Wh40k 10th Edition Faction Focus: Space Marines

[Lexington]

26 minutes ago, sandrorect said:

So they can create more units and more options so we can buy more models.

I don’t think there’s a lot of relationship between army/force-wide special rules and the ability to create more models.

 

10th has some nice moves thus far, but I’m not liking now they’re sneaking all the old special rules complexity of 9th Ed Codexes in through the back door of a multi-layer army building system, all while claiming how “streamlined” it’s going to be because the top layer of the system isn’t as singularly complex.

[Ahzek451]

3 minutes ago, mecanojavi99 said:

So we still don't know how Subfactions will work, meaning, what's the difference between playing Salamanders and Iron Hands? Maybe it works like 9th edition Guard where the Chapter/Regiment is meaningless and you just choose a Detachment?

 

Too soon to say, but my fears about loosing flavour for the different Subfactions remains the same.

Codex's will apparently have this feature when they arrive. Pick a detachment that corresponds to your chapter/legion/etc. What we are getting now is similar to 8th edition launch, generic rules until the codex drops. I think the difference now being, there were will some extra detachments to pick from, so an Iron hands army does not have to pick the detachment that best suits them, but I would like to hear more details on this, because I wonder if this extra freedom means facing a clearly painted iron hands army could play the detachment that clearly correlates with white scars. 

And then I wonder if certain armies will have a list of specific detachments. Iron hands could have a MARCH OF THE ANCIENTS detachment that focuses on walkers, and then a HAIL THE MACHINE detachment that focuses on tanks. Who knows. Again I am more curious if the freedom to flip between detachments will be more prevailant this edition than before. 

[Subtleknife]

So with his sword, I do 2 mortal wounds instead of normal damage to the target with each 6 rolled?

 

I love everything, especially GMan - I really think they captured his best general in the imperium vibe at the strategic/operational level. 

 

Only think I don't like is the doctrines. I have never liked doctrines tbf. These ones just don't feel great...but maybe that is the same for all faction in which case that is fine.

[Indy Techwisp]

1 minute ago, Ahzek451 said:

Codex's will apparently have this feature when they arrive. Pick a detachment that corresponds to your chapter/legion/etc. What we are getting now is similar to 8th edition launch, generic rules until the codex drops. I think the difference now being, there were will some extra detachments to pick from, so an Iron hands army does not have to pick the detachment that best suits them, but I would like to hear more details on this, because I wonder if this extra freedom means facing a clearly painted iron hands army could play the detachment that clearly correlates with white scars. 

And then I wonder if certain armies will have a list of specific detachments. Iron hands could have a MARCH OF THE ANCIENTS detachment that focuses on walkers, and then a HAIL THE MACHINE detachment that focuses on tanks. Who knows. Again I am more curious if the freedom to flip between detachments will be more prevailant this edition than before. 

 

According to earlier posts "paint doesn't matter", so a White Scars painted Army running the Detachment that's all-in on Heavy Infantry and Dreadnaughts is A-ok, it's the same as having a 9th ed Guard army full of Kreigers and not using Cult of Sacrifice as your Regiment Doctrine.

[sairence]

40 minutes ago, marspeople said:

Does this mean Gulliman gets 21 attacks?

Yeah, that seems mad.

[Indy Techwisp]

13 minutes ago, CCE1981 said:

Guilliman looking like a Primarch, though he can still die in one turn.  Hopefully the ‘can only take x damage a phase’ is gone.  That is so annoying.

 

Looking at the provided rules, Guilliman has a chance to just get back up if he's killed, so hopefully that mitigates any alpha-striking a bit.

[acrozatarim]

So they decided to make primarchs terrifying in melee.

 

I certainly hope he costs the points to match!

[Special Officer Doofy]

19 minutes ago, marspeople said:

I wish there was some clarification on if you get to attack with all melee weapons or only one.

21 attacks for Guilliman seems kinda mad.

 

Mortarion already had 21, and Angron even more. Can't wait to see their sheets. Primarchs are about to be blenders!

[Frogian]

i'm all good with chapter not really mattering (outside SW/BA/DA at least) - an imperial fist bike force has more in common with a white scars bike force than it does an imperial fist siege line. you can get flavour from the focus you construct your army around. 

 

with the land raider, the godhammer lascannon has 2A, but it also has two of them. i assume that means 4A overall (and being able to split between two targets)?

[Captain Idaho]

So the Doctrines rules seem... meh. Who on earth advances their heavy weapons anyway and how does that thematically represent Devastator concepts?

 

Also, once per game? Seems like a selection of situational rules I don't care to keep track of.

 

Oath of Moment is very nice though. Incredibly powerful especially with Terminators. Led by Guilliman.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Just now, Captain Idaho said:

So the Doctrines rules seem... meh. Who on earth advances their heavy weapons anyway and how does that thematically represent Devastator concepts?

 

Also, once per game? Seems like a selection of situational rules I don't care to keep track of.

 

Oath of Moment is very nice though. Incredibly powerful especially with Terminators. Led by Guilliman.

I don't think they're that situational, Assault Doctrine being advance and charge can be real good.

 

The Dark Angels Ravenwing super doctrine does advance and shoot all weapons like assault weapons, and it's currently really good, so I think that one is not situational as well.

 

This is army-wide as well, for a whole turn.

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah but in my Terminator, Dreadnought and Tactical squad army, I might not need to move my heavy weapons at all. Or against Tau I might not need to retreat from melee.

