WH40k game Indomitus Terminators

[Arkangilos]

11 minutes ago, The Unseen said:

Umm... No thanks. I'd rather not have to roll or watch my opponent roll multiple different weapon profiles from his basic troop squad every time.

… they do that with literally every other unit in the game. 
 

Eh, I see what you are saying. Just wish listing but in the past some weapons had pinning, and I think automatic weapons like the autobolter should have pinning. I also don’t mind people having to roll for different weapon profiles. 
 

Also the auto bolter could just add dice to regular ones, so you would have… say 7 shots rather than 5.

Edited April 5, 2023 by Arkangilos

[Marshal Reinhard]

1 hour ago, Arkangilos said:

I wish they would just make it so rather than the whole squad going same weapon, you’d have 1 autobolter per five men, one grenade launcher, and one heavy bolt rifle or whatever per five men. I’m biased, but the tactical flexibility of a Team Leader, Grenadier, Automatic Rifleman, and Rifleman is pretty good. 

 

The autobolt rifle would provide more shots, the bolt rifle have better range, and the heavy bolt rifle being the one with -1 AP. Though personally I did like when all bolters had AP of some degree (though I can understand why they lost it).

If you lesser astartes wanna do that, that'd be fine with me, on primaris crusader squads im literally locked to ABR's only though 

[Arkangilos]

1 minute ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

, on primaris crusader squads im literally locked to ABR's only though

“Zeal covers a multitude of tactical sins” (Sigismund 23:7) ;)

Edited April 5, 2023 by Arkangilos

[lhg033]

Liking what I have seen so far.

 

I do like the idea that standard weapons may have different profiles for the units that have them. This could factor in things like guard with bolt weapons not having rapid fire (though I expect they will) as they couldnt handle the recoil, or if they do they have lower strength shots to factor in having to use 'lighter' versions.

Anti-XXXX seems a good move too.
 

There is definitely a balance to be had between allowing variety with supporting rules and streamlining. I think going back to just power weapon is a good thing. I assume force weapons will be the same. 

 

It seems with this core rules will be generic but army/unit profiles will be more tuned and what will take a bit of learning but that works for me and seems more thematic. I like it.

 

[Closet Skeleton]

Fire Warriors and Necron Warriors being ap-1 when other basic infantry aren't isn't going to be bad for the game, its only silly when literally everyone is AP-1 or better except for Chaos Marines and Sisters.

 

Making basic troops unable to hurt armoured units won't make the game less lethal it will just mean basic troops never appear. Lethality has always been just as much about player choice as it was about rules design.

 

Intercessors can't just have boltguns without making them straight up worse than Tactical squads. Not that I'd complain too much if I had to rebuilt my intercessor squads after the release of an upgrade sprue that just lets them take special and heavy weapons and gets rid of the Intercessor/Tactical divide.

 

Universal special rules are okay as long as there are less than 10.

Edited April 5, 2023 by Closet Skeleton

[Xenith]

12 hours ago, Lemondish said:

This might be a bit of a stretch, but I suspect Bolter Discipline goes away. Here's why I think that...

 

Right now, in the context of how rapid-fire weapons work, Terminators always fire 4 shots at the storm bolter's maximum range due to the Bolter Discipline part of the Angels of Death ability.

 

One would think, given the design intent here, a Storm Bolter emulating this would just show 4 attacks without any special rule like rapid fire applied.

 

That would be an indication that Bolter Discipline isnt going away! If Bolter discipline was baked into the sheet by making it a 4 shot weapon, then the rule could go away, however the SB is still rapid fire, so it might be there. Or might be gone as part of the rebalancing. BD was only introduced to bump the power of marine shooting as they were falling way behind in 8th until the second codex came out. 

[Kallas]

20 minutes ago, Closet Skeleton said:

Intercessors can't just have boltguns without making them straight up worse than Tactical squads. Not that I'd complain too much if I had to rebuilt my intercessor squads after the release of an upgrade sprue that just lets them take special and heavy weapons and gets rid of the Intercessor/Tactical divide.

