Siege of Cthonia Campaign Book

[Gorgoff]

I may add this little screenshot feom the announcement 

Is this one of the new characters?

[OttoVonAwesome]

Back mounted boltgun. Nice. I kinda wonder if this might not become a feature of a future redo of Phalanx wardens. I've seen 3-d printed backpacks for them that have this and it was such a great idea to wysiwyg thier wargear and just feels like a Fists thing with Tor Garadon having the same thing going on with his grav gun.

[Brother_Angelus]

HH2 newbie question: Was the Decurion tank character they mentioned included in HH1? If so, what did they do?

[SkimaskMohawk]

18 minutes ago, Brother_Angelus said:

HH2 newbie question: Was the Decurion tank character they mentioned included in HH1? If so, what did they do?

 

Kinda.

 

You could take a rite of a war (which got rolled into armoured spearhead in 2nd) that gave +1 BS and reroll failed morale within 24" to all infantry. In 2nd it's the +1 BS but with a 5+ invul instead.

 

But on top of that, many squadrons could take a command tank upgrade regardless of rite. This gave the squadron a 4+ to ignore crew shaken, and also the entire squadron tank and monster hunter if they were all able to shoot the target of the unit (like all in range/no split fire). 

 

It could also be something like what the iron hands tank commander did (a character that didn't make the edition transition). He have all tanks +1 on the damage table when ramming,  and his own tank bs5 and tank hunter. And that could have been a superheavy.

[bushman101]

6 hours ago, Mr Farson said:

 

Basically mass produced infantry, they're used as cannon fodder by legion's. As the heresy goes on more and more of them are used. In the chtonias reckoning book the majority of the forces are mass augmented from the local population. During the siege of terra its remarked that they're worth less than the Armour they wear

Ouch.

Sounds like Guard stats with a power armor save, to me (thats speculation). Hopefully they will be worth taking.

[Noserenda]

Inductii varied a lot in quality, most WW2 games have a mechanic for unreliable troops where some of their skill/leadership stats arent set until after deployment and then you roll on a chart. Could be fun to find out if your guys are the greenest rookies on the block, mediocre or barely controlled murder engines :D 

[Gorgoff]

I say they will have lower WS an BS and morale. 

[MARK0SIAN]

I think it would be cool if the Inductii had some sort of rule like if the veteran sergeant leading them is killed then they will only target the closest unit and have to declare a charge against the closest unit if able, sort of like the programmed behaviour rule that automata get. 
 

It shows they’re not experienced/trained enough to select the best targets and hot-headed enough to just charge, even when it may not be a good idea.

Edited March 25, 2023 by MARK0SIAN

[Lord Marshal]

I don't expect they'll go too crazy with them. WS/BS 3 and LD6, maybe with Support Squad and a RoW which removes it, gives them Line but you can't take more of other Troops than you have Inductii.

 

Edited March 25, 2023 by Lord Marshal

[Doghouse]

I really like the idea of the Inductii, such a characterful concept reflecting the desperation of the conflict. 

[Doghouse]

I was just thinking how interesting it would be if the Inductii process replaces the regular Legionnaires creation leading into the Scouring and that process becomes the foundation for making modern Astartes. That would set the Astartes of the Great Crusade apart along with the veterans of the long war. I know it's not likely due to the flaws in the process but would be an amazing reveal.

[Mr Farson]

27 minutes ago, Doghouse said:

I was just thinking how interesting it would be if the Inductii process replaces the regular Legionnaires creation leading into the Scouring and that process becomes the foundation for making modern Astartes. That would set the Astartes of the Great Crusade apart along with the veterans of the long war. I know it's not likely due to the flaws in the process but would be an amazing reveal.

 

From the shape of the legion's by the time of the siege I would imagine that great Crusade era veterans are in pretty short supply. I think there's a pretty good chance that the majority of the legion's are inductii during the siege and by the scouring only command elements are from prior to the heresy

[lansalt]

32 minutes ago, Doghouse said:

I was just thinking how interesting it would be if the Inductii process replaces the regular Legionnaires creation leading into the Scouring and that process becomes the foundation for making modern Astartes. That would set the Astartes of the Great Crusade apart along with the veterans of the long war. I know it's not likely due to the flaws in the process but would be an amazing reveal.

That's supposed to be the case with the traitors, but after the war the loyalists did the opposite and made the process longer and more careful. The breaking of the legions and the Codex set the decades long process we see in 40k. Only in rare cases they speed up recruiment and induction to full battle bother (like the Crimson Fists after they were decimated by orks)

[SkimaskMohawk]

The original rules for Inductii only came with Surlak, where they were actually called "augmented Inductii" and tacs received +1 str, 6+ FNP, -1 BS and couldn't score.

 

The augmented part is probably the +1 str and 6+ FNP, leaving the actual Inductii at a basic tac profile with bs3 and no scoring. Assuming that translates to both tacs and despoilers and has a points reduction to make reflect their lesser stats, I have to ask "why would you ever take these?".

 

Melee has gotten way more decisive. A blob with 20 chainswords in 1st killed more ws5+ 2+ save models than they do now. Despoilers and tacs are basically only worthwhile for their ability to sit on objectives; what's the point of a volume of attacks unit that can't deal with anything but power armour and is only good for attacking? Bubble wrap? Unlocking better support units like recons? 

