Wh40k 10th Edition Faction Focus: Space Marines

[Marshal Reinhard]

  On 5/2/2023 at 3:26 PM, Lemondish said:

Big, heavy tank weapon, designed to kill other tank.

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Also, vehicle toughness has gone up across the board.

[Frogian]

  On 5/2/2023 at 3:22 PM, sandrorect said:

 

There is no subfaction anymore. Only 1 detachmet rule, 4 enhances (or more exactly 3 of 4) and 6 stratagems.

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atm yes, i meant once we get to having codices for SW/BA/DA etc - i.e. at most you have a detachment rule and a faction or sub-faction rule e.g. oath of moment  (i guess at the point of individual codices you can argue they are no longer sub factions)

[phandaal]

  On 5/2/2023 at 2:48 PM, Captain Idaho said:

In 10th those Doctrines could be really good, but without further context I'm not excited about keeping track of them at all.

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One good thing about these new doctrines is you do not have to keep track of them. You actively decide when to use them, so there will be no more forgetting that you have X doctrine active. One less piece of mental bookkeeping.

[Lemondish]

  On 5/2/2023 at 3:28 PM, Marshal Reinhard said:

Also, vehicle toughness has gone up across the board.

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Not to mention the terrain rules made it seem like it was a lot easier for you to use ruins to block line of sight in that they didn't need to be a particular size or whatever to do so.

 

I feel like tank hunters like this are going to be the type of weapon platform that jockeys against the opponent for tasty firing lanes, making positioning a little bit more important for both folks. You wouldn't want to expose your armour to a heavy laser destroyer, but it also gains a benefit to its accuracy by staying still, which in turn means all the points thrown into it for those supplementary ancillary weaponry, and its transport capacity, all end up wasted if you're just camping a lane or staying at range.

 

Lancers are probably going to be scary. Mobility and one job to do: hunt armour.

[Mogger351]

  On 5/2/2023 at 2:51 PM, Scribe said:

 

Mostly because they kept in Strats, and I wanted them fired into the sun. ;)

 

We still have Auras, look at Rob. Its up to GW to keep themselves in check, and they have a history of only being able to restrain themselves when it comes to keeping Chaos boring.

We still have Faction -> Detachment/Formation levels of rules, instead of just at the Faction level.

We are still seeing Rerolls, unless again GW keeps themselves in check.

Units are going to have more rules.

We will still have Warlord/Relics, which is fine.

 

Mostly, I wanted Strats gone and while they are starting with a noble goal, I dont trust GW to keep themselves from adding more, and we already have all the layers, if not the depth to each layer, as you have described.

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Roboute has an aura in an ability where he can pick 1 of 3 effects, so it's an optional aura with a cost. It's (I think) the only aura seen so far?
I've just shown that faction + detachment are fewer rules, importantly far fewer variables

There is a dramatic reduction in rerolls contrary to the frequent trolling posts

Units don't seem to have that many more than they used to? They're just all on the unit now instead of being spread about and handed out via strats/characters.

 

I really don't understand the complaint, there is demonstrably fewer layers of stuff and when presented with that information, I don't consider "oh but there are still some rerolls" as a valid point to complain about. It sounds like you need to go back and try 3rd ed as an honest suggestion.

[Frogian]

  On 5/2/2023 at 3:31 PM, phandaal said:

 

One good thing about these new doctrines is you do not have to keep track of them. You actively decide when to use them, so there will be no more forgetting that you have X doctrine active. One less piece of mental bookkeeping.

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i'm perfectly capable of picking a doctrine in my command phase and forgetting it by halfway through my movement phase, thank you very much. 

[Scribe]

  On 5/2/2023 at 3:34 PM, Mogger351 said:

Roboute has an aura in an ability where he can pick 1 of 3 effects, so it's an optional aura with a cost. It's (I think) the only aura seen so far?
I've just shown that faction + detachment are fewer rules, importantly far fewer variables

There is a dramatic reduction in rerolls contrary to the frequent trolling posts

Units don't seem to have that many more than they used to? They're just all on the unit now instead of being spread about and handed out via strats/characters.

 

I really don't understand the complaint, there is demonstrably fewer layers of stuff and when presented with that information, I don't consider "oh but there are still some rerolls" as a valid point to complain about. It sounds like you need to go back and try 3rd ed as an honest suggestion.

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To be as clear as possible.

 

My issue is that the layers still exist. There is less depth of the layers (again, as you noted quite well), but they do still exist, and I wanted less of them.  That is all.

[sandrorect]

  On 5/2/2023 at 3:28 PM, Marshal Reinhard said:

Also, vehicle toughness has gone up across the board.

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That is the reason why anti-tank weapons need to be stronger. GW have make tanks more tought versus low stregth weapons, no invincibles.

[Mogger351]

  On 5/2/2023 at 3:39 PM, Scribe said:

 

To be as clear as possible.

 

My issue is that the layers still exist. There is less depth of the layers (again, as you noted quite well), but they do still exist, and I wanted less of them.  That is all.