A 'Tactical' upgrade sprue for Intercessors with various special and heavy weapons would be a major step in removing the divide and let people play what they like, rather than there being an arbitrary distinction.

 

If they don't do that, which I honestly don't see happening but it might, then it will come down to what options are available for the units, their abilities and their cost.

 

Terminators seem to indicate a significant reduction in stat differences (ie, they have 3A Power Fists for both 'Firstborn Terminators' and 'Primaris Terminators') so it's possible that the troops get rolled together and have them operate similarly, but they're also likely to get separate Datasheets where Intercessors will probably have some kind of stat or ability to make them different to Tacticals. What that would be is anyone's guess.

 

19 minutes ago, Xenith said:

That would be an indication that Bolter Discipline isnt going away! If Bolter discipline was baked into the sheet by making it a 4 shot weapon, then the rule could go away, however the SB is still rapid fire, so it might be there. Or might be gone as part of the rebalancing. BD was only introduced to bump the power of marine shooting as they were falling way behind in 8th until the second codex came out

Yeah, personally I expect to see BD gone simply because it was a band-aid to help improve Marine damage output, but with other factions' damage scaled back too, Marine output is probably on par so BD isn't needed. Hopefully, anyway, as it was one of those rules that helped, but in a way that was so minor as to not matter much anyway.

[Orange Knight]

I imagine the Oath of Moment rule will be variable from detachment to detachment.

 

For example. in one detachment it could unlock Bolter Discipline, in another it could be a bonus to charge rolls.

[TrawlingCleaner]

=][= Back to Terminators folks, Primaris Bolt rifles and their comparison to Bolt Guns have little to do with the conversation here =][=

[LostTemplar]

I hope that the Terminator kit has all heavy weapon options.

Based on previous GW stance of not releasing a unit without options if there is no model, I hope the 3 heavy weapons are included on a multipart kit later on.

 

As well as a sergeant helmet with the targetter!

 

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by LostTemplar
Terminators

[Orange Knight]

 

 

Anyway back to Terminators as has been suggested. We have one datasheet in a vacuum and we can't gauge how others will look.

Edited April 5, 2023 by TrawlingCleaner
Removal of Off-topic

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

It's a great datasheet though. I'm pretty happy with the Terminator stats at least in comparison to the other two we've seen, and power fists going up to 3+ to hit is a big win. Having Fury of the First baked into their sheet is also a big win, so I'm really looking forward to reading today's articles about faction rules and Oath of Moment.

 

That might be where the extra pip of AP has gone. Having it applicable to one unit per round would be a lot less crazy than applying it to all of our weapons of a catogory like old doctrines, if they want to rein it in.

 

I'm also intrigued by everything we've seen about reactions. Really looking forward to a breakdown on those, or people's reports after Warhammer Fest.

[CL_Mission]

With GW showing some love or old or nostalgic models like the Screamer Killer coming back I'd love it if they bought back the targeter array hand for the Cyclone Missile launcher. I doubt they would but I think it looks neat and I love painting sensors and optics like that.

Edited April 5, 2023 by CL_Mission

[Orange Knight]

Honestly the Power Fist hitting on a 3 was the nicest upgrade for me after the toughness boost and the stronger invul. Makes these guys feel very elite.

 

Over the last 10 years or so the Assault variant has been superior to the point of making the Tactical variants redundant. They need to re-balance them. Perhaps the Thunder Hammers can hit on a 4, but still deal 3 damage.

 

 

[KnightofSigismund]

7 hours ago, Lemondish said:

I mean, outside of one particular build for Hellblasters, you could always just say it's variations on the standard weapon, customized by each Astartes to their specifications, but otherwise not distinct enough for special rules. Gives you an in-universe reason for your Intercessors to have multiple different types of rifle.

