Belakor Be'lakor should be a Necrontyr Daemon Prince. Ancestor to Trazyn and Orikan

[Moonreaper666]

Be'lakor should be confirmed in the Lore as a Necrontyr Daemon Prince right before the War in Heaven

 

-Be'lakor gets the spotlight and has modified stats/spells/skills/equipment on Tabletop

 

-Confirms Be'lakor is the First Daemon Prince by selling out his kind in exchange for power and immortality. Also confirms and show how dangerous Chaos was during the War in Heaven without revealing too much of it

 

-It would confirm the presence of Xeno Daemon Princes in Lore. Perhaps more stories of Xenos ascending to Daemon Prince status. (Like Samus or original characters)

 

-Trazyn and Orikan would be more aware of their own faults and know that they too could fall to Chaos like their ancestor did. Allows character development.

 

-Chance to introduce Chaos Necrontyr/Necrons and other corrupted Xeno species to the Lore and Tabletop. GW would have no problem mass-producing Chaos Tau, Necron, Eldar, Genestealer Cult and Chaos Ork Models

[Grotsmasha]

You know, this idea, I don't hate it, and it would certainly open up a new avenue for lore, and potential revenue source. Unfortunately all the Chaos Gods/ Daemons etc pull double duty with AoS, and there's no way to reconcile that back-history with AoS without placing both systems in the same Galaxy and timeline, which GeeDubz won't do. 

I think a better alternative might be to eventually evolve Farsight into a Daemon Prince, that could be cool.

[Moonreaper666]

2 hours ago, Grotsmasha said:

You know, this idea, I don't hate it, and it would certainly open up a new avenue for lore, and potential revenue source. Unfortunately all the Chaos Gods/ Daemons etc pull double duty with AoS, and there's no way to reconcile that back-history with AoS without placing both systems in the same Galaxy and timeline, which GeeDubz won't do. 

I think a better alternative might be to eventually evolve Farsight into a Daemon Prince, that could be cool.

 

Be'lakor doesn't need to have the exact same story in both Universes

 

My version puts 40k Be'lakor's backstory to be very similar to his Fantasy/AoS counterpart. The first mortal to worship Chaos and become an Undivided Daemon Prince

 

-Be'lakor can have his own warband. The Bastard Sons are Chaos Necrontyr, Chaos Astartes and Dark Mechanicum units. Unique gameplay mechanics

[The Neverborn]

On 4/21/2023 at 4:36 AM, Grotsmasha said:

You know, this idea, I don't hate it

 

I'd second that, Be'lakor is one of my favourite 40k things. He'd whoop the Changling's butt if nothing else ;)

I think though Moonreaper, and this is coming from a Daemon player (check my gallery so so mow much ££ i've spent on them). Sometimes our passion for the hobby and or devotion to our chosen faction clouds our objective judgement. While GW will always push how "Amazing", "Overwhelming" a faction is they can't let any factions completely overshadow all others. 

 

I appreciate your love of Daemons Moonreaper and Be'lakor especially but there are other factions that need their moment in the spotlight too. Who knows maybe one day you'll change your mind and pick up another faction and want whatever that is pushed.

 

Edited for clarity.

Edited April 22, 2023 by The Neverborn

[Moonreaper666]

10 hours ago, The Neverborn said:

 

I'd second that, Be'lakor is one of my favourite 40k things. He'd whoop the Changling's butt if nothing else ;)

I think though Moonreaper, and this is coming from a Daemon player (check my gallery so so mow much ££ i've spent on them). Sometimes our passion for the hobby and or devotion to our chosen faction clouds our objective judgement. While GW will always push how "Amazing", "Overwhelming" a faction is they can't let any factions completely overshadow all others. 

 

I appreciate your love of Daemons Moonreaper and Be'lakor especially but there are other factions that need their moment in the spotlight too. Who knows maybe one day you'll change your mind and pick up another faction and want whatever that is pushed.

 

Be'lakor being confirmed as a Necrontyr Daemon Prince prior to the War in Heaven would have MASSIVE RAMMIFICATIONS for the Necrons, Orks, Genestealer Cults, Necrons AND Tau

 

Xeno factions would have new Lore and Tabletop battle sets detailing their fights against their Chaos-tainted brethern

[Scribe]

Thumbs down cannot come soon enough...

[sitnam]

Personally I'd like if they kept Chaos away from the main Xenos factions except as little side stories. I think sometimes the involvement of Chaos overshadows the Xenos races. We still don't have a ton of stories dealing with major Xenos conflicts post-rift

 

Furthermore, the Necrontyr make the least sense for Bel'akors origin. The Old Ones used the warp to fight the C'tan and their subjects, the Necrons even now still have a dim view of the nature of the warp.

[Moonreaper666]

On 4/23/2023 at 2:15 PM, sitnam said:

Personally I'd like if they kept Chaos away from the main Xenos factions except as little side stories. I think sometimes the involvement of Chaos overshadows the Xenos races. We still don't have a ton of stories dealing with major Xenos conflicts post-rift

 

Furthermore, the Necrontyr make the least sense for Bel'akors origin. The Old Ones used the warp to fight the C'tan and their subjects, the Necrons even now still have a dim view of the nature of the warp.

