Space Marines 10th ed Leviathan Starter set - Space Marines

[jimbo1701]

47 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

 

I mean I know they HAVE sold things at that price point, but it's the nutcases buying it at that price that causes the problem :P

It's a STARTER set.  It should be cheap.  It's just a bummer to see them get more and more pricey.  Indomitus was expensive enough as is, this is definitely going to be more expensive.

I hear you, and it’s going to be a hard pill to swallow for many  given the relative cost of living that exists at present.  Devils advocate: it is pretty much equivalent to indomitus if not a bit more generous model wise. If the cards come in addition to dice then I can see given inflation the past 3 years how they can rationalise it. As with so many things it’s only worth what it’s worth to oneself. 

[jaxom]

1 hour ago, DemonGSides said:

If its over $200 USD that seems like such a non-starter.  I get it, it's two armies in a box, but that's just asking so much.  They should be pricing these super competitively to get more of em sold to new players.

 

I think it's being pitched as two Combat Patrols plus extra models, plus a rulebook, plus accessories. From that perspective, I think it's a really good deal.

[ShibeKing]

I'm going to just sit this one out and see if I can get the Marines via ebay or something. None of my friends want Nids and I can't justify having another unbuilt army sitting in my closet.

[Redcomet]

1 hour ago, DemonGSides said:

 

I mean I know they HAVE sold things at that price point, but it's the nutcases buying it at that price that causes the problem :P

It's a STARTER set.  It should be cheap.  It's just a bummer to see them get more and more pricey.  Indomitus was expensive enough as is, this is definitely going to be more expensive.

It is a launch box NOT a starter set. It is not aimed at beginners

[davextreme]

3 minutes ago, Redcomet said:

It is a launch box NOT a starter set. It is not aimed at beginners

 

What makes you say so?

[Irate Khornate]

I'm pretty sure it's $250. Due to the waiver that had the individual prices on it.

[jimbo1701]

9 minutes ago, davextreme said:

 

What makes you say so?

it’s following the same release trend as indomitus, which gw made clear was a launch box and not a starter set. The 3 tiers of starter set were introduced later. 

[Mogger351]

If we ignore the fact it has more stuff in that indomitus model wise to some degree, it certainly has more "big stuff", it also has the chapter approved mission deck and the crusade book bundled together which I'd expect to be over £45 to buy both after the fact.

 

So ignoring models, the £25 increase on the box isn't even inflation  or anything. If anything it's far more of a loss leader than even indomitus was.

 

Again though, this isn't a "starter product" it's a launch box for vets and people who love a deal.

[DemonGSides]

1 hour ago, Blindhamster said:

But, as others mentioned, basically everything in the UK has gone up, hell, we pay more than 25% extra for our food shops vs pre covid too. It’s all relative

 

If everything had really gone that to hell, why are they more profitable than ever before?  Feels like a really good cover for them to continue to put the screws to consumers for no good reason.

53 minutes ago, jimbo1701 said:

I hear you, and it’s going to be a hard pill to swallow for many  given the relative cost of living that exists at present.  Devils advocate: it is pretty much equivalent to indomitus if not a bit more generous model wise. If the cards come in addition to dice then I can see given inflation the past 3 years how they can rationalise it. As with so many things it’s only worth what it’s worth to oneself. 

 

I don't care HOW they rationalize it, it's silly.  You think they spend anywhere near $200 on the contents of these boxes, well, let me know, cuz I've got a great deal on a bridge for anyone interested :P

 

33 minutes ago, Redcomet said:

It is a launch box NOT a starter set. It is not aimed at beginners

Really weird to advertise two starter boxes (Combat Patrols are literally in the "Start Here" section of GW's webstore), alongside all the stuff a new person to the hobby needs to play it, as a premium product deserving premium prices.

Very strange, indeed!