 

I just build my Hellblasters with both the backpacks and that crazy assault scope and just call them whatever I need for that list. I've never mix and matched so it's never been a problem. I just think it looks cooler. But I digress.

 

this is genius.

[jaxom]

2 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

I imagine the Oath of Moment rule will be variable from detachment to detachment.

 

For example. in one detachment it could unlock Bolter Discipline, in another it could be a bonus to charge rolls.

Oath of the Moment is faction-based and does not change. I think that's why Fury of the First interacts with it; Adeptus Astartes Terminators can only be taken in an Adeptus Astartes army so Oath of the Moment is always there. The detachment rule (which would change if in a different detachment) is not shown on Terminator data slate; I would assume because it does change. We know from articles one detachment ability is Combat Doctrines, but we don't know what it does yet other than it "allows you to pick from three powerful doctrines during your Command phase." I would assume one of the options is related to shooting. I wouldn't be surprised to see Bolter Discipline become something on the Intercessor data slate to help differentiate them from Tactical Squads.

[Lemondish]

5 hours ago, Xenith said:

That would be an indication that Bolter Discipline isnt going away!

I'm not sure that's the case, since it would go against the purpose of this simplification. Why introduce yet another layer for these rules when this new design would have allowed it to function exactly like that without having to add anything on top?

 

Did I mention the theory was very thin haha?

Edited April 5, 2023 by Lemondish

[Xirix]

Hmm, the more articles I see with the new Terminators the more I hope that the models, particularly the Sergeant, can be somewhat easily assembled without the tactical rock skateboard he's standing on, that might be fine for one model, but it's going to stand out really fast once you have a full squad of 10 or multiple squads. Dunno what GW's obsession with forced scenery on bases is lately.

[Marshal Reinhard]

I'd wager it's molded to the legs almost certainly

 

This is not a full kit release, its ETB models in an edition starter box. Temper your expectations after that. You're not meant to get two sets to make a full squad, unless you really want to 2 perfect mirror halves.

 

A full kit will be coming later.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

7 minutes ago, Xirix said:

Hmm, the more articles I see with the new Terminators the more I hope that the models, particularly the Sergeant, can be somewhat easily assembled without the tactical rock skateboard he's standing on, that might be fine for one model, but it's going to stand out really fast once you have a full squad of 10 or multiple squads. Dunno what GW's obsession with forced scenery on bases is lately.

Helps make ‘epic’ or ‘heroic’ poses.

[Lemondish]

5 minutes ago, Xirix said:

Hmm, the more articles I see with the new Terminators the more I hope that the models, particularly the Sergeant, can be somewhat easily assembled without the tactical rock skateboard he's standing on, that might be fine for one model, but it's going to stand out really fast once you have a full squad of 10 or multiple squads. Dunno what GW's obsession with forced scenery on bases is lately.

Traditionally, these types of models are part of starter sets and the like and you're much more likely to have one set of 5 from the starter set and supplement with the multipart kit usually released later. I don't expect this will change much here.

 

Of course, that doesn't stop any particularly aggressive collector's from investing early in an army of these 5 models lol

[OttoVonAwesome]

32 minutes ago, Xirix said:

Hmm, the more articles I see with the new Terminators the more I hope that the models, particularly the Sergeant, can be somewhat easily assembled without the tactical rock skateboard he's standing on, that might be fine for one model, but it's going to stand out really fast once you have a full squad of 10 or multiple squads. Dunno what GW's obsession with forced scenery on bases is lately.

It became a meme and now GW does it just to troll.

[jaxom]

2 hours ago, OttoVonAwesome said:

It became a meme and now GW does it just to troll.

I think the community has itself to blame. For so long people put their HQs on cork and garden rocks to make them look bigger.

[Marshal Reinhard]

Finally, a black paint scheme

[CL_Mission]

The blue on the Iron Ravens looks superb. Thinking of painting these guys in a mostly black scheme, probably Consecrators.