 

Imagine having a lifespan of 40-50 years despite having futuristic technology. Imagine there are aliens that refuse to share the knowledge to immortality and perfect health despite feeling pain everywhere

 

Imagine that there is a way to become immortal and more powerful than several legions worth of your kind. Would you do anything to gain that?

 

In Fantasy, Be'lakor is the First Daemon Prince. He became one by selling out the Old World.

 

Making Be'lakor the FIRST Daemon Prince and originating from the Necrontyr makes him an EXISTENTIAL THREAT to the Necrons, Eldar AND Orks

 

Strangely enough, no Daemon Prince is focused on fight the Eldar, Necrons or Orks in current Lore. At least none I know

 

Necrontyr and Necrons ironically are very human, in a negative way. Selfish, envious and driven to do anything to get what they want

 

Trazyn helped in the forcing of Orikan to be twisted into a Necron. Wouldn't surprise me if Hundreds of Trillions of Necrontyr swear loyalty to Chaos during the Wars of Succession and War in Heaven rather than be Necrons or be defeated by the Old Ones

[Emperor Ming]

How would that even work:/ the necrotyr are millions of years old

 

The chaos gods haven't been around that long, the emperor is older

 

 

[ZeroWolf]

Also chaos isn't really bothered by Necrons for a simple reason. They're soulless already. The C'Tan saw to that. So there is nothing to be gained for Chaos compared to the smorgasbord that is human and Eldar souls. Heck Necrotyr could have been like Tau and have such a small warp presence that the Chaos God's just wouldn't bother with them.

 

I think there's enough chaosified factions without bringing the other xenos into it GW aren't the best at maintaining what we do have after all 

 

Though those old in tooth might remember a long ago time where you could get chaos orks and chaos GSC but this was in the mad days of Rogue Trader.

[The Neverborn]

On 4/26/2023 at 12:09 PM, Emperor Ming said:

How would that even work:/ the necrotyr are millions of years old

 

The chaos gods haven't been around that long, the emperor is older

 

 

 

While object to the idea being proposed I'm not sure this is the case. I believe Be'lakor is actually the oldest named individual in lore. Older than Slaanesh who is also one of his creators. Creating a bizarre paradox, the only answer being "the warp did it", the cause and effect rules of our word not applying there.

[Emperor Ming]

The necron star gods are the oldest

 

The chaos gods didn't exist till about 8000bc, the Emperor being around this time as well, a few thousand years or so gap between the two. 

 

While the Immatertruim has been around since before the fall of the eldar, The eldar gods creating the warp by separating it from realspace, the chaos gods aint that old

 

Being the first daemon prince, Belakor is older than slaanesh so that's something

 

Edited April 29, 2023 by Emperor Ming

[The Neverborn]

I think I can see where you are coming from. Though the warp is so an anethma to logic the normal rules of time can't be applied here. For example Be'lakor being older than one of his creators, as you've acknowledged.

 

I've heard the 8000bc quote or words to that effect before, but I've never managed to find a source for that, maybe you have one Ming? But I can get to that pont later.

 

Conversely I can find quotable evidence to at least one of the Chaos gods existing before it was born. Pg 21ish of the 8th Chaos Daemons codex - Headed with "Slaanesh, The Dark Prince" 5th paragraph.

 

And I'm quoting....

 

"That is how events are viewed from the chronology of the material universe. In the Warp, things are different for the immaterium is not bound by the linear time and events to not occur in a strict sequence of cause then effect. As his rival gods rekcon it, Slaanesh has always existed and yet never existed at all"

 

I suppose you could pick that apart by the reference to as "rival gods reckon it". Though one of them knows all that has been and will be, that opens up another bucket of worms.

 

Wrap your head around that, yes I know it makes no logical sense. But that's the power of something so omnipotent it can exist within paradoxes. That's just the warp.

 

If you were to state from the chronologically of the Material verse, the star gods are older. I'd be forced to agree with you and I do. From the perspective of the warp or the warp and the material verse the Chaos gods are older. Making Be'lakor even older than something that has always existed. Somehow??

 

In terms of the 8000bc reference. I have not doubt that you, or someone else can find it. Leaving is in a situation where the Chaos god are both older and younger than the star golds, possibly Emperor too.

 

Finally there's the ambiguous term of "age" and time passing at different rates in the warp. Which is referenced in numerous books.

Edited April 30, 2023 by The Neverborn

[crimsondave]

It’s a cool idea.  You couldn’t fit it in the existing lore without modification.  That’s hasn’t stopped other things, though.

[Moonreaper666]

On 5/7/2023 at 12:10 PM, crimsondave said:

It’s a cool idea.  You couldn’t fit it in the existing lore without modification.  That’s hasn’t stopped other things, though.

 

'Birth' is a misnomer when it comes to Slaanesh

 

The emotions and thoughts that empower her have always existed. The Fall of the Eldar 'Awaken' her

 

Plus Hammer and Bolter (awful animation but has some good ideas) has a Death Guard manipulate time to WIPEOUT an entire Imperial fleet!

 

Be'lakor was once a Necrontyr who sold his soul to Chaod