Wh40k 10th Edition Faction Focus: Tyranids

[Evil Eye]

3 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

Both the 5th Ed nid and guard books were actually extremely good and internally balanced codexes. Idk about later books, but those certainly werent a downgrade in terms of strength.

The 5th edition Tyranid book was a complete disaster. Horrible balance, both internally and externally (the Hive Guard being auto-takes whilst Pyrovores were the worst units in the entire game), half the Codex didn't have models and thanks to a certain legal mess resulted in those units being removed from the army for several editions (as well as causing GW's infuriating "no model no rules" policy), lots of loadouts being made illegal (notably "gunfexes") and generally being a mediocre Codex in the era of Grey Knights, Blood Angels and Leafblower Guard. Maybe it was the result of 5th being the era that made "netlisting" a thing and made meta-chasing scumbaggery far more commonplace, but the 5E Tyranid book only escapes the rank of "worst Tyranid Codex" by virtue of the 6th edition one being even WORSE.

[phandaal]

1 hour ago, Scribe said:

 

I did not initiate the discussion, but yes I think an overload of re-rolls just bogs things down. ;)

 

Nothing wrong with pointing this out. GW says they are toning down rerolls, then shows a whole bunch of rerolls. There is some irony there, worth a sensible chuckle or at least expelling air through the nose a bit more forcefully than usual.

 

I am not taking GW's word for anything, but I am hoping that whatever we end up with is in fact a streamlined game experience. Hard to tell for sure until we can get the actual rules and play some games with them.

[Zoatibix]

@KrakenBornno, it was a genuine question. I’ve seen a few folks of that opinion. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

1 hour ago, Evil Eye said:

The 5th edition Tyranid book was a complete disaster. Horrible balance, both internally and externally (the Hive Guard being auto-takes whilst Pyrovores were the worst units in the entire game), half the Codex didn't have models and thanks to a certain legal mess resulted in those units being removed from the army for several editions (as well as causing GW's infuriating "no model no rules" policy), lots of loadouts being made illegal (notably "gunfexes") and generally being a mediocre Codex in the era of Grey Knights, Blood Angels and Leafblower Guard. Maybe it was the result of 5th being the era that made "netlisting" a thing and made meta-chasing scumbaggery far more commonplace, but the 5E Tyranid book only escapes the rank of "worst Tyranid Codex" by virtue of the 6th edition one being even WORSE.

 

I saw a lot of different unit comps out of nid lists in 5th; poison hormagaunts, trygons, warriors, tervigons, venomthropes, give guard, flyrants, ymgarl stealers, ravenors, normal stealers, the doom, drop pods, termagants, gargoyles, stealers, carnifexes, etc... And yea, there were some trash units like the pyrovores, but there were a huge swathe of units at tournaments, and my nid playing friends won a number of them

 

 

A lot of units didn't have dedicated model in 5th, so idk why that was an egregious mark against the codex. Marines had a pick of junk loadoat metal models for both sternguard and vanguard, but no dedicated box with their options. Imperial guard didn't have anything for conscripts, veterans, the Medusa, hydra, or bombard. Ba didn't have the storm raven. The point is, it wasn't special or unique. People went to the Zellers across the street from the GW and bought a bunch of dino or alien egg toys and slapped some nid bits on them to make the drop pods; they made tervigons from carnifexes and ymgarl stealers from normal stealers. 

 

As I said earlier, a good nid list could definitely compete. A number of things were vulnerable to the manticore, sure, but that doesn't disqualify the book; orks were especially vulnerable to the manticore and were still considered highly competitive. Grey knights might have been the ultimate spoiler army, but they were super elite marines, and extremely vulnerable to fearless horde spam and things like the doom juicing them. Idk why BA make the complain list, as they literally were melee marines without any shooting pressure; they had to crack the venomthrope and chaf fearless castle and dodge the monsters and hive guard while they were at it. 

 

 

[Emperor Ming]

The amount of rerolls is concerning

 

Esp when thats only the first two factions

 

If its rerolls rerolls everywhere...

 

Then

 

Gw: lets talk about how we are reigning in rerolls

 

Also Gw: right so lets talk about all these new reroll abilities

[sitnam]

1 hour ago, KrakenBorn said:

GW just need to reign damage/AP back like they said.

That's true, but in both this preview and the last you've complained about heavy ordnance that should be powerful. In the case of this gun, it's actually been tuned back too.

