Wh40k 10th Edition Faction Focus: Space Marines

[Marshal Reinhard]

2 hours ago, jaxom said:

Greyfax's combi-weapon has the profile we've been seeing plus the condemnor stake as a separate profile. Makes me think I was right about the profile we've been seeing refers only to the bolt-portion and the other half is selected from an Armoury.

This is very interesting. Then the multitude of special rules is actually meant to mimic special issue ammo ala sternguard?

[jaxom]

45 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

This is very interesting. Then the multitude of special rules is actually meant to mimic special issue ammo ala sternguard?

That’s what I’ve been thinking. The first time I saw the profile, my mind went straight to Hellfire rounds. It also means that the Sternguard can resolve the bolt hits as one set after rolling to hit.

[Vardus]

I think we have to be careful here, the way I read the  ranged attacks are;

 

Castigation = a PSYCHIC attack

Condemner Stake = a ranged weapon

 

I am more than happy to be wrong though 

[Kallas]

21 minutes ago, Vardus said:

Castigation = a PSYCHIC attack

Condemner Stake = a ranged weapon

Yup, Castigation is not part of the Combi-Weapon, it's Greyfax's offensive psychic power.

 

The Condemnor Stake seems to be the whole Combi-Weapon in one profile, not just the bolter part, since it's got Anti-Psyker 2+ and Precision - I don't think reading into it as all CWs are going to be two-part weapons is reasonable. Hope for it? Sure, but don't expect it: nothing we've seen so far (bar the Tactical Squad back-of-datasheet, which is still using 9e terms) suggests that CWs are anything but what we've seen on the Terminator Captain and Terminator Librarian so expecting it to be different has no evidence to back it up so far.

[marspeople]

Why do the new Termys have an option to take a Heavy Flamer but there isn't one on the new sprue?

Same for the chainfist actually.

 

Are we assuming there is going to be a different non monopose kit later with more options?

Edited May 31, 2023 by marspeople

[Khornestar]

15 minutes ago, marspeople said:

Why do the new Termys have an option to take a Heavy Flamer but there isn't one on the new sprue?

Same for the chainfist actually.

 

Are we assuming there is going to be a different non monopose kit later with more options?

Maybe that, or maybe it’s to be able to use the old kit/loadout.

[Tokugawa]

19 minutes ago, marspeople said:

Why do the new Termys have an option to take a Heavy Flamer but there isn't one on the new sprue?

Same for the chainfist actually.

 

Are we assuming there is going to be a different non monopose kit later with more options?

Or the retail version box has this sprue + a weapon sprue.

[Kallas]

33 minutes ago, marspeople said:

Why do the new Termys have an option to take a Heavy Flamer but there isn't one on the new sprue?

Same for the chainfist actually.

 

Are we assuming there is going to be a different non monopose kit later with more options?

 

Yes, the datasheet is for the old sprue, which had those options, and for the new multipart kit, which will most likely have those options too.

[zero888]

With all these twitch reveals going on has there been any indication if the unit size for Outriders/Eliminators/Suppressors etc has been upped to 6?

[Brother_Angelus]

4 hours ago, zero888 said:

With all these twitch reveals going on has there been any indication if the unit size for Outriders/Eliminators/Suppressors etc has been upped to 6?

I'd be stoked with 6 man Outriders and getting a detachment to make them battle line. White Scars and Ravenwing would rejoice.

[Khornestar]

I realize this isn’t the ironclad proof some would require, but the goonhammer review essentially seals the fate of combi-weapons:

 

There is no special weapon component. The profile we see is the profile of the weapon. It is done. React accordingly, but I would temper any expectation of seeing the special weapon component return until next edition, if at all.

 

See the lieutenant and sternguard sections:

 

https://www.goonhammer.com/goonhammer-reviews-warhammer-40000-10th-edition-bonus-leviathan-unit-datasheets/

[Kallas]

1 minute ago, Khornestar said:

I realize this isn’t the ironclad proof some would require, but the goonhammer review essentially seals the fate of combi-weapons

It's 100% a done deal, from the Tabletop Tactics "How to Play 10th Edition" video:

Spoiler

 

Captain can replace their Storm Bolter with 1 Combi-Weapon. Not one from the CW list, or giving a list of ones to choose, just "1 combi-weapon", which is the profile on the front of the sheet.

[War of the Eagle]

 I wish combi weapons where 2 profiles either choose your fire mode or chose which one when you buy it. One for anti infantry 4+ and one for anti tank 4+. 

 

But over all I'm quite fine with this edition of combi weapons. 

[Kallas]

2 minutes ago, War of the Eagle said:

 I wish combi weapons where 2 profiles either choose your fire mode or chose which one when you buy it. One for anti infantry 4+ and one for anti tank 4+. 