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Which layers did you consider worth keeping? You seem to wish for a game with no auras, rerolls, stratagems, layers of rules beyond faction and a unit profile to have no more than 1 special rule attached to it? Genuine question because I can't work out what it is that's being asked for.

[Petitioner's City]

  On 5/2/2023 at 3:44 PM, Mogger351 said:

Which layers did you consider worth keeping? You seem to wish for a game with no auras, rerolls, stratagems, layers of rules beyond faction and a unit profile to have no more than 1 special rule attached to it? Genuine question because I can't work out what it is that's being asked for.

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That sounds like 3rd/4th/5th, depending on what level of depth or crunch? 

 

Edit - but especially early 3rd :)

Edited May 2, 2023 by Petitioner's City

[Scribe]

  On 5/2/2023 at 3:44 PM, Mogger351 said:

Which layers did you consider worth keeping? You seem to wish for a game with no auras, rerolls, stratagems, layers of rules beyond faction and a unit profile to have no more than 1 special rule attached to it? Genuine question because I can't work out what it is that's being asked for.

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Delete

No Auras, just join characters to units.

No Strats. At all, delete the whole system.

No Detachment/Formations -> These belong in Apocalypse.

 

Keep

Unit Profile with leverage of USRs.

Warlord/Relics

Faction/Subfaction (Word Bearers should be unique from Night Lords)

Force Org Chart.

 

Something like that.

[Slips]

Has anyone mentioned that Multimeltas are 18" range now, seemingly, from the LR Sheet?

[Mogger351]

  On 5/2/2023 at 3:48 PM, Scribe said:

 

Delete

No Auras, just join characters to units.

No Strats. At all, delete the whole system.

No Detachment/Formations -> These belong in Apocalypse.

 

Keep

Unit Profile with leverage of USRs.

Warlord/Relics

Faction/Subfaction (Word Bearers should be unique from Night Lords)

Force Org Chart.

 

Something like that.

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Yes, may I refer you to 3rd-5th edition, leaning more on the early 3rd as noted above.

[Scribe]

  On 5/2/2023 at 3:51 PM, Mogger351 said:

Yes, may I refer you to 3rd-5th edition, leaning more on the early 3rd as noted above.

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It may shock you to learn, I believe 5th is the most playable version of 40K. ;)

 

Regardless, hopefully we understand each other I dont want to derail the thread further.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Since when did the standard variant of Land's Raider get a Multi Melta btw?

[Petitioner's City]

  On 5/2/2023 at 3:58 PM, Sword Brother Adelard said:

Since when did the standard variant of Land's Raider get a Multi Melta btw?

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Since the black templar sprue added it?

[Ammonius]

  On 5/2/2023 at 3:50 PM, Slips said:

Has anyone mentioned that Multimeltas are 18" range now, seemingly, from the LR Sheet?

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Hm. It seems to be a 2 shot version of the Melta Rifle from the Weapons in 10th article, rather than a bigger version.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Yeah, but that's just an option for Templars thus far. For generic chapters, it's not an option. Nor is it an option in the box?

[Cryptshadow]

  On 5/2/2023 at 1:13 PM, Doobles88 said:

My guess is that it'll be in the rules that, unless otherwise stated, each model can attack with one weapon. Not all. 

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Basically this, apperantly theres a special extra attacks keyword needed to attack with both weapons so its one or the other

[RedFox]

The regular Land Raider also gained 2 extra transport spots...making the other variants less interesting 

[BluejayJunior]

  On 5/2/2023 at 4:01 PM, Sword Brother Adelard said:

Yeah, but that's just an option for Templars thus far. For generic chapters, it's not an option. Nor is it an option in the box?

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Not sure when it became an option, but it's in the 9th Space Marine codex for everyone. 

Are you confusing it with the MM option for Repulsor? I'm pretty sure that is limited to just Black Templars. 

[sandrorect]

  On 5/2/2023 at 3:58 PM, Sword Brother Adelard said:

Since when did the standard variant of Land's Raider get a Multi Melta btw?

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Since 5th codex, so more than 15 years ago

[Lemondish]

  On 5/2/2023 at 4:01 PM, Sword Brother Adelard said:

Yeah, but that's just an option for Templars thus far. For generic chapters, it's not an option. Nor is it an option in the box?

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Land Raider Crusader/Redeemer kit includes it.

[Cruor Vault]

  On 5/2/2023 at 2:22 PM, Ammonius said:

I don't think I know enough to be sure about the Doctrines. Maybe Devastator Doctrine might come in handy on turn 3, when you suddenly need to move units from where they have been to where they need to be but want to also do some shooting along the way? 

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Being able to speedily reposition  your forces on turn 1-2 without sacrificing much of your shooting is incredibly powerful!  I can see MANY space marine players popping Devastator doctrine turn 1, then Assault Doctrine on turn 2 followed by Tactical on turn 3 for a reposition/refocus.

 

Movement wins games.  It always has a hard to quantify, but significant impact on codex performance...  Especially notable in the issues GW has balancing Eldar in almost every edition.

[Indy Techwisp]

I'm wondering now if just Space Marines will have the larger amount of rerolls or if all types of marine will have better access to them.