[Irate Khornate]

Kinda whelmed by the swarmlord.

[KnightofSigismund]

21 minutes ago, Irate Khornate said:

Kinda whelmed by the swarmlord.

Is that “over” or “under”?

[burningsky25]

Something I haven't seen mentioned yet; sometimes the 'less re-rolls' can actually be at odds with 'less-lethality', given that one of the very simple ways to reduce lethality is to cut back on raw number of shots, and generally they do that on double barrelled (or twinned) weapons; this instead becomes twin-linked.  This is a good move to (potentially) make things like a Stormraven Gunship a viable transport again instead of paying for an armies worth of flying guns, but of course inevitably adds re-rolls.  So, there's a balancing act there in some respects I'd say.  

The more significant point is likely simply that if these are unit abilities and not overlapping effects the whole system is nonetheless significantly simpler and faster, even if there are still re-rolls.  This is still a dice game after all with only 6 outcomes on a d6; re-rolls is a huge way to expand the granularity, none of us want to lose that.

[sarabando]

I hope the screamer killer isn't fully replacing the carnafix kit as I've always liked it

[Special Officer Doofy]

I like the strat to bring the little bugs back. Adds to the endless swarm vibes.

[spessmarine]

Oh yeah, for anyone who missed it.

Seems like the index cards slide will be the order of faction previews. Well, so far 3 match up. Set an alarm clock SW/WE rather than expect anything in May.

 

[XeonDragon]

I'd have preferred the Tyranofex to have something like 4D3 or 3D3+3 or 2D3+6 damage... anything but 2d6. 

[joschlumpf]

4 hours ago, sarabando said:

I hope the screamer killer isn't fully replacing the carnafix kit as I've always liked it

They said in the stream that the Carnifex is still it´s own thing and won´t get replaced by the Screamer Killer

[Emperor Ming]

Also the screamer killer is way way bigger, thats a 80 or 100mm base for the screamer killer the carnyfix is on a 60

[Guest Triszin]

10 hours ago, spessmarine said:

Oh yeah, for anyone who missed it.

Seems like the index cards slide will be the order of faction previews. Well, so far 3 match up. Set an alarm clock SW/WE rather than expect anything in May.

 

3 of my factions, Tau, votann, wolves.

 

I guess I'm patient.

[Marshal Mittens]

11 hours ago, Irate Khornate said:

Kinda whelmed by the swarmlord.

Seems very good for command point shenanigans, eh for combat for a character of his lore.

[Khornestar]

What’s lackluster about his fightiness? 8 wS2+ attacks, S9 AP-2 D3 reroll wounds looks good to me. 

Edited May 4, 2023 by Khornestar

[Marshal Reinhard]

53 minutes ago, Khornestar said:

What’s lackluster about his fightiness? 8 wS2+ attacks, S9 AP-2 D3 reroll wounds looks good to me. 

I guess seeing roboute dishing out some 21 attacks prior made the swarmy feel a bit mundane

[ZeroWolf]

To be fair, I don't think even the Hive Mind can turn out a specimen on par or greater than a primarch...yet.

[Malakithe]

1 hour ago, Triszin said:

3 of my factions, Tau, votann, wolves.

 

I guess I'm patient.

Looks like this isnt the case for the faction focus as Necrons are next

[Irate Khornate]

12 hours ago, KnightofSigismund said:

Is that “over” or “under”?

Neither. Just meh.

[Captain Idaho]

3 hours ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

I guess seeing roboute dishing out some 21 attacks prior made the swarmy feel a bit mundane

 

As an Ultramarines player, even I would like Guilliman to only be able to use 1 melee weapon. Hopefully that'll be the rule in the core rules, as it just seems... overpowered.

[ZeroWolf]

38 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

 

As an Ultramarines player, even I would like Guilliman to only be able to use 1 melee weapon. Hopefully that'll be the rule in the core rules, as it just seems... overpowered.

It could go either way. In AoS, they can use all melee weapons they have at once but even then, after a quick check, most of the weapon profiles don't have that many attacks...

Not that Abaddon is any different in that regard.

[Bash]

I definitely think they'll put in a rule that says you can only pick whichever melee weapon you want to use and stick with it. I know they're obviously having 2 weapons as fluffy little ways for them to have 'sweep attack' profiles much as Helbrecht, Farsight etc have now. I just think it's a little much for them to have both their version of the weaker sweep attack and the big full profile at the same time.