WH40k game Balance Dataslate and Arks of Omen FAQ

[Cpt_Reaper]

As a Dark Angels player since 4th, and someone who was working on a 35 Terminators and 2 Land Raiders list for a local event soon...we deserved that nerf.

 

Does it make Inner Circle a punishment now? Yes.

Should GW have given something in return for taking? Yes.

Am I angry they did what they did? Not at all.

 

9th edition is closing, 10th is near. No skin off my nose.

[chapter master 454]

I mean...we could of just went all out and just reset every army back to default codex, literally the dataslate: "Just go by whats in the codex except these erratas to fix spelling mistakes by our intern" and have the end of 9th be all codices going buck wild at each other, swinging for the fences and seeing who really was the best codex on release. Does the Ad-Mech still hold up against later comers, do Tau still haymaker with broadsides? I mean at this point when the edition is ending and we head into a reset, may as well go for it imo.

[Captain Caine 24th]

Finial takes a hit - losing the ignore hit modifiers and just ensuring the enemy can't ignore wounds. 

Kasrkin - expected mortal limit to just the 6 now. 

 

IG/AM wasn't all that oppressive in game win percentage but the Kasrkin certainly left some feel bad moments. Still very much a great unit though, and undercosted. 

[Stealth_Hobo]

1 hour ago, Orange Knight said:

 

 

It's one of those abilities that makes people like me, a lowly Imperial Fists player, think that it might be best if GW just ditch all these chapter distinctions altogether lol.

Love it! It's funny to see all these nerfs reverted but IF super doctrine is still at its nerfed state. 

[Skywrath]

@WrathOfTheLion @phandaal Hit the nail on the head with their explanations. If we kept our pre AOO points cost and subsequently our transhuman, people would be crying much less about Deathwing Terminators. As I pointed out earlier, that with the pre AOO costs and their terminators keeping their transhuman, we barely broke C tier, competitively. This is just a combination of free wargear and points cost reductions creating the perfect storm because the braindead developers don't test their own rules.

 

Do I think the nerf to terminators was justified? Somewhat. Did they overnerf the terminators? Absolutely. Reducing the transhuman to wounds of 1-2 fails, or hitting them with a pts hike would be far more efficient than flat out removing it. As someone pointed out earlier, this is just lazy balancing, that kills one sub faction off completely due to their own incompetence. That last reason is what makes me furious.

 

EDIT: Also Ravenwing traditionally stole the spotlight for competitive dark angels in previous editions, and it was nice seeing the boys in white have their time in the sun. Hopefully that still happens with 10th. 

Edited April 13, 2023 by Skywrath

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I want to know who looked at artillery and said “yeah know what? It’s not weak enough yet.”?

[jaxom]

56 minutes ago, chapter master 454 said:

I mean...we could of just went all out and just reset every army back to default codex, literally the dataslate: "Just go by whats in the codex except these erratas to fix spelling mistakes by our intern" and have the end of 9th be all codices going buck wild at each other, swinging for the fences and seeing who really was the best codex on release. Does the Ad-Mech still hold up against later comers, do Tau still haymaker with broadsides? I mean at this point when the edition is ending and we head into a reset, may as well go for it imo.

 

I would love to see one of the YouTube battle report channels do this as a series of episodes.

 

46 minutes ago, Skywrath said:

EDIT: Also Ravenwing traditionally stole the spotlight for competitive dark angels in previous editions, and it was nice seeing the boys in white have their time in the sun. Hopefully that still happens with 10th. 

 

*Sobs quietly in Greenwing and Greenwing+ lists*

[phandaal]

1 hour ago, chapter master 454 said:

I mean...we could of just went all out and just reset every army back to default codex, literally the dataslate: "Just go by whats in the codex except these erratas to fix spelling mistakes by our intern" and have the end of 9th be all codices going buck wild at each other, swinging for the fences and seeing who really was the best codex on release. Does the Ad-Mech still hold up against later comers, do Tau still haymaker with broadsides? I mean at this point when the edition is ending and we head into a reset, may as well go for it imo.

 

This would make Votann the boogeymen they never actually were, since the codex got slammered before it even went live. So, yes let's do it!

[Sea Creature]

Army wide THP was always broken. Finally they nerfed it. It’s not like it even fit the lore either.

[phandaal]

19 minutes ago, Sea Creature said:

Army wide THP was always broken.

 

Dark Angels were mid-tier for most of 9th edition, so this is objectively false.

[Sea Creature]

They were unfun to play against. Sometimes win rate isn’t the main issue.

[Cpt_Reaper]

1 hour ago, Sea Creature said:

Army wide THP was always broken. Finally they nerfed it. It’s not like it even fit the lore either.

No it wasn't.

Free wargear, doctrines lasting all game again and the huge value of Codex Warfare all stacked on top of THP were broken.

THP on Deathwing was, at best, middle tier in power. A pure Deathwing army is very swingy. Either it can defeat the opponent or it can't.

 

This is now irrelevant though. The bandwagoners will jump ship to their next meta list in the 2-3 months left of 9th, then do the same in 10th. People will remember that time Deathwing was good and then wasn't.

[Sea Creature]

It didn’t make any sense from the lore and it’s not like DA don’t have a lot of other strong mechanics like Intractable. It was definitely OP.

[phandaal]

1 hour ago, Sea Creature said:

They were unfun to play against.

 

16 minutes ago, Sea Creature said:

It didn’t make any sense from the lore

 

These are opinions. No one can argue how you should or should not feel.

 

16 minutes ago, Sea Creature said:

It was definitely OP.

 

This is demonstrably false.

 

Probably ought to just stick to the opinions. Nothing wrong with liking or disliking things.

