutely absurd.

 

But does it really matter?

 

More so, (for example) vehicles have never been correctly scaled, nor (especially) weapons, to the bodies interacting with them? The basic building blocks of the hobby have always been out of scale, and at any one time there have been multiple scales operating simultaneously - if you collected in the 90s, you had 80s and 90s models in different scales being used together; in the late 90s into 00s, you had three "periods" together, etc., and it's only stretched and twisted more since.

 

Essentially what you are suggesting is that GW should never have left their rogue trader/3rd edition wfb scale and we should be much closer to a 1980s 20-25mm scale? *

 

However, Warhammer is the work of multiple sculptors, multiple artists, multiple eras - it's not a realistic representation of its fictional battlegrounds or worlds, not an attempt ever to be a "photograph" of the far future. The visual collage that exists in scale, armament, painting and other real world aspects is just part of the mediality of a miniature game, composed of a multitude of parts (including the desires and skill of the hobbyists as much as the miniature sculptors, paint makers, terrain makers, etc).

 

* I am curious - do newer MESBG minis (originally contractually required to not be compatible with late 90s Warhammer miniatures) still get produced in a 25mm scale, or have they got larger?

[Marshal Reinhard]

I'd actually like to claim the scale has gotten a lot better lately. Take a look at all the human factions with recent models - admech, sisters, guard. They're pretty much perfectly in line with each other? Towering over them we have marines and custodes which is at it should be. Different sized bases? Who gives a toss?

[ZeroWolf]

12 minutes ago, Petitioner's City said:

 

But does it really matter?

 

More so, (for example) vehicles have never been correctly scaled, nor (especially) weapons, to the bodies interacting with them? The basic building blocks of the hobby have always been out of scale, and at any one time there have been multiple scales operating simultaneously - if you collected in the 90s, you had 80s and 90s models in different scales being used together; in the late 90s into 00s, you had three "periods" together, etc., and it's only stretched and twisted more since.

 

Essentially what you are suggesting is that GW should never have left their rogue trader/3rd edition wfb scale and we should be much closer to a 1980s 20-25mm scale? *

 

However, Warhammer is the work of multiple sculptors, multiple artists, multiple eras - it's not a realistic representation of its fictional battlegrounds or worlds, not an attempt ever to be a "photograph" of the far future. The visual collage that exists in scale, armament, painting and other real world aspects is just part of the mediality of a miniature game, composed of a multitude of parts (including the desires and skill of the hobbyists as much as the miniature sculptors, paint makers, terrain makers, etc).

 

* I am curious - do newer MESBG minis (originally contractually required to not be compatible with late 90s Warhammer miniatures) still get produced in a 25mm scale, or have they got larger?

From what I'm aware, the LotR stuff is still at the same scale, but obviously not 100% as I've got a fleeting curiosity about the game.

[appiah4]

2 hours ago, Petitioner's City said:

 

But does it really matter?

 

More so, (for example) vehicles have never been correctly scaled, nor (especially) weapons, to the bodies interacting with them? The basic building blocks of the hobby have always been out of scale, and at any one time there have been multiple scales operating simultaneously - if you collected in the 90s, you had 80s and 90s models in different scales being used together; in the late 90s into 00s, you had three "periods" together, etc., and it's only stretched and twisted more since.

 

Essentially what you are suggesting is that GW should never have left their rogue trader/3rd edition wfb scale and we should be much closer to a 1980s 20-25mm scale? *

 

However, Warhammer is the work of multiple sculptors, multiple artists, multiple eras - it's not a realistic representation of its fictional battlegrounds or worlds, not an attempt ever to be a "photograph" of the far future. The visual collage that exists in scale, armament, painting and other real world aspects is just part of the mediality of a miniature game, composed of a multitude of parts (including the desires and skill of the hobbyists as much as the miniature sculptors, paint makers, terrain makers, etc).

 

* I am curious - do newer MESBG minis (originally contractually required to not be compatible with late 90s Warhammer miniatures) still get produced in a 25mm scale, or have they got larger?

GW never did 20-25mm scale for 40K or RT, they were true 28mm and remained around that scale until 3E when the power armored figures grew to a "heroic 28mm", more or less 30mm - Terminators followed suit in 4E IIRC.  This "heroic 28mm" then creeped towards proper 32mm around 5/6E, and to 35mm around 8/9E.  What you are suggesting is definitely NOT true.  Particularly not in the case of Terminators:

 

 

Moreover, ME/LOTR games have always been 28mm.  They still are.  Their figures look miniscule compared to what 40K became.

 

Also, to make a point of how outrageously oversized Space Marines are today compared to 28mm scale:

 

 

And no, this creep was not to done to represent how big the average marine is to the average Imperial Guard.  As you can see, Imperial Guard has also been drinking a lot of milk:

 

 

And to answer your question, Does it matter?  Personal taste.  To me it looks weirdass, but more importantly it's a big reason why I play other games where scale creep is not a planned obsolescence strategy, and it makes me feel better as a customer.

