WH40k game Indomitus Terminators

[Marshal Reinhard]

1 minute ago, Eptesicus said:

 

Do you think a new 40K Land Raider is really on the cards? I mean the Repulsor is the Primaris Land Raider effectively. I'd be surprised if they did an updated kit of the Land Raider for 40k.

Genuinely don't know. I think the whole marine vehicles will be repulsor based going forward, is cool on paper. I like the idea conceptually, i think it makes sense to differentiate marine and guard vehicles in such a way too. I don't dislike repulsors either, in the way that some people do. But they don't overly enthuse me either.

 

The Land Raider is 40k's most legendary tank however, more so than the rhino and its variations more so than any of the guards different armor. More so than tanks more powerful than it. Its also very storied. The edict from the Emperor that Land Raiders may only be used by Astartes going forward, springs to mind. 

 

Between a new Land Raider and a Repulsor crusader, I'm not sure what I'd prefer. If I'm getting a LR, it will invariably be new kit, so either a Proteus or Spartan. Or if they manage to make a new pulsor type that really clicks with me. If it's the former, it'll be for exclusive use of my upcoming terminators.

[Mr. Oddity]

59 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Honestly, the only comparison I want to see now is between the new terminators and Abbadon. When he first came he essentially ruined all existing terminator sculpts for me in one fell swoop. Everything else instantly came up short in comparison. Honestly the new termies might also do so still, but they appear to be close enough that they don't look wrong.

 

And they're the best normal terminator models bar non to date. Now if we could also get a new land raider model to go with... Tempted just to get a proteus or even Spartan instead otherwise.

 

@Marshal ReinhardAsk and ye shall receive. Adjusted for tactical rock.

 

Edited April 8, 2023 by Mr. Oddity

[Preliminary Bombardment]

40 minutes ago, Mr. Oddity said:

 

@Marshal ReinhardAsk and ye shall receive. Adjusted for tactical rock.

 

 

Much better fit. Abbadon now looks like a larger than normal Astartes who's been in the warp too long, not literary twice the size 

[Mr. Oddity]

Agreed. The scale reminds me of Nemeroth compared to Titus - larger than you would expect due to size/warp shenanigans, but not overwhelmingly so.

[Nephaston]

Why a Land Raider or Repulsor when it could be time for a grav Spartan?

And I shall dub it... Propulsor!

 

On a more serious note a repulsor with an assault ramp would also be fine.

[Blindhamster]

Quite like that lol

[SkimaskMohawk]

So about the AP discussion a few pages ago.

 

Does anyone else remembered when 8th dropped and bolt rifles had no AP, stalkers had ap 1, and AP was generally way lower? The initial complaint was that chaf models had gained way more durability while heavily armoured stuff had lost it. This was combined with some really terrible points values and resulted in the initial conscript+commissar spam (before it was FAQd), brimstone horror spam (kinda strong for different reasons, though super low points and invul save are components, also FAQd), and eventually the "death flower" list of abaddon, typhus, cultists and poxwalkers (also also FAQd).

 

GW makes a lot of mistakes and repeats the same things every few years. Id be very cautious about lowering AP if the points aren't right for horde units, since we can point back to when it was done poorly.

[Nephaston]

19 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Does anyone else remembered when 8th dropped and bolt rifles had no AP, stalkers had ap 1, and AP was generally way lower?

Auto bolt rifles were assault 2 24" AP0 d1,

Bolt rifles were rapid fire 1 30" AP-1 d, and stalker bolt rifles were heavy 1 36" AP-2 d1 if I recall correctly.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

25 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

So about the AP discussion a few pages ago.

 

Does anyone else remembered when 8th dropped and bolt rifles had no AP, stalkers had ap 1, and AP was generally way lower? The initial complaint was that chaf models had gained way more durability while heavily armoured stuff had lost it. This was combined with some really terrible points values and resulted in the initial conscript+commissar spam (before it was FAQd), brimstone horror spam (kinda strong for different reasons, though super low points and invul save are components, also FAQd), and eventually the "death flower" list of abaddon, typhus, cultists and poxwalkers (also also FAQd).

 

GW makes a lot of mistakes and repeats the same things every few years. Id be very cautious about lowering AP if the points aren't right for horde units, since we can point back to when it was done poorly.

 

They might have been AP 0 for 7th and the Index, but I seem to recall them being AP -1 from at least the time of the first codex. Granted, it has been long enough and there have been enough re-releases and FAQs that I could be misremembering. I don't have those PDFs in front of me right now.

 

What I do remember is the comparison of Guard vs Marines. Volume of fire vs saves, point costs, and so on. And while this could potentially be an issue again, the base Marine stat being 2 wounds, and terminators being 3 wounds, has made the math harder to screw up quite so badly.  

[Lemondish]

21 minutes ago, Nephaston said:

Auto bolt rifles were assault 2 24" AP0 d1,

Bolt rifles were rapid fire 1 30" AP-1 d, and stalker bolt rifles were heavy 1 36" AP-2 d1 if I recall correctly.

This is correct.

[Nephaston]

22 minutes ago, Marshal Valkenhayn said:

 

They might have been AP 0 for 7th and the Index, but I seem to recall them being AP -1 from at least the time of the first codex. Granted, it has been long enough and there have been enough re-releases and FAQs that I could be misremembering. I don't have those PDFs in front of me right now.

Bolt rifles were introduced in 8th alongside primaris marines. And in 7th bolters were AP5.

 

The bolt rifles as we know them now were an early errata, even before the codex 2.0 in 8th, roughly after the first codex but before BA/SW/DA got their codecies and were still using index rules.

 

found it.