Edited May 1, 2023 by DemonGSides

[Blindhamster]

6 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

If everything had really gone that to hell, why are they more profitable than ever before?  Feels like a really good cover for them to continue to put the screws to consumers for no good reason.

no, I’m saying inflation has gone crazy, and of course the prices went up, because literally everything has gone up. Expecting a company looking to make money would t also put prices up is naive at best. 
 

would I like to pay less? Sure! But I’m honestly surprised they haven’t put prices up further than they have, there is obviously a limit on how far they’re able to push prices before people say no, they’ve already been able to sell stuff at this price so clearly felt they could get away with it here. Suspect they’re right, but if people vote with their wallet if they’re genuinely unhappy, they’ll get the message. I suspect they’ll sell huge amounts though. 

[Xanthous]

12 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

Really weird to advertise two starter boxes (Combat Patrols are literally in the "Start Here" section of GW's webstore), alongside all the stuff a new person to the hobby needs to play it, as a premium product deserving premium prices.

 

Both sides of Leviathan will be significantly larger than a combat patrol, as was the case with Indomitus. The real starter boxes will be the three tiers of starter box released later, as said by @jimbo1701. Combining the recruit and the elite/command boxes for 9th edition got you roughly a combat patrol, but still excluded quite a lot of miniatures from Indomitus.

 

Indomitus, and Dominion for AoS 3rd edition, weren't starter boxes, and this won't be either.

Edited May 1, 2023 by Xanthous

[jimbo1701]

1 hour ago, DemonGSides said:

I don't care HOW they rationalize it, it's silly.  You think they spend anywhere near $200 on the contents of these boxes, well, let me know, cuz I've got a great deal on a bridge for anyone interested :P

Not on individual production, no, of course not. But on everything that comes before that (design, development, molds) and to turn a profit to keep the business solvent and expanding / satisfying shareholders, they have to set their mark somewhere.
 

£120 was thought to be a lot to some, good value to others at the time. And it sold out. In fact I think it was their biggest individual sale ever. I don’t for a moment expect this to be any different. Everyone has their individual set bar for a luxury product such as this and until such time as they set that bar too high relative to the majority (blood of the Phoenix springs to mind) they will keep charging as much as they can.
 

I actually think £2 a model not counting the rest of the contents is a good deal in this era considering some characters are now £30 each and most multipart infantry near double that per model. 

[Sky Potato]

I've said it before and I'l say it again.

 

This box is (reportedly) 20% LESS than Age of Darkness, which was the last "big" release.

 

AoD has 54 models. With 2 HQ choices. Granted, two of them are a dreadnought and a Spartan. AoD also had the rulebook - but no data sheets or rules for anything in the box, you needed the Libers to play. And they were £40 on release. So you needed £220 on launch day.

 

Leviathan has 72 models. With 3 Marine HQs, and at least 2 Tyranid HQs (I don't think they've confirmed where each unit sits in terms of the Force Org chart. And yes, pedants, I know the FOC is going). It also has a dreadnought - no Spartan equivalent but 4 big bugs which probably works out relatively similar. It has the rule book, the cards and it'll have the data sheets and rules for the included models.

 

And as others have said, this is the limited Launch box, not a starter set. They will come later, going by 9th and AOS.

 

Yes, its expensive. Yes prices have gone up everywhere. Yes I'd prefer it to be cheaper, and I'd prefer it if somebody else paid for it instead of coming out of my wallet.

 

Its also 20% cheaper than last years equivalent box, and that box was already phenomenal value.

[Karhedron]

27 minutes ago, jimbo1701 said:

Everyone has their individual set bar for a luxury product such as this and until such time as they set that bar too high relative to the majority (blood of the Phoenix springs to mind) they will keep charging as much as they can.

 

I think Blood of the Phoenix was an important lesson for GW. It was felt to be too expensive because it contained a lot of old models and most of the new models were plastic versions of existing units.

 

Leviathan on the other hand is all new minis. Not only that, several of the models in here are entirely new units that will be available here before they appear anywhere else. I agree that this will sell well. Will it shift as well as Indomitus? We will have to wait and see.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I'm torn.  I really want the rulebooks, the Libby, and the Apothecary.  The Termies & Captain are a maybe, but I have no use for anything not in Gravis or Terminator armor and Tyranids are my second least-favorite army in the game after the Tau.  If I buy the box, I'm selling or trading away more than half of it so is it worth buying in first place?

 

Quite the conundrum.