I wish they were what they are: a bolter and a special weapon. We have One-Shot as a rule on other weapons, it would not be difficult to implement, but GW is determined to treat players like drooling idiots who cannot keep track of anything or be trusted with anything vaguely resembling complexity. 10e CWs are crap at representing what they actually are.

[Khornestar]

Shrug. That’s the salty take, I guess. I’m good with it.

[zero888]

Core rules example datasheet says combi-weapons list. It could be just an oversight if they have been removed, so take it with a grain of salt 

[ZeroWolf]

I'm also okay with it, but I can understand why others don't. Ultimately I'll play the game either way 

[ZeroWolf]

7 minutes ago, zero888 said:

Core rules example datasheet says combi-weapons list. It could be just an oversight if they have been removed, so take it with a grain of salt 

That sheet isn't in the official core rules however, it's a very generic example instead.

[Karhedron]

Looks like die is cast. I get why some people are upset but I am not too bothered. Combi weapon squads have been kinda sidelined by Hellblasters, Eradicators and Infernus squads. Grav Guns haven't been that good since 8th edition either. 

[Vardus]

The Index combi weapons could just be a holdover until Codex releases. The data cards will be replaced by Codex data cards which could offer pre 10th type combi weapons.

 

I do think that it would be weird though, learning the new 10th profile and then getting a new profile, whilst some still indexed armies have the 10th profile. (that's a lot of profile! )

[Rain]

Eh, overall I like the generification of weapons options. Having lots of different special weapons is nice and all, but it’s annoying when rules churn makes your loadout bad, or, even worse, illegal. 
 

Just having “accursed weapons” or “heavy melee weapons” or “combi weapons” is better, in my opinion. It also opens up modeling opportunities in some cases. Not being able to give a dude a mace because power maces had their own rules apart from swords and axes, and the rules were absolute grot dung, was sad.

I get that some flavor is lost in abstraction, but, to me, the flavor is moreso in the units and army rules, and not necessarily what each individual weapon is called, or how exactly it works.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Edit: I was talking Chaos but this is the SM Index thread.  My bad.

Edited June 4, 2023 by Iron Father Ferrum

[Dr. Clock]

3 hours ago, War of the Eagle said:

One for anti infantry 4+ and one for anti tank 4+.

Across the board it looks like 'special weapons' basically aren't intended to be too threatening to armour, at least in terms of strength.

 

Given this new baked-in limitation, combi-weapons more clearly specializing vs infantry (while still having some mortal potential into anything) makes good sense. 

 

If people just aren't excited about the increase in 'distance' between infantry and armour/monsters, I get that, but lower impact special weapons is one of the levers you have to pull to create that higher end of tough units, and I'm looking forward to the challenge. 

 

I certainly understand a bit of the letdown feeling but I, for one, am also looking forward to less complexity in the unit options across the board, because it gives less opportunities for weird efficiencies and niche builds to become so normalized that we see some things too often and others... never. As happened for melta vs everything in the last good while tbh.

 

I'm excited for Stenguard. I love a good 'elite bolter dudes' unit, and they look like they fill the niche. Curious what's gonna happen to my 4 Salamanders sternguard w/ heavy flamers tho... Guess I can use them together with a combi-sarge as Infernus squad if needs be. I suppose using oldmarines for a Primaris unit was bound to happen at some point ; )

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

 

 

[Captain Idaho]

So looking at the Goonhammer review, Sternguard get Devastating Hits on all their ranged attacks, or at least all their bolter weapons?

 

Well that makes the unit amazing and also kills the only place Combi Weapons might be worthwhile.

 

I'm happy I got 8 Sternguard ready to do some killing, at least.

 

[Lemondish]

5 hours ago, Kallas said:

I wish they were what they are: a bolter and a special weapon. We have One-Shot as a rule on other weapons, it would not be difficult to implement, but GW is determined to treat players like drooling idiots who cannot keep track of anything or be trusted with anything vaguely resembling complexity. 10e CWs are crap at representing what they actually are.

 

I think it's actually a modelling concession, not a rules complexity one. In this new combi-weapon world, kits with few available bits to equip the 'preferred' option don't become a feels-bad moment when you build what is in the box but it isn't 'The Best™'. The old Sternguard kit was fantastic for giving every option, but nearly everywhere else the actual bit choices are super limited. For example, you can only get the combi-melta for Terminator Librarians these days, so if you wanna throw it onto a Captain you gotta buy two expensive single-characters to even get the bits, or turn to a third party (not the preferred outcome for GW, obviously).

 

As an aside, this narrative that this new edition is devoid of complexity is starting to become a meme with how overly hyperbolic this nonsense has become. It would help a lot of folks if you could better articulate your concerns lest this narrative also be ignored in favour of actual discussion rather than just nonsensical memery.