Wh40k 10th Edition Faction Focus: Space Marines

[ChapterMasterGodfrey]

1 minute ago, TheMawr said:

they are Spacemarine faction

I think it's open to interpretation whether or not Blood Angels (& DA, SW, DW etc) ARE faction: Space Marines in 10th. They were in 9th, yes. I've seen more things point me in the direction that they'll be their own factions again. 

[Arkhanist]

Seems likely, but maybe not for the launch index, pre codex setup where it feels like they're mostly going to be red/green/baby blue marines initially.

[ChapterMasterGodfrey]

1 minute ago, Arkhanist said:

it feels like they're mostly going to be red/green/baby blue marines initially.

I don't like to complain but that really sucks. Blood Angels weren't on the codex map, so we're not getting a book until summer 2024 earliest. Do we have to be Red Ultramarines for at least one year out of a three year edition? 

[Arkhanist]

9 minutes ago, ChapterMasterGodfrey said:

I don't like to complain but that really sucks. Blood Angels weren't on the codex map, so we're not getting a book until summer 2024 earliest. Do we have to be Red Ultramarines for at least one year out of a three year edition? 

 

Oh it definitely sucks if that's how it pans out. I'm already peeved about thunderhammers going to D2 and the general move towards tanks being really hard to take down by infantry and melee infantry in particular. Tho to be honest, I think that a good BA list won't just be spamming Death Company and Sanguinary Guard is a good thing in general; I just hope BA will still actually be a] thematic and b] not crap. Hope lives eternal and all that. But until 10th actually drops, who knows.

[BitsHammer]

2 hours ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

Yes, but the attached statement is also

 

"This battle-tested formation is available to every Space Marine Chapter, whether they’re slavish adherents of the Codex Astartes or slightly more eccentric.*"

So we know they all get the Gladius strike force. We know they'll get their own detachments, but it remains to be seen what is available at index launch. If the special ones are saved for the Codex, then the faction article would be uninteresting.

Unless I missed something the Gladius Strike Force is a detachment. They can't both get that and a unique detachment when everyone is only getting a single detachment each.

[Bradeh]

23 minutes ago, BitsHammer said:

Unless I missed something the Gladius Strike Force is a detachment. They can't both get that and a unique detachment when everyone is only getting a single detachment each.

 

Because Space Marines are the only faction with sub-factions at the moment it works differently, they all seemingly get Oath of Moment and Gladius and then they also get anything divergent on top, if you choose to use it. 

Edited May 15, 2023 by Bradeh

[Karhedron]

30 minutes ago, Bradeh said:

Because Space Marines are the only faction with sub-factions at the moment it works differently, they all seemingly get Oath of Moment and Gladius and then they also get anything divergent on top, if you choose to use it. 

 

I think not so much "on top" as instead of. For example, if you want to lean heaviy into the BA playstyle, you might take a hypothetical "Carmine Blade" detachment. You might then get a "Descent of Angels" ability but you would lose on "Oath of Moment".

 

At least that is how they seem to have been describing it.

[Rain]

Just now, Karhedron said:

 

I think not so much "on top" as instead of. For example, if you want to lean heaviy into the BA playstyle, you might take a hypothetical "Carmine Blade" detachment. You might then get a "Descent of Angels" ability but you would lose on "Oath of Moment".

 

At least that is how they seem to have been describing it.

Pretty sure the “big” Marine chapters like BA, DA, SW, and BT are being treated as entirely separate armies, with their own faction rule (replacing OoM), detachment(s), units, etc. Within a given army, the faction rule doesn’t change with detachment change, only the detachment rule does.

 

So, for regular marines, all of the detachments would have OoM, but the detachment rule would change to represent bike-loving marines, vs. flamer loving marines, etc.

 

Blood Angels would not have OoM or any if the regular Marine detachments, as they would be their own faction. This is how they have already shown it done with World Eaters vs Chaos Space Marines.

[VengefulJan]

2 hours ago, ChapterMasterGodfrey said:

If it was me in charge (god help us all), Yes I'd have Blood Angels have Red Thirst replace OOM and keep doctrines. For me, Red Thirst being genetically ingraned in all sons of Sanguinius should supercede everything. 

 

I agree with this, whole heartedly.

 

I suspect, and this is based soley on what they said in the detachment article, that they will all have their own Default Detachment (i.e. "Decent of Angels", "Combined Wings", "Wolf Pack?", etc.) when the Indexes drop that they can swap with GSF. During that time they will still have OoM.  When the codex drops, they will then have their own Army Rule that replaces Oath of Moment. They will also have several detachments available in their Codex, including Gladius Strike Force.

 

The only reason I would find it difficult for them to launch with their unique Army Rule on day 1 would be because of the fine balancing they're trying to do with ALL of the space marine units currently available.

 

Personally, I'd be fine with omitting certain units from certain armies, as they seem to be content with doing that with chaos right now... unless they're gonna change that!

[Lemondish]

4 hours ago, VengefulJan said:

When the codex drops, they will then have their own Army Rule that replaces Oath of Moment.

 

I suspect that would also require them to have their own set of data cards independent from the Codex Space Marine set. After all, key unit abilities can be tied directly to Oath of Moment, as we saw with Terminators, which would not make sense if you replaced Oath.

[VengefulJan]

@Lemondish Exactly, meaning that if you want to play Deathwatch, you only need 1 book/spread. It gives them the ability to have a ruleset completely detached from Codex Space Marines. Grey Knights are already in this boat, same as the Chaos Legions, old codices used to be like this, solidifying the rules between the marine codices allows them more rule control as well; You can have stat differences between certain specialty units if you wanted to, with weapons and such, or just keep it simple by giving them different ability rules.