Edited April 8, 2023 by Nephaston
added link

[jaxom]

29 minutes ago, Marshal Valkenhayn said:

 

They might have been AP 0 for 7th and the Index, but I seem to recall them being AP -1 from at least the time of the first codex. Granted, it has been long enough and there have been enough re-releases and FAQs that I could be misremembering. I don't have those PDFs in front of me right now.

 

What I do remember is the comparison of Guard vs Marines. Volume of fire vs saves, point costs, and so on. And while this could potentially be an issue again, the base Marine stat being 2 wounds, and terminators being 3 wounds, has made the math harder to screw up quite so badly.  

All the math and charts about how combat doctrines impacted lethality.

[SkimaskMohawk]

1 hour ago, Nephaston said:

Auto bolt rifles were assault 2 24" AP0 d1,

Bolt rifles were rapid fire 1 30" AP-1 d, and stalker bolt rifles were heavy 1 36" AP-2 d1 if I recall correctly.

 

1 hour ago, Marshal Valkenhayn said:

 

They might have been AP 0 for 7th and the Index, but I seem to recall them being AP -1 from at least the time of the first codex. Granted, it has been long enough and there have been enough re-releases and FAQs that I could be misremembering. I don't have those PDFs in front of me right now.

 

What I do remember is the comparison of Guard vs Marines. Volume of fire vs saves, point costs, and so on. And while this could potentially be an issue again, the base Marine stat being 2 wounds, and terminators being 3 wounds, has made the math harder to screw up quite so badly.  

 

Yea woops, was misremembering the stats myself lol.

 

Good call on the improved marine wound (and other stuff like terminator/ork toughness) doing more to help survivability.

 

But still. Every time gw has touched a games damage/survivability output they've managed to screw it up. It happened in 8th, happened in 9th, and happened in 2nd heresy

[spessmarine]

The consequence of rend as opposed to all-or-nothing is that it is harder to punish certain save values. If you want the 5+ save of the chaff to worsen, then the 2+ or 3+ save of the durable dudes suffers too, but it hurts the latter more.

So you have to cut back on the rend or blow up the wound counts.
 

[Marshal Mittens]

7 hours ago, Preliminary Bombardment said:

 

Much better fit. Abbadon now looks like a larger than normal Astartes who's been in the warp too long, not literary twice the size 

 

I thought in the Lore Abbadon was as tall as Horus? Like he is an exceptionally big boy, to the point its been speculated he might be a clone of Horus?

Edited April 8, 2023 by Marshal Mittens

[Wispy]

I wonder what a new Arjac model would be scaled at. would the 'Man-Mountain' be as big as Abbadon? He was just a piece of concept art before his model came out, but it showed Chaos Space Marines heads coming up just above his waist. When the model came out 6 months later in Wave 2, the size of it disappointed.

[Scribe]

1 hour ago, Wispy said:

He was just a piece of concept art before his model came out, but it showed Chaos Space Marines heads coming up just above his waist.

 

"Artistic License."

 

:D

[TrevorLoLz]

3 hours ago, Marshal Mittens said:

 

I thought in the Lore Abbadon was as tall as Horus? Like he is an exceptionally big boy, to the point its been speculated he might be a clone of Horus?

He wasn’t as tall as Horus - I believe they compare Horus’ height to the Mournival (which includes Abaddon) in Horus Rising.

 

He’s definitely a big unit, and looks a lot like Horus, but he’s not Primarch sized. There are other really big Astartes in HH, like Alexis Polux.

[darkangels91]

12 hours ago, Preliminary Bombardment said:

 

Much better fit. Abbadon now looks like a larger than normal Astartes who's been in the warp too long, not literary twice the size 

Ok but Abaddon canonically is also massive and dwarfs majority of his brothers. He was too large to fit into Cataphractii which is the largest of the terminator plates so Mechanicus custom engineered him an Indomitus pattern suit that would bit him. 

[Yodhrin]

On 4/9/2023 at 2:45 AM, darkangels91 said:

Ok but Abaddon canonically is also massive and dwarfs majority of his brothers. He was too large to fit into Cataphractii which is the largest of the terminator plates so Mechanicus custom engineered him an Indomitus pattern suit that would bit him. 

And that's now what he looks like. But then I've always been a grumpy git who didn't care for the "Ork Rulez" tendency for BL characters and HQ models - at some point you get big enough that your Black Crusades will come to an abrupt halt because you can't fit through the door to your objective.

[spessmarine]

3 minutes ago, Yodhrin said:

And that's now what he looks like. But then I've always been a grumpy git who didn't care for the "Ork Rulez" tendency for BL characters and HQ models - at some point you get big enough that your Black Crusades will come to an abrupt halt because you can't fit through the door to your objective.

 

the stairs broke before the guard did

[Splog]

Anyone else share the forlorn hope that you don’t have to give the sergeant a power sword?

[ZeroWolf]

13 minutes ago, Splog said:

Anyone else share the forlorn hope that you don’t have to give the sergeant a power sword?

You probably don't have to in the multipart kit but you're stuck with it for the monopose ones in the starter.

[Lysimachus]

32 minutes ago, Splog said:

Anyone else share the forlorn hope that you don’t have to give the sergeant a power sword?

 

I reckon (with the CC arms in particular) you could use the older TDA bits? The scaling is much closer on that area, and you aren't losing quite as much detail as you would on the new Stormbolters.

 

Hmm, that could be a good way to include a chainfist or two in the squad?

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by Lysimachus

[Redcomet]

1 hour ago, Splog said:

Anyone else share the forlorn hope that you don’t have to give the sergeant a power sword?

This launch box squad is a stamdard one. Not a massive disaster