The Lion - Son of the Forest by Mike Brooks

[jaxom]

About half way done and really liking it. Brooks did his homework before writing this.

[ArielRSA]

My favorite part was where

 

Spoiler

The Lion is fighting the chaos war band on Camarth and he demands to know what sorcery he’s been affected by and the war band leader just laughs and says “you got old moron”.

quick question having finished - 

Spoiler

The wounded king is the emperor right?

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by ArielRSA

[Ubiquitous1984]

2 hours ago, ArielRSA said:

quick question having finished - 

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The wounded king is the emperor right?

 

Spoiler

Sure felt like it to me, with the creatures 'swimming' around his fishing boat the Chaos Gods?

 

[ArielRSA]

1 hour ago, Ubiquitous1984 said:

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Sure felt like it to me, with the creatures 'swimming' around his fishing boat the Chaos Gods?

 

I think so

[System Sound]

4 hours ago, ArielRSA said:

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The wounded king is the emperor right?

 

Spoiler

I would presume so. Since at the end of the novel he gets the Emperor's shield from the "Not Caliban".

 

[BitsHammer]

The Fisher King is 

Spoiler

Most likely the Emperor with his description of once having chestnut skin and black hair. The drops of blood could be the Astronomicon, or perhaps like the Dark Eldar he has a slow erosion of his soul that can only be staved by the psykers sacrifices to him via the Astronomicon.

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by BitsHammer

[b1soul]

On 4/23/2023 at 6:28 PM, Karhedron said:

I think it doesn't help that the rules for the Shield in 9th edition are a bit underwhelming, it is not even as good as a Stormshield.

 

Let's hope for that 10ed buff, otherwise that is a bit silly

[BitsHammer]

 

[Matcap86]

I gotta echo other Fraters: at best this book was inoffensive I suppose. The refurbished character suits old man Lion, but it feels like that character just is from day 1. Also the acquiring of the weaponry felt a lot like the other plot points: materialising out of thin air when it was convenient...

 

The overt Arthurian references and monty python sketch was also a bit too much on the nose for me. Referencing is fine but this was a bit much. 

 

All in all: not a fan but didn't hate it.

Edited April 25, 2023 by matcap86

[BitsHammer]

I liked the Arthurian references since the Lion's return was one big King Arthur reference set up years ago. I must have missed the Monty Python sketch though.

[Matcap86]

1 hour ago, BitsHammer said:

I liked the Arthurian references since the Lion's return was one big King Arthur reference set up years ago. I must have missed the Monty Python sketch though.

 

I don't mind references but this felt for me like wholesale copy pasting some themes/storybeats. On the monty python reference:

 

Spoiler

It's the end of the "Green Knight" where he first gets his right arm cut off, then his left, then his legs and then decapitated; with the head just about going: "Rematch?" I just missed the "I'll bite your legs off" from the Quest for the holy grail. 

 

[depthcharge12]

Read the spoilers and was glad I didn’t pick this up. It’s marvel movie tier garbage tropes.

 

Book had nothing to do with reintegrating with the chapter/legion of the Unforgiven or the Lion’s perspective on the new Imperium he’s dropped into. Also, there tends to be Fallen literally everywhere.

 

The Unforgiven spend considerable time and effort chasing them down, and the Lion just trips over what, 4-5 of them in separate groups?

[Matcap86]

54 minutes ago, depthcharge12 said:

Read the spoilers and was glad I didn’t pick this up. It’s marvel movie tier garbage tropes.

 

Book had nothing to do with reintegrating with the chapter/legion of the Unforgiven or the Lion’s perspective on the new Imperium he’s dropped into. Also, there tends to be Fallen literally everywhere.

 

The Unforgiven spend considerable time and effort chasing them down, and the Lion just trips over what, 4-5 of them in separate groups?

 

Spoiler

In the end there about 20 of them. 

 

[depthcharge12]

51 minutes ago, matcap86 said:

 

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In the end there about 20 of them. 

