10th Edition Deathwatch discussion

[xxxjtmxxx]

ok, nice ideas. put this together we will see something like that

 

6 centurion, grav and laser 410

jumping with teleportarium for good Position 

for vehicles, monsters and heavy infantry 

 

6 eradicators with biologis and captain 380

jumping with teleportarium for good Position for vehicles and monsters

+ ss thunderstrike for wound modi 160

 

10 hellblasters with lt. (maybe apo) to shred heavy infantry 375 or 430

 

10 infernus with captain  260 for mass infantry, jumping with teleportarium for good Position 

 

this are 1640 points and really heavy output. but we have only the centurions for melee und nothing what saves us objektives.

 

So my try is to put in 

 

5 incursors 90

midfield, giving the Hit bonus

 

5 veterans, 2 frak, Rest melee 100 

midfield

 

5 veterans, 2 missile launcher, Rest melee 100

home

 

These are total 1930 points.

 

very aggressive, extrem mobile force.

what did you think?

 

edit. maybe changing the lt also to a captain for Position shananigans? or anywhere a librarion for better damage controle?

Edited June 20, 2023 by xxxjtmxxx

[PDH_neglected_fruits]

Hi all. I just want to confirm that I'm reading it correctly and not missing something.

 

Spectrus Kill Team Infiltrators lose their Omni Scramblers. The Incursors load out lose their Multi Spectrum Array? 

 

If that's the case those bits of equipment are literally sculpted onto the models backpacks

 

[Lemondish]

4 hours ago, PDH_neglected_fruits said:

Hi all. I just want to confirm that I'm reading it correctly and not missing something.

 

Spectrus Kill Team Infiltrators lose their Omni Scramblers. The Incursors load out lose their Multi Spectrum Array? 

 

If that's the case those bits of equipment are literally sculpted onto the models backpacks

 

Correct.

 

WYSIWYG is kinda thrown into disarray for Kill Teams.

[PDH_neglected_fruits]

Thanks @Lemondish that's what I feared.  

 

It's just ridiculous. The space marines with the finest weapons and experimental equipment have to switch off their standard equipment when they go out fighting aliens together even though it would be all special forces and useful.

 

On a side note I will admit I do like the idea of a couple of autocannons in my infiltrator unit.

[angrom]

A quick question,

Does rapid ingress strat work together with the DW teleportarium strat?

[zero888]

13 hours ago, angrom said:

A quick question,

Does rapid ingress strat work together with the DW teleportarium strat?

I say no, because the wording in the DW index says specifically when they can come back in.

 

What's the thoughts on the best delivery system for the Thief of Secrets? A biker captain/chaplain stands out for the mobility and ability to be a missile from early on. Another is a regular Captain with possibly BGV coming out of a Land Raider. The first combat can power up the Thief then in a counter charge he can power up the one time ability for Devastating Wounds.. at that point 6s to wound are most likely slamming 4 MWs each.

[KevDW]

Thief of secrets I stuck on a Gravis Captain as he gets a boat load of attacks at a high strength and once his indomitor team loses some models he hits even harder

[ServoBadger]

I could really use some suggestions for good anti tank/monster for my Deathwatch. In 9th I relied on a combi melta veteran squad (gone), vanguard veterans with heavy thunder hammers (gone) and a four missile launcher pseudo-devastator squad (now a big investment requiring 10 models), plus a couple of Corvus Blackstars (flyers seem bad in general in 10th?).

 

I haven't had chance to play marines of any flavour in 10th yet, I'm not sure what's good. 

[Lemondish]

Gladiator Lancers do that job really well.

[ServoBadger]

I've just played a 2k game against Tyranids and I need more than Gladiator Lancers, I need some basic tactical help!

 

We played the ritual with hammer and anvil deployment and the tyranids went first. They advanced up and camped in the midfield with two acid spray tyrannofexes supported by a hive tyrant and venomthropes for permanent cover. There was a haruspex and a neurotyrant with Tyrant guard on one flank and six zoanthropes on the other, plus an exocrine a bit further back. The rest of the board from the midfield back to his table edge was completely screened out with small stuff, giving me nowhere to move or deep strike. Basically I was immediately pinned within my deployment zone.

 

I tried to focus down a Tyrannofex on my first turn with Oath of Moment, Hellfire Rounds and Malleus Tactics, but it was still alive on a couple of wounds after my entire army shot at it.

 

In my opponent's next turn he continued to dominate the table and all the objectives outside my deployment zone while shooting me. My casualties weren't catastrophic at this point but he was scoring VPs and I wasn't.