 

On the bright side, you will be able to use your JoyToy and McFarlane action figures in 40K in a couple decades, so there's that..

Edited April 3, 2023 by appiah4

[Joe]

I wouldn't say MESBG is still true 28mm - the range has been growing noticeably larger as time has gone on (at least since The Hobbit range started), to the point that releases like the Ruffian Leaders are the same scale as modern Necromunda kits like the Orlock range. @Lord Marshal and I had a conversation along these lines on Discord late last year when the subject of the new Easterling releases came up.

 

But we're getting off-topic now. I'm looking forward to converting the Indomitus Terminators for Heresy! \o/

[WARMASTER_]

17 hours ago, Wispy said:

Worshipping chaos stunts your growth, clearly, that's how the daemons tempt them into possession.

 

Seriously tho, I said it earlier, but its clear their priority was the loyalist line's scale be consistent with itself rather than worry about what another line is doing. If the intercessor is the basic building block the whole army is scaled around, then they're saying 'the terminator must be this big compared to an intercessor.' even though the marine isn't necessarily primaris, the models are scaled that way.

I honestly feel like the Chaos terminator scale and stance was a deliberate choice, in Jes Goodwin’s sketchbook designs he noted the Chaos Terminators should have a “Squat, Raw power” I also think them being hunched over works with the trophy racks. 
 

If we also add in the fact that their scale isn’t even consistent was their own range as the Havocs are huge next to them [+had the same release date] It would seem to me it was a way of differentiating between loyalist and traitor 

[Fire Golem]

The Kasrkin are, from what I’ve seen, pretty massive compared to the new regular guardsmen for some reason or another. Not the best example for the current human scale. 

[Redcomet]

I am not bothered by scale differences. Modern GW minis have far better proportions, which matter a lot more to me than a mm here and there in height difference 

[appiah4]

20 minutes ago, fire golem said:

The Kasrkin are, from what I’ve seen, pretty massive compared to the new regular guardsmen for some reason or another. Not the best example for the current human scale. 

Are they the exception, though?  Or is the whole 40K range slowly 'crossing the rubicon' and getting rescaled to 35mm?  I'm leaning towards the latter.

 

  

3 minutes ago, Redcomet said:

I am not bothered by scale differences. Modern GW minis have far better proportions, which matter a lot more to me than a mm here and there in height difference 

This is a terrible excuse.  Proportions are not related to scale.  Corvus Belli makes heroic 28mm figures that are fantastically proportioned.

Edited April 3, 2023 by appiah4

[Marshal Reinhard]

54 minutes ago, WARMASTER_ said:

I honestly feel like the Chaos terminator scale and stance was a deliberate choice, in Jes Goodwin’s sketchbook designs he noted the Chaos Terminators should have a “Squat, Raw power” I also think them being hunched over works with the trophy racks. 
 

If we also add in the fact that their scale isn’t even consistent was their own range as the Havocs are huge next to them [+had the same release date] It would seem to me it was a way of differentiating between loyalist and traitor 

I would have thought the deliberate choice, if any, was to be scale consistant with their power armored chaos brethren, but perhaps not given your havoc observation

[Fire Golem]

1 hour ago, appiah4 said:

Are they the exception, though?  Or is the whole 40K range slowly 'crossing the rubicon' and getting rescaled to 35mm?  I'm leaning towards the latter.

 

  

This is a terrible excuse.  Proportions are not related to scale.  Corvus Belli makes heroic 28mm figures that are fantastically proportioned.

Well if all the other recent human models are a similar size, which they seem to be (including the new guardsmen that came out at the same time as the Kasrkin), then yes, that would make them the exception by definition, no?

 

Corvus Belli has also had scale creep/inconsistency. (The bottom photo are all the same unit, and the two rightmost in that photo were released within like a year of each other). 
 

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by fire golem

[Brother Captain Vakarian]

1 hour ago, appiah4 said:

Are they the exception, though?  Or is the whole 40K range slowly 'crossing the rubicon' and getting rescaled to 35mm?  I'm leaning towards the latter.

 

  

This is a terrible excuse.  Proportions are not related to scale.  Corvus Belli makes heroic 28mm figures that are fantastically proportioned.

Yea, Kasrkin are definitely the exception. 
 

Also, I love CB and Infinity, but until very recently when they dialed the range in with 3D modeling, their scales have been pretty inconsistent and even wacky. There have been nearly endless flame wars on their official forum over certain models within a faction being out of scale with the rest of the faction despite being released around the same time. And, while I’m more generous to CB than to agree with this statement, their switch to 3D modeling can smack of “planned obsolescence” too. 
 

Long story short, GW seems to have settled on a consistent scale—this actually seems to be a common point among a lot of miniature manufacturers that has been enabled by 3D modeling and wasn’t really possible if you were using multiple hand-sculptors before. 

 

Edit: while I was typing, fire golem added photos of the exact discrepancy with CB's model scale I was mentioning!

Edited April 3, 2023 by Brother Captain Vakarian