[Skywrath]

22 minutes ago, Sea Creature said:

It didn’t make any sense from the lore and it’s not like DA don’t have a lot of other strong mechanics like Intractable. It was definitely OP.

 

In bold.

 

That's objectionably false as well, as the Deathwing were said to embody the silent strength of Lionel Johnson, according to official fluff. As @phandaal pointed out, there is nothing wrong with liking or disliking things, but don't phrase your opinion is as an objective truth, when both of the facts you presented were blatantly false.

[Sea Creature]

That’s a bold claim regarding it being based in lore.

[Skywrath]

2 minutes ago, Sea Creature said:

That’s a bold claim regarding it being based in lore.

 

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Deathwing_Knights

 

Deathwing Knights are fierce warriors who are part of the fighting elite of the Dark Angels and their successors' Deathwing units.

It is said that in them lives on some semblance of Lion El'Jonson himself and they embody his silent strength. These veterans are the most trusted and experienced warriors of the Deathwing and make up the Company's own exclusive Inner Circle, learning the some of the hidden truths of the Unforgiven.

Deathwing Knights are garbed in long robes, hold huge storm shields, and are most commonly armed with Maces of Absolution. The squads are themselves led by a Knight Master, who wields the Flail of the Unforgiven. Deathwing Knights are also frequently accompanied by Watchers in the Dark.

 

There you go, in bold, with a link to the page as well. Checkmate. 

[Blindhamster]

silent strength != "can take a lascannon to the face with a 50% chance it hurts".

 

super resilient isn't something that was ever really associated with dark angels before this edition, willpower? sure, but physical toughness? no.

 

at least, my opinion!

[Sea Creature]

@Skywrath
 

I just don’t see how that reflects them being hard as nails, which is related to toughness not strength.

Edited April 13, 2023 by Sea Creature

[Skywrath]

Just now, Blindhamster said:

silent strength != "can take a lascannon to the face with a 50% chance it hurts".

 

super resilient isn't something that was ever really associated with dark angels before this edition, willpower? sure, but physical toughness? no.

 

at least, my opinion!

 

Perhaps the expression of: "Where there is a will there is a way" rings a bell? Metaphysically speaking an abundance of willpower could correspond to an abundance of strength, i.e. silent strength as outlined above.

 

But we are derailing at this point.. canonically I proven that the Deathwing embody some type of strength, which at least this edition corresponds, quite by coincidence to them getting transhuman.. well until now.

 

 

[Blindhamster]

4 minutes ago, Skywrath said:

 

Perhaps the expression of: "Where there is a will there is a way" rings a bell? Metaphysically speaking an abundance of willpower could correspond to an abundance of strength, i.e. silent strength as outlined above.

 

But we are derailing at this point.. canonically I proven that the Deathwing embody some type of strength, which at least this edition corresponds, quite by coincidence to them getting transhuman.. well until now.

 

 

Yes, that strength has traditionally been shown by them being fearless. Due to strength of will.

[Skywrath]

Just now, Blindhamster said:

Yes, that strength has traditionally been shown by them being fearless. Due to strength of will.

 

Another rule which applies to them as well, guess they embody more than a single type of strength right?

[phandaal]

4 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

silent strength != "can take a lascannon to the face with a 50% chance it hurts".

 

super resilient isn't something that was ever really associated with dark angels before this edition, willpower? sure, but physical toughness? no.

 

at least, my opinion!

 

I always saw it as "too stubborn to die." Which definitely fits with Dark Angels. That is how some rules go. Just approximations of what may actually be taking place.

 

Sort of like Black Templars getting mini-Transhuman and a force field because they made a vow. Is that actually what is supposed to be happening? No, but it approximates what is going on.

 

The Inner Circle thing is probably something they planned on for 10th edition and just got the big brain idea to do it now, because they do not understand what is driving up Dark Angels win rates. This change and the removal of the Primaris keyword seem to indicate GW is moving away from these blanket THP-type rules. We will see.

[Blindhamster]

toughness isn't the same as strength. But anyway, yeah apparently GW decided they didn't need the rule, so thats the end of it. They had supreme toughness for a little less than an edition.

[Cryptshadow]

49 minutes ago, Skywrath said:

 

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Deathwing_Knights

 

Deathwing Knights are fierce warriors who are part of the fighting elite of the Dark Angels and their successors' Deathwing units.

It is said that in them lives on some semblance of Lion El'Jonson himself and they embody his silent strength. These veterans are the most trusted and experienced warriors of the Deathwing and make up the Company's own exclusive Inner Circle, learning the some of the hidden truths of the Unforgiven.

Deathwing Knights are garbed in long robes, hold huge storm shields, and are most commonly armed with Maces of Absolution. The squads are themselves led by a Knight Master, who wields the Flail of the Unforgiven. Deathwing Knights are also frequently accompanied by Watchers in the Dark.

 

There you go, in bold, with a link to the page as well. Checkmate. 

Thats the opposite of checkmate :P, every dark angel has a semblance of their primarch, it's called geneseed :D.

And i gotta disagree dark angels have been anything but silent about their strength aka perman transhuman, which honestly needed to go, they didn't need it or should have had it, their terminators veterans aren't more terminator than other chapter's veterans. And no your Bold words are not a justification for why deathwing terminators are tougher, as i recall dark angels just have a bunch of terminator suits than other chapters, not stronger, not tougher. Just more, allowing them to outfit all veterans and their sub chapters.

 

Sub faction identity is cool but i don't believe any chapter should have such a huge difference in a units durability/lethality, the difference between chapters should be noticeable but should be small. At least IMO

Edited April 13, 2023 by Cryptshadow