 

My second turn was a repeat of the first, only this time with Furor tactics. I got rid of the first Tyrannofex and got the second down to a handful of wounds but couldn't kill it, again using my entire army, and was still unable to score any points.

 

By my opponent's third turn I was running seriously short of units and the score was something like 46-0. I drew assassinate in my third turn and, since he'd left his hive tyrant exposed, I managed to kill it by once again shooting virtually everything at it and charging a squad of Terminators with a captain into it. With five whole VPs, virtually no army and no way to score I conceded.

 

Now obviously I don't know what I'm doing but I'm at a loss to know what to do once the enemy takes the midfield with T12 monsters with a 2+ save, permanent cover and easy access to 5+++ FNP, which are armed with torrent weapons that melt marines by the squad that move within 18" with overwatch on your turn. It felt like the game was lost by the end of the first movement phase.

 

It may be that I simply don't have sufficient punch in my army, my list was:

 

Watch Master

Terminator Captain

10 Veterans (4 ML, 6 standard)

10 Veterans (4 Infernus HB, 4 shields, 1 heavy thunder hammers, 1 standard)

10 Veterans (4 Frag Cannon, 4 shields, 1 heavy thunder hammer, 1 standard)

10 Hellblasters

5 Terminators (3 Cyclones)

5 Terminators (2 Assault Cannons, one Heavy Flamer)

Dreadnought (LC/ML)

Corvus Blackstar (Assault Cannon, Blackstar Rockets, Hurricane Bolter)

Corvus Blackstar (Lascannon, Stormstrike, Hurricane Bolter)

 

I don't have much in my current collection that I think would help much - some veteran bikers, some vanguard veterans, some intercessors and heavy intercessors, some flamer aggressors, some combi weapon veterans, a Land Raider Redeemer, a Razorback, another dreadnought and a few characters.

 

Any basic tactical suggestions would be really appreciated. I've never been the best player in the world but I've never felt at such a loss in any previous edition as I have in the couple of games of 10th I've had against Tyranids.

Edited July 28, 2023 by ServoBadger

[Lemondish]

I personally haven't faced a Tyrannofex in a 10th edition game yet. What about them screamed to you that you needed to focus over two whole turns to kill them, surrendering primary each time?

[ServoBadger]

9 hours ago, Lemondish said:

I personally haven't faced a Tyrannofex in a 10th edition game yet. What about them screamed to you that you needed to focus over two whole turns to kill them, surrendering primary each time?

We were playing the ritual. There's only one objective in no man's land, in the centre of the table. To place more objectives in no man's land you have to move a unit so that an objective can be placed 1" from that unit and exactly 9" from another objective marker. That unit can't shoot or charge. You can't score from the objectives in the deployment zones.

 

My opponent put his Tyrannofexes either side of the objective in the centre and used some Leapers to place a second objective 9" away and diagonally back towards his deployment zone. So I couldn't get at either of those objectives in my turn, and attempting to enter no man's land to place an objective of my own would be met by 6+D6 torrent hits at S6 AP-2 D2 in overwatch, with any survivors giving up any damage output for the turn, and also being no more than 9" away from the bulk of my opponent's army.

 

I didn't see any way to score primary while the Tyrannofexes were there.

Edited July 30, 2023 by ServoBadger

[Lemondish]

That makes a ton of sense. I forgot the specifics about the ritual mission.

 

I got nothing for that. I feel I also would have been stumped by it, though your list does seem to be missing high strength weaponry. I might have tried to make some breathing room by taking back some of the board from the other gribblies but it does feel like a lost mission at deployment.

 

Hopefully you get an opportunity to face them in a different mission to better gauge things.

[Lemondish]

I've been thinking about this all afternoon (while assembling some Hellblasters), and what I've been thinking is to go one of two ways.

 

Overwhelming firepower in the form of every Las-type you can fit, but this might require tremendous additions to your collection. Gladiator Lancer, Predator Annihilator, Repulsor Executioners and the good old Vindicator all have weapons that can reliably wound a Tyrannofex.

 

However, don't sleep on the Storm Speeder Thunderstrike to help here since it can improve your wound rolls against it for your whole army. I like using this with Eradicators as they do not need Oaths and punch well above their weight with the TStrike support.

 

Repulsors and the Redemptor dread both have a good source of Mortal Wounds especially if you Oath of Moment the Tyrannofex. This probably would only count for some chip damage without other buffs, though.