 

To make a Caliban pun…they grow on trees xD

[BitsHammer]

3 hours ago, depthcharge12 said:

Read the spoilers and was glad I didn’t pick this up. It’s marvel movie tier garbage tropes.

 

Book had nothing to do with reintegrating with the chapter/legion of the Unforgiven or the Lion’s perspective on the new Imperium he’s dropped into. Also, there tends to be Fallen literally everywhere.

 

The Unforgiven spend considerable time and effort chasing them down, and the Lion just trips over what, 4-5 of them in separate groups?

With thirty thousand Fallen scattered through space and time I would be more shocked if they weren't everywhere.

 

And it's been stated multiple times what this book is: it sets up the Lion's return, where the Fallen in AoO and his equipment came from and that's it. If you try and jump into it with any other assumption or try and layer any other assumption onto this book you're going to be disappointed. This isn't the Dark Imperium trilogy, it's more just them giving the Lion more screen time set things up like the Gathering Storm trilogy did Guilliman.

 

 

[BitsHammer]

On 4/22/2023 at 8:53 AM, Nagashsnee said:

 

He single handily takes on and defeats Deamon Angron, how is this weaker? Even peak Heresy Lion should not be able to do it, nevermind old man lion. 

 

GW can spend 100 novels telling me he is weaker but if they also spend 100 campaign books having him come out on top of the best fighters in the universe then the only thing they have told me is either their authors suck and cant lay out a clear message, or they dont care much if they do. 

I actually have a thought about that:

Spoiler

In the book something that comes up when he fights the Khorne Terminators and Chaos Lord is that he has a singular focus when in a fight. He also knows how to use the rage of Khorne's followers against them. So his clear and calm focused state versuses an Angron who becomes lost to the Rage and has been fighting a *lot* of people (to include Belial and Dante) before the Lion got involved means the Lion joined the fight fresh versus a being that was likely wounded and easily goaded into making mistakes he could capitalize on before he won.

 

Running away and dodging is a valid strat after all. Just ask any Dark Souls player and they'll agree.

 

[Moonreaper666]

It should be a one-time thing that Lion and Kaldor each beat one Daemon Primarch

 

In the next fight, they should be curbstomped and forced to flee, letting their Custode Terminator or Grey Knight Terminator Bodyguards be slaughtered as a rearguard Cannon Fodder

 

Spoiler

Angron and Mortarion should be MUCH stronger in their next fights

 

[BitsHammer]

3 hours ago, Moonreaper666 said:

It should be a one-time thing that Lion and Kaldor each beat one Daemon Primarch

 

In the next fight, they should be curbstomped and forced to flee, letting their Custode Terminator or Grey Knight Terminator Bodyguards be slaughtered as a rearguard Cannon Fodder

 

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Angron and Mortarion should be MUCH stronger in their next fights

 

If we're talking a straight up fight, sure. But if we're talking all the nonsense that 40k pulls to make fights "fair" then no.

 

Like Draigo has Mortarion's true name, but he's in the warp so the rest of the chapter may be less defended against Morty.

[jaxom]

I really liked it and would like more. I assume reconciliation with the Chapter will have to wait for a second book or a new DA codex.

[Arkangilos]

9 hours ago, Moonreaper666 said:

It should be a one-time thing that Lion and Kaldor each beat one Daemon Primarch

 

In the next fight, they should be curbstomped and forced to flee, letting their Custode Terminator or Grey Knight Terminator Bodyguards be slaughtered as a rearguard Cannon Fodder

 

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Angron and Mortarion should be MUCH stronger in their next fights

 

I mostly agree. Mostly. 

[DarkChaplain]

At this point I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I see the amount of negativity and strange expectations folks seem to hold about this stuff. And again, Angron's fight against the Lion isn't even in the novel to begin with.

 

Is it really so strange that a genetically engineered super-human who aged to full adulthood within a couple of years and was able to kill some of the strongest, most terrifying creatures on his home planet as a baby, a being that was meant to last forever might have a bit greyer hair and a few lines in his face after a 10k year nap, but hasn't suddenly become feeble? That his exemplary skill among his kind has not slowed in any way that the standard human eye or brain could even perceive? That what he got from aging isn't a pension but self-reflection, not to say that he grew a little bit wiser / mellowed out to not knock people's heads off?