 

In fact, even against armies that those abilities are useful against, the whole army is going to be affected by the rule when only 1 or 2 units will need to utilise them.

 

I dunno, seems like keeping track of a special rule for little benefit most of the time.

[Borbarad]

14 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

So the Doctrines rules seem... meh. Who on earth advances their heavy weapons anyway and how does that thematically represent Devastator concepts?

 

Also, once per game? Seems like a selection of situational rules I don't care to keep track of.

 

Oath of Moment is very nice though. Incredibly powerful especially with Terminators. Led by Guilliman.

Both fall back and shoot and even more so advance and charge are incredibly powerful in 9th 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Borbarad

[CCE1981]

14 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

Looking at the provided rules, Guilliman has a chance to just get back up if he's killed, so hopefully that mitigates any alpha-striking a bit.

He always had that, and it was always on a die roll.  This edition he gets back 6 wounds, so no rolling there.  

[arnesh88]

I like the doctrines focused on maneuverability instead of "numbers get bigger brrrrrr".

[ThePenitentOne]

27 minutes ago, Lexington said:

 

10th has some nice moves thus far, but I’m not liking now they’re sneaking all the old special rules complexity of 9th Ed Codexes in through the back door of a multi-layer army building system, all while claiming how “streamlined” it’s going to be because the top layer of the system isn’t as singularly complex.

 

It's ONE rule for faction + ONE rule for detachment. 

 

If you pick BA/ SW/ DA, you get a different rule for faction, but it's still ONE rule- it replaces Oath of Moment.

 

If you pick a different detachment, you'll get a different rule, but it will still be ONE rule. It will replace Doctrines.

 

If you want less flavour than that, might I suggest checkers? It's really super balanced. No codex creep either.

[Metzombie]

12 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

So the Doctrines rules seem... meh. Who on earth advances their heavy weapons anyway and how does that thematically represent Devastator concepts?

Devastator Doctrine is not only heavy weapons. It works with all weapons. Your Terminators can advance and shoot. And so an your dreads and Tacticals.

[phandaal]

2 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

Yeah but in my Terminator, Dreadnought and Tactical squad army, I might not need to move my heavy weapons at all. Or against Tau I might not need to retreat from melee.

 

In fact, even against armies that those abilities are useful against, the whole army is going to be affected by the rule when only 1 or 2 units will need to utilise them.

 

I dunno, seems like keeping track of a special rule for little benefit most of the time.

 

Looks pretty strong to me. The ability to pick what you want, when you want will make it shine.

 

One example: Jump into Assault for advance and charge to get stuck in. Then once you are stuck in, switch to Tactical to let you fall back, shoot, and charge again.

 

You can probably think of an army that would not work in this specific scenario, but being able to mix and match the three will give options for whatever army you play.

[BluejayJunior]

6 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

Yeah but in my Terminator, Dreadnought and Tactical squad army, I might not need to move my heavy weapons at all. Or against Tau I might not need to retreat from melee.

 

In fact, even against armies that those abilities are useful against, the whole army is going to be affected by the rule when only 1 or 2 units will need to utilise them.

 

I dunno, seems like keeping track of a special rule for little benefit most of the time.

Idk, I see them as being quite powerful.

Devastator doctrine - entire army advances and can still shoot, giving you better board presence with no loss to offensive output.

Assault Doctrine - melee units all advance and charge, allowing you to really close the distance to a gunline and get into your opponents face, slowing them down or pinning them into their deployment

Tactical Doctrine - after your units have been engaged, shooty units can break off combat to gun down the unit or fire on a different unit; melee units can fall back and engage a new target (possibly allowing shooting units to finish them off) or recharge the unit to fight first (assuming it works like 9th edition)

 

all three might be useful in every game, but I'd bet at least 2 of them will be huge in most games

[ZeroWolf]

I'm really happy with how Gman turned out, though I'm now stuck with which weapon to put on my redemptor as devastating wounds is tasty...but surely the plasma cannon will be good...right? It was supposed to be an anti-tank weapon but maybe anti-infatry will be better.

[LostTemplar]

I like the fact that there is no mention of Black Templars in the article.

 

I think that these doctrines should be always active, and just changed once per turn, once rather than being usable once per game.

[Ammonius]

I don't think I know enough to be sure about the Doctrines. Maybe Devastator Doctrine might come in handy on turn 3, when you suddenly need to move units from where they have been to where they need to be but want to also do some shooting along the way? 

[Noserenda]

Your subfaction has exactly as much character as it did before, its your unit choices and modelling that count, not +1 s on the charge.

Interesting that Guiliman cant ride in a land raider though.

[Scribe]

1 hour ago, Lexington said:

Not loving that they’re bringing a similar amount of special rules back to armies via Detachments. Why do they feel the need to do this?

 

Yeah, I'm not getting the impression that they dialed back on the systems/layers at all.

[Skywrath]

Very solid set of changes so far, and I'm looking forward to trying the new doctrines out.. It seems they are going with the route of removing AP, to make the edition less killy. That being said, I'm curious to see what the new Lion datasheet would look like, because if G-mans aura can be taken by any ADEPTUS ASTARTES I'm having a hard time seeing the Lion beat that. LR's being viable again in competitive, excellent change, loving it - I like the slight nod calling the lascannons godhammer pattern.

Edited May 2, 2023 by Skywrath