 

Going back to their 1st Ed iteration, the lack of scoring was compensated by being able to have 5 str 6 attacks each on the charge, rerolling all hits and 1s to wound. 10 could wipe a terminator unit on average.

 

 

 

[Noserenda]

Yeah the old World Eater inductii were brutal, fought hordes of them a few times! (Turns out if you make troops fun, people enjoy them :P ) 

They may go into the evolutions of marine recruitment, though really post heresy recruitment was as much about picking the right candidates and taking some time over them rather than implanting anyone who itd likely work on during the Crusade and especially heresy,

[Hungry Nostraman Lizard]

On 3/24/2023 at 5:36 AM, OttoVonAwesome said:

Decurion's getting rules again is nice.

Is this basically the Master of Armor remade?
 

[Noserenda]

2 hours ago, Hungry Nostraman Lizard said:

Is this basically the Master of Armor remade?
 

No they are in the list already :D These should be some Centurion equivalent.

[dickyelsdon]

The fan made supplement Liber Centura has rules for Inductii, they wrote them as WS3/BS3/LD6, Support Squad and with a veteran sergeant to keep them straight without the need for an IC to babysit them. The main benefit was very cheap for big (20-30!) man squads.  I wonder if the offical rules will follow a similar idea.

[Gorgoff]

15 minutes ago, dickyelsdon said:

The fan made supplement Liber Centura has rules for Inductii, they wrote them as WS3/BS3/LD6, Support Squad and with a veteran sergeant to keep them straight without the need for an IC to babysit them. The main benefit was very cheap for big (20-30!) man squads.  I wonder if the offical rules will follow a similar idea.

Although I highly appreciate their work I couldn't find a reason to play their version of the inductii. 

WS3 means they won't hit anything in CC and they were just to expansive for what the brought to the table. I hope that Inductii will have lower BS and a rule showing that they are savages with no grasp of tactics and discipline without making them useless. I mean they have to be worth taking without making despoilers useless. No line rule is a given here I guess.

[dickyelsdon]

25 minutes ago, Gorgoff said:

Although I highly appreciate their work I couldn't find a reason to play their version of the inductii. 

WS3 means they won't hit anything in CC and they were just to expansive for what the brought to the table. I hope that Inductii will have lower BS and a rule showing that they are savages with no grasp of tactics and discipline without making them useless. I mean they have to be worth taking without making despoilers useless. No line rule is a given here I guess.

 

Yep. Max squad seemed the only useful application.  But regardless of whatever nuance of rule they get, the key role for them is clearly going to be as a wall to clog/block the opponents path.

[SkimaskMohawk]

42 minutes ago, dickyelsdon said:

The fan made supplement Liber Centura has rules for Inductii, they wrote them as WS3/BS3/LD6, Support Squad and with a veteran sergeant to keep them straight without the need for an IC to babysit them. The main benefit was very cheap for big (20-30!) man squads.  I wonder if the offical rules will follow a similar idea.

 

Ya as gorgoff said, the unit is bad as written there.

 

240 for 30 with chain weapons can charge 200 points of 20 despoilers and lose combat. 

 

They don't score, they don't fill compulsory slots, they can't get Legion specific gear, they don't have heart, fury, or spite. Can't get the nuncio or vexilla, so they get punished hugely by morale stuff.

 

The game really doesn't need more trap options

[bushman101]

I'd like to think their are other ways to balance a unit without stepping on Tact or Despoilers. Maybe no Reactions?  Mandatory IC?

 

Might be wishful thinking considering some of the Exemplary Battle units.

[Stitch5000]

59 minutes ago, Gorgoff said:

Although I highly appreciate their work I couldn't find a reason to play their version of the inductii. 

WS3 means they won't hit anything in CC and they were just to expansive for what the brought to the table. I hope that Inductii will have lower BS and a rule showing that they are savages with no grasp of tactics and discipline without making them useless. I mean they have to be worth taking without making despoilers useless. No line rule is a given here I guess.

Inductii aren't "savages". 

THere's information on them in the HH2 Rulebook. They are competant space marines that are not-particularly-well received by their parent Legions based on what they represent, however much of the latter Heresy seems to have been fought by legions that largely relied on them to get boots on the ground. 

[Noserenda]

42 minutes ago, Stitch5000 said:

Inductii aren't "savages". 

THere's information on them in the HH2 Rulebook. They are competant space marines that are not-particularly-well received by their parent Legions based on what they represent, however much of the latter Heresy seems to have been fought by legions that largely relied on them to get boots on the ground. 

Some Inductii are indeed savages, someone even posted the exact fluff paragraph in one of these threads, the World eaters in 1st edition even got to run savage style inductii as units. 

Its the problem with such a broad term, in some cases like the Imperial fists their Inductii seem exactly as competent as their existing troops and have their own officers etc whilst the Worldeaters speed ran recruitment with an eye to making more berserkers and produced exactly what one would expect.

they do need to be broadly competent units though, or as mentioned, noone will take them. Troops in 30k are in a bad enough position as is, if you cant do a job as well as tactical marines... Personally id run them as tactical/despoiler units missing pride/spite and legion specific rules and include a little table to randomise their leadership a bit.

[arnesh88]

On 3/24/2023 at 4:56 PM, Gorgoff said:

I may add this little screenshot feom the announcement 

Is this one of the new characters?

Is the Herald in the back a new sculpt as well? Looks different from anything I've seen, and I cannot find a mace that matches the one he's wielding.