 

Speaking of the Dread, one of the other ways I could think about neutralizing that threat is to charge it with a dreadnought equivalent. The Tfex doesn't look like it has any real melee, so you are basically getting free hits on it, even if you took some damage on the way in from overwatch. Plus, they can only overwatch one unit anyway.

 

Not sure if any of this is viable - it's all academic. A punch out in the middle looks to be the only way to bother contesting the objectives, but I'm not sure how helpful any of this is considering it's all outside your current collection :(

Edited July 30, 2023 by Lemondish

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Has anybody tried running an infantry only DW army in 10th? 

It's something I think I'd like to try out. 

[Lemondish]

10 hours ago, Bloody Legionnaire said:

Has anybody tried running an infantry only DW army in 10th? 

It's something I think I'd like to try out. 

 

There was a recent Deathwatch list that went 4-1 at a GT that was really heavy on infantry. The only vehicles were a pair of Whirlwinds and a Storm Speeder Hailstrike. The Hailstrike brings a unique buff that infantry can't replace, but you could still do something else with the 130 points there I'm sure. There are a few options for replacing the Whirlwind output, like putting the points towards a Desolation Squad to keep the theme.

 

Here's the list for reference:

 

Spoiler

 Deathwatch say “NO†(1990 Points)

Space Marines
Deathwatch
Black Spear Task Force
Strike Force (2000 Points)

CHARACTERS

Captain in Terminator Armour (135 Points)
 Warlord
 1x Relic weapon
 1x Storm bolter
 Enhancements: The Tome of Ectoclades

OTHER DATASHEETS

Deathwatch Terminator Squad (210 Points)
 1x Deathwatch Terminator Sergeant
 1x Storm Shield
 1x Thunder hammer
 4x Deathwatch Terminator
 3x Cyclone missile launcher
 3x Power fist
 1x Storm Shield
 3x Storm bolter
 1x Thunder hammer

Deathwatch Terminator Squad (210 Points)
 1x Deathwatch Terminator Sergeant
 1x Storm Shield
 1x Thunder hammer
 4x Deathwatch Terminator
 3x Cyclone missile launcher
 3x Power fist
 1x Storm Shield
 3x Storm bolter
 1x Thunder hammer

Inceptor Squad (115 Points)
 1x Inceptor Sergeant
 1x Close combat weapon
 1x Plasma exterminators
 2x Inceptor
 2x Close combat weapon
 2x Plasma exterminators

Inceptor Squad (115 Points)
 1x Inceptor Sergeant
 1x Close combat weapon
 1x Plasma exterminators
 2x Inceptor
 2x Close combat weapon
 2x Plasma exterminators

Proteus Kill Team (330 Points)
 5x Kill Team Veteran
 5x Close combat weapon
 1x Deathwatch thunder hammer
 4x Frag cannon
 1x Kill Team Biker
 1x Close combat weapon
 1x Long Vigil melee weapon
 1x Twin boltgun
 4x Kill Team Terminator
 3x Cyclone missile launcher
 3x Power fist
 1x Storm Shield
 3x Storm bolter
 1x Terminator thunder hammer

Proteus Kill Team (330 Points)
 5x Kill Team Veteran
 5x Close combat weapon
 1x Deathwatch thunder hammer
 4x Infernus heavy bolter
 1x Kill Team Biker
 1x Close combat weapon
 1x Long Vigil melee weapon
 1x Twin boltgun
 4x Kill Team Terminator
 3x Cyclone missile launcher
 3x Power fist
 1x Storm Shield
 3x Storm bolter
 1x Terminator thunder hammer

Storm Speeder Hailstrike (130 Points)
 1x Close combat weapon
 2x Fragstorm grenade launcher
 1x Onslaught gatling cannon
 1x Twin ironhail heavy stubber

Whirlwind (150 Points)
 1x Armoured tracks
 1x Hunter-killer missile
 1x Storm bolter
 1x Whirlwind vengeance launcher

Whirlwind (150 Points)
 1x Armoured tracks
 1x Hunter-killer missile
 1x Storm bolter
 1x Whirlwind vengeance launcher

ALLIED UNITS

Callidus Assassin (115 Points)
 1x Neural shredder
 1x Phase sword and poison blades

 

ETA: I also just saw a full infantry only list from a German tournament go 4-1 as well, though it includes exactly zero Deathwatch specific units.

Edited July 31, 2023 by Lemondish

[ServoBadger]

20 hours ago, Lemondish said:

I've been thinking about this all afternoon (while assembling some Hellblasters), and what I've been thinking is to go one of two ways.