[BitsHammer]

6 hours ago, Bradeh said:

 

Because Space Marines are the only faction with sub-factions at the moment it works differently, they all seemingly get Oath of Moment and Gladius and then they also get anything divergent on top, if you choose to use it. 

It's not on top. If you want another detachment you replace the whole thing, which means you have different detachment rules, stratagems and enhancements.

[WrathOfTheLion]

1 hour ago, Lemondish said:

 

I suspect that would also require them to have their own set of data cards independent from the Codex Space Marine set. After all, key unit abilities can be tied directly to Oath of Moment, as we saw with Terminators, which would not make sense if you replaced Oath.

They did mention that you do not need the Codex Space Marines cards or Codex to play, iirc.

[Emperor Ming]

2 minutes ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

They did mention that you do not need the Codex Space Marines cards or Codex to play, iirc.

Is there a quote about not needing codexs?

 

Codex sales produce huge profit spikes 

 

and gw love profit

 

I saw that you don't need the index cards

[WrathOfTheLion]

25 minutes ago, Emperor Ming said:

Is there a quote about not needing codexs?

 

Codex sales produce huge profit spikes 

 

and gw love profit

 

I saw that you don't need the index cards

I meant to play Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, etc. They said you'd need Codex: Blood Angels to play for instance, you don't both it and Codex: Space Marines.

 

Sorry if that wasn't clear.

[spessmarine]

Seems a bit odd to not do faction focuses for them, even if it was just Focus: Snowflake Chapters all in one article.
I feel codex divergence replaces OoM, sure would be nice though if an article would clear up what defines SW/BA/DA/etc in 10th!

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

7 hours ago, spessmarine said:

Seems a bit odd to not do faction focuses for them, even if it was just Focus: Snowflake Chapters all in one article.

 

Those Facebook posts don't actually rule this out as they said no "Individual" article for those chapters. So some hope yet for some more information (obligatory quotes about roads and disappointment commence).

[Captain Idaho]

10 hours ago, Emperor Ming said:

Is there a quote about not needing codexs?

 

Codex sales produce huge profit spikes 

 

and gw love profit

 

I saw that you don't need the index cards

 

I was thinking on this... I think they used clever words.

 

They're expanding on the cards system that already exist, so you can buy them and not need a Codex as they cover things more fully. But the Codex system will still exist.

 

How that fits in with the sub-factions of BA, DA, SW etc I have no idea. Will they just be a sub-Codex that signposts to Codex Space Marines but you can just use those cards? Or will GW repeat all the information in the Codex books?

 

They've done both historically so who knows.

[DemonGSides]

I'd guess that if I buy "Blood Angels Info Cards", it'll have all the dataslates for any unit that applies to that codex of Blood Angels that released at the same time (or Index, for launch).  I won't need to buy Space Marines Info Cards.

New units will probably come packed in with their card, I would think.

[Karhedron]

On 5/9/2023 at 8:58 PM, Karhedron said:

On another note, the Relic Shield adding +1W is quite interesting. I wonder if this is unique for models that already have an Invulnerable save. Will Storm Shields continue to provide an Invulnerable save or will they also go to +1W?

 

Just noticed that the Tau Shield Drone has also gone to a +1 Wound rule. Looks like this might be a common approach to wargear that previous granted an Invulnerable save.

 

[jaxom]

1 hour ago, Karhedron said:

 

Just noticed that the Tau Shield Drone has also gone to a +1 Wound rule. Looks like this might be a common approach to wargear that previous granted an Invulnerable save.

 

Maybe? I thought it was more of an elegant solution to tanking wounds on drones. Instead of passing them off, a unit just has ablative wounds to chew through if they take shield drones.

[BitsHammer]

So non-codex chapters will be getting article next week

 

 

Edit: of course right after I dig that up WHC had this in the weekly preview:

Edited May 28, 2023 by BitsHammer
Typo

[bigtrouble]

Titans? Oh boy. What fun. 

[ThePenitentOne]

Well, I'll take a post to air my complaints and dissatisfaction. I'll try to keep it short- not here to rain overmuch on the space marine party, I just feel the need to say it once.

 

It appears that what I had suspected when GW announced the disappearance of subfactions- what they meant was the disappearance of subfactions for everyone but marines. I mean, thre CSM Legions get to keep their identities too I guess, so it could be worse.

 

Everyone else?

 

Back to your 2nd-7th status as second class armies that don't merit detail beyond "fluff" pieces in an obscure section of the dex that have zero impact on the game. Want Sam-Hain Eldar where nothing but aspect warriors to show up without a bike to be found? Go ahead, because, because Sam-Hain is just a paint job now. Oh sure, we gave them a nice little fluffy piece of text that doesn't actually mean anything... But that's good enough for you right? Best get painting up my Iyanden Swordwind detachment now, because why not?

 

Otherwise those poor players of the real factions would have too much "cognitive burden" if they wanted to hard counter you in list building or game play itself.

 

Oh what's that? You're concerned that YOU still have cognitive burden when figuring out how to deal with them? Well that's okay, right? I mean it was business as usual from 2nd to 7th- aren't you used to it by now?

 

That all factions can be equal thing? That was an anomaly- a temporary blip on the radar screen. A pipe dream. A tease.

 

(And if I turn out to be wrong on FF Snowflake day, this will be the tastiest Crow I've had to eat in a long time)

[Doghouse]

1 hour ago, BitsHammer said:

Edit: of course right after I dig that up WHC had this in the weekly preview:

 

Dare I say it...plastic Warhound? 

 

Ok reset the clock...

 

All joking aside I am looking forward to Imperial Agents though.