 

The Lion from before Caliban is still there inside him. He just ended up looking at himself with the benefit of hindsight for the first time in ten millennia and figured out that he was being an impulsive, angry moron on many occasions and that his overblown pride cost him dearly. With time and distance comes realization, and this superhuman bloke with a brain as competent and complex as the best supercomputer we might be able to come up with in the next 500 years might try to be better in the future.

 

I'd find it ludicrously bad writing if he didn't, or just kept trucking on as he had up until the fall of Caliban, being angry at the world and everybody around him, while thinking he'd done everything right and would be beyond reproach.

 

And as for Angron vs the Lion, I think the depiction is much more in line with what we've seen since Daemon Primarchs started popping up in the Heresy than Angron's most famous depiction: The Emperor's Gift. I feel like a lot of folks seem to want more of ADB's nigh-undefeatable Angron with his hellguard of bloodthirsters and so forth, who makes it rain blood and kills dozens of Grey Knights in a single swipe. Which is fine, but it's quite out of tune with how Daemon Primarchs have been depicted since. They're not unstoppable, they're not undefeatable, and the thing best-suited to felling one is another Primarch. We got one here, one of the most skillful of the bunch, who has grown up as a hunter of big, powerful, warp-corrupted beasts. And that's all Angron is at this point: A beast driven entirely by rage. There is not a single deliberate thought of strategy left in his skull. It's all instinct - and that's something the Lion understands and can deal with.

Edited April 26, 2023 by DarkChaplain

[Mjasghar]

Wrt the Lion ageing

The loyalists still regraded themselves as human - they limit themselves through that belief. At the same time it allows them to be more complex than the single nature extremes of the Traitors. 
It’s similar to how they instinctively limit their psychic abilities but can ‘sense’ stuff when they want or need to. I’d point to the Khan summoning lighting or supersaiyan Corax as what can be done when they realise their potential. 

[BitsHammer]

The story is the arc. And arc about the Lion learning he may have been wrong and earning the loyalty of his sons while also they earn his trust.

 

As for the Lion and Angron, I would argue Angron is just a big beast at this point. He barely even recognizes his brother and merely wants to murder.

 

And the Lion is the best for hunting beasts and monsters.

[Dunedon]

2 hours ago, BitsHammer said:

The story is the arc. And arc about the Lion learning he may have been wrong and earning the loyalty of his sons while also they earn his trust.

 

As for the Lion and Angron, I would argue Angron is just a big beast at this point. He barely even recognizes his brother and merely wants to murder.

 

And the Lion is the best for hunting beasts and monsters.

It's even outright stated in AoO as the Lion's thoughts as to why this is the reason he's going to win the fight.  Even the Lion realizes he's fighting a beast, and a beast he can defeat. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

2 hours ago, BitsHammer said:

And the Lion is the best for hunting beasts and monsters.

 

As shown by....what?

 

Call it the failure of the series, but we've literally only seen the lion fight curze. Yes, he grew up on Caliban in the forests with the beasts; no, we don't know how many of those he killed or how theyre more impressive than the magma dragons on nocturne, the thing ferrus killed on medusa, the Greek myth stuff pert killed on Olympia, the stuff on fenris, the mutants on baal, or really any of the crazy xenos stuff fought in the crusade. 

 

It's similar to claims that he was a contestant for warmaster. He's hailed as this strategist, but we never see it; he basically only makes the wrong decision. The biggest campaign we see him in is thramas, and he got stalemated by a legion known for its dysfunction and unreliable primarch. It's all just in-universe gossip at this point.  

 

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It's even outright stated in AoO as the Lion's thoughts as to why this is the reason he's going to win the fight.  Even the Lion realizes he's fighting a beast, and a beast he can defeat. 

 

Lol maybe someone should have told sang he was only fighting a beast, not like angron was shown to have any higher reasoning in echoes.

Edited April 27, 2023 by SkimaskMohawk