 

Overwhelming firepower in the form of every Las-type you can fit, but this might require tremendous additions to your collection. Gladiator Lancer, Predator Annihilator, Repulsor Executioners and the good old Vindicator all have weapons that can reliably wound a Tyrannofex.

 

However, don't sleep on the Storm Speeder Thunderstrike to help here since it can improve your wound rolls against it for your whole army. I like using this with Eradicators as they do not need Oaths and punch well above their weight with the TStrike support.

 

Repulsors and the Redemptor dread both have a good source of Mortal Wounds especially if you Oath of Moment the Tyrannofex. This probably would only count for some chip damage without other buffs, though.

 

Speaking of the Dread, one of the other ways I could think about neutralizing that threat is to charge it with a dreadnought equivalent. The Tfex doesn't look like it has any real melee, so you are basically getting free hits on it, even if you took some damage on the way in from overwatch. Plus, they can only overwatch one unit anyway.

 

Not sure if any of this is viable - it's all academic. A punch out in the middle looks to be the only way to bother contesting the objectives, but I'm not sure how helpful any of this is considering it's all outside your current collection :(

 

I'm not sure if I'm relieved that it's not just me who can't see an obvious solution, or disappointed that there isn't one to be found!

 

I do have an all-Primaris Imperial Fists army with a Gladiator and a Repulsor Executioner and an as-yet unpainted Ballistus from the Leviathan box, I think I'll lend them to the Deathwatch for the next game and see if they fill the hole in my shooting game. There's a yellow Redemptor available too. My Deathwatch army has always been more about the fun and narrative, but if I need to add a couple of heavy hitters it's an option.

 

I appreciate you giving it some thought!

[Lemondish]

I look forward to hearing if it works out for you.

 

Also, one of the things I noticed from those successful tournament lists mentioned above is the way they packed in anti-vehicle/monster tools. The first one used a ton of cyclone missile launchers across two big Proteus teams and two separate Deathwatch Terminator units, likely boosted against a particular target with the Hailstrike and Oaths. Like 12 of those with support from the Whirlwinds and, in a pinch, the Plasma Inceptors seem like a ton of versatile problem solving, especially with Furor tactics active.

 

The other list was just a normal marine list but using the Deathwatch detachment, but it looks like it replied on Desolation Squads and Hellblasters.

[ServoBadger]

On 7/31/2023 at 8:59 PM, Lemondish said:

I look forward to hearing if it works out for you.

Well it took a while to arrange a rematch... I ended up swapping out the anti-infantry Blackstar and Terminator squad for a Predator Annihilator, a Vindicator and an Apothecary to join the Hellblasters.

 

This time it was Vital Ground with Dawn of War deployment, and it wasn't QUITE so one sided.

 

With Oath of Moment and Furor Tactics up the added firepower from the tanks made it possible to burn down a Tyrannofex in a turn, even with cover from Venomthropes and a 5+++. As a result I was able to push on to some objectives in no man's land in my T2, clearing off some Zoanthropes and Termagants into the bargain which was very satisfying.

 

However I also made a mistake on T2 which cost me the game - I didn't make my opponent's Exocrine my Oath of Moment target and picked another Tyrannofex holding a mid board objective instead. I got that down to 2 wounds left but couldn't finish it off, and in my opponent's turn the Exocrine wiped out the squad of veterans on one of the mid board objectives with ease.

 

Coupled with failing to kill the Tyrannofex holding the objective on the other flank - with the Vindicator, Predator Annihilator, Blackstar, Hellfire Dreadnought, Cyclone Terminators, still two wounds left - and the bulk of my opponent's army pushing the central objective I was quickly out of the game again.

 

What did I learn?

 

1. Adding two tanks isn't enough, particularly when your opponent has added a third Tyrannofex and a Maleceptor. This is an arms race and I'm losing it!

 

2. Veteran squads cannot reliably hold objectives, even with four storm shields, even in cover, even with Armour of Contempt, when the opponent can deploy Exocrines, Tyrannofexes or Maleceptors against you. I was able to get on to objectives with my 10 man veteran squads but they were dead by the time my next command phase rolled around.

 

3. 600pts on three ten man Veteran squads is a complete waste of points when lots of monsters are on the field. They can't kill and they can't hold.

 

Still, I nearly doubled my VP total from 5 to 9, and I -did- have my opponent worried after my first turn. I don't see a path to victory with the models I have, but at least it felt like I was playing the game this time.