[WrathOfTheLion]

There's no way GW spends anywhere near $250 per box, assuming that is its price in USD. Retail stores buy the product at ~55% or so of the cost of the item, so that they can make profit as well. GW is making money off trade sales, which means GW is turning a profit if a store buys it for say, $140. As GW is making a profit off those sales, a $250 item probably costs at most 1/4 to make, for everyone from manufacturing to trade store to make money off the whole thing.

 

Basically every other retail item is like that, the store pays like 80 cents for the candy bar you bought for $2.00 (or whatever it is now), and the candy bar itself was less than 50 cents to manufacture.

[Marshal Mittens]

At $250 it's like 75% off estimated MSRP?

 

That seems like a much better deal than most GW deals?

[Flaherty]

The Necromunda Ash Waste box was $300 for ~30 fiddly models, most smaller than marines, and some nice, but incredibly niche terrain.

 

Kill Team: Into the Dark was $210 for 20 models, some walls, and a paperback rule book.

 

I understand that times are tight, and my eyes pop when I see my utilities bills, but relative to other recent boxes that served as edition starters Leviathan is an objectively good value within the Warhammer pricing universe.

[LittlePlasticHomies]

This is definitely a box aimed at people who love this stuff (the same kind who post on niche interest forums about it).

 

At the end of the day large swaths of people in this specific demo are going to be cost tolerant - just like anyone who’s super invested in their hobby. 
 

Some (individual) golf clubs cost north of $800USD, a pair of premium skis will ride past $1500. It’s not entry level and it’s not for everyone but it’s not atypical either.

 

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by LittlePlasticHomies

[DemonGSides]

Don't get me started on how over priced terrain is.

[Lord_Ikka]

I'll be splitting one with a buddy who wants the extra Nids (he'll be buying a full box as well), so it hitting at $250-ish is a good deal for me. For about $140 I'll be getting a lot of stuff that I don't already have, which is a nice change from a lot of the value-boxes that GW does.

 

Termie Captain and Librarian - Great sculpts, really invoke the classic feel of older termie HQs

Primaris LT - A decent-looking Phobos LT, could easily be used as a count-as for a Reiver LT 

Gravis Apothecary - It will be interesting to find out what he will do compared to his Tacticus-armored brother

New Termies - Don't have any termies in my primaris army yet, so I like that I get some classic-looking but better proportioned termies

Sternguard - Another unit that my Primaris-only army doesn't have, and I like that they are continuing the look of the Bladeguard tabards

Infernus squad - Nothing better than a wave of fire to clear out heretics and xenos. Two squads of five will make for a nice little speed-bump for horde lists.

Ballistus Dread - My favorite box-dread loadout on a Redemptor chassis, perfection. 

 

With the current prices of GW models, I'd be looking at around $415 for the SM half (40 each for the characters, 60 for the squads, and 75 for the dread), so at $140-ish I will be getting the models at a third of the price that they would be otherwise, not including the main rulebook, mission cards, and the crusade rulebook. I'd expect the Nid half to be the same price, or likely even higher given the amount of units it has. It's a pretty great deal, and would still be worth it even if the box price was $300. 

[Shinn]

I'm getting a full box for myself and splitting another with a friend to help him out. Price wasn't as bad as I was expecting plus I've gotten a raise at work. Worked out well. Lol

[Burni]

It’s tempting for me to get a second box but then I remember I thought the same with 8th and 9th and ended up with a lot of same-y looking troops and other units missing their better weapon options. So I bought the multiparts as well and now I’m approaching legion strength…
 

It also means the inevitable magazine will have even less appeal (and I was going to sub as my son is starting to collect nids)

[MegaVolt87]

This is a better box than Indomitus was, but I'm not convinced 10th will save 40k like 9th was claimed at release by the community, look how 9th turned out. 

[Mogger351]

39 minutes ago, MegaVolt87 said:

This is a better box than Indomitus was, but I'm not convinced 10th will save 40k like 9th was claimed at release by the community, look how 9th turned out. 

I'm not sure it needs "saving" as such? If it reduces the brain drain and volume of sheer stuff then that'll do me.