Force Weapon Strength

[MARK0SIAN]

I’ve never used Librarians before so my experience with force weapons is non-existent. I wanted to check if I’ve understood the effects of the ‘Force’ ability correctly.

 

My Librarian has a force axe which gives +1 Strength. Now the force rules states that (if you pass the psychic check) you double the Strength of the ATTACKS, not the weapon. Now the strength of the attack would be 5 due to the plus 1, so does that get doubled to Strength 10?

 

The alternative would be to double the models base strength then add 1 making it strength 9, or (unlikely) double the +1 to make it Strength 6. 
 

It seems like it would be the strength 10 option but that seems high and my lack of experience with force weapons is making me second guess myself. Any help much appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

I think is doubled the Strength first and then you apply other modifiers. So it would be 9. But in Horus Heresy you can have attacks of S 10 or more, so I have some doubts.

[MARK0SIAN]

16 minutes ago, AGRAMAR said:

I think is doubled the Strength first and then you apply other modifiers. So it would be 9. But in Horus Heresy you can have attacks of S 10 or more, so I have some doubts.

That was my initial thought too as that’s how the modifiers normally work but it’s the fact it specifically says the strength of the attack not the weapon that’s throwing me a bit. That and the fact that the weapon doesn’t actually have a strength, just a modifier to your own strength. But then, it’s not like the rules were the most proof-read document to ever be published so who knows! 

[MichaelCarmine]

18 hours ago, MARK0SIAN said:

I’ve never used Librarians before so my experience with force weapons is non-existent. I wanted to check if I’ve understood the effects of the ‘Force’ ability correctly.

 

My Librarian has a force axe which gives +1 Strength. Now the force rules states that (if you pass the psychic check) you double the Strength of the ATTACKS, not the weapon. Now the strength of the attack would be 5 due to the plus 1, so does that get doubled to Strength 10?

 

The alternative would be to double the models base strength then add 1 making it strength 9, or (unlikely) double the +1 to make it Strength 6. 
 

It seems like it would be the strength 10 option but that seems high and my lack of experience with force weapons is making me second guess myself. Any help much appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance.

Rulebook pg 147 - "Multiple Modifiers".

Regardles, if the Str. bonus comes thru rules, or wargear - you always multiply first, then add/substract.

So Force doubles the Str. (4x2=8) then you add the +1 Str. (8+1=9) from the Axe.

Doesn't matter, if it doubles the str. of the attack/str. charakteristic/weapon str., it always applies as per the "Multiple Modifiers" rule. =]

 

When i played the Librarian - before benching him, until he gets nerfed - mine wielded a Force Maul. Thats 4x2+2=10. AP3, but at Initiative! ^^

[SkimaskMohawk]

Yea, multiple modifiers is pretty all-encompassing by calling out any rules or wargear. It'd be cool for force weapons to not work that way, just like it's be cool for white scars to get their movement boost with jump packs, but thems the breaks until a FAQ or something.

[MARK0SIAN]

Thanks all, it’s the first time I’ve ever come across a situation of doubling a value that wasn’t just a flat number so it was throwing me off.

 

I’d say it was a shame that he can’t ID Custodes but who am I kidding? He wouldn’t live long enough to swing anyway 

[SkimaskMohawk]

Just now, MARK0SIAN said:

Thanks all, it’s the first time I’ve ever come across a situation of doubling a value that wasn’t just a flat number so it was throwing me off.

 

I’d say it was a shame that he can’t ID Custodes but who am I kidding? He wouldn’t live long enough to swing anyway 

 

If you're having a problem with t5 then you can take a moritat to add rad grenades and pop them to t4. It is a bit points intensive, and you do still need to get through their weight of attacks and Ws5, but it's an option.

[bristlybadger]

Seems strange to me that you'd straight up ignore "double the strength of the attacks" bit on Force. S12 on a Maul does seem high, but a Biomancer gets S10 attacks every now and then..

[MARK0SIAN]

21 minutes ago, bristlybadger said:

Seems strange to me that you'd straight up ignore "double the strength of the attacks" bit on Force. S12 on a Maul does seem high, but a Biomancer gets S10 attacks every now and then..

Yeah that’s what threw me at first too. I think it’s partly a result of poor proof-reading on the part of the authors and also that abilities like that don’t mesh brilliantly when the weapon strength is a modifier and not a flat value. Overall I’m happy to accept it becomes S9 but I do think it’s an area of the rules that could’ve benefited from more thorough/careful wording.

[bristlybadger]

Yeah, that proof reading, haha..

 

I suppose I should be happy with an S10 Maul, S12 would be me getting greedy, hah. You running the FW Traitor Librarian by an chance? I gave mine a Maul by getting tipsy and snapping off that Axe head... hardest thing I've done, as it's probably my favourite FW model save the DKK Marshal.

[MARK0SIAN]

1 minute ago, bristlybadger said:

Yeah, that proof reading, haha..

 

I suppose I should be happy with an S10 Maul, S12 would be me getting greedy, hah. You running the FW Traitor Librarian by an chance? I gave mine a Maul by getting tipsy and snapping off that Axe head... hardest thing I've done, as it's probably my favourite FW model save the DKK Marshal.

That is a cool model but I’m actually running a Stormseer for my White Scars. I love the idea of riding around on a bike making weather magic! 

[bristlybadger]

Ah, lovely! I ought to read up on Stormseers, I've no idea what they do!

[MichaelCarmine]

2 hours ago, bristlybadger said:

Yeah, that proof reading, haha..

 

I suppose I should be happy with an S10 Maul, S12 would be me getting greedy, hah. You running the FW Traitor Librarian by an chance? I gave mine a Maul by getting tipsy and snapping off that Axe head... hardest thing I've done, as it's probably my favourite FW model save the DKK Marshal.

Ah yas, the mighty Cataphractii Librarian =]

As a Caster of Runes, i'm atleast not able to use the broken Powers...

Just a casual 3+ shroud xD