Wh40k 10th Edition 10th ed. Chaos Demons faction focus

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Today's faction focus is Chaos Demons: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/05/09/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-chaos-daemons-2/

 

Things to like from it:

• Greater demons have a 4+ invulnerable
• Keeper of Secrets' shield gives 5+++ feel no pain, which hopefully means there is more feel no pain elsewhere in the faction (here's hoping for all nurgle demons)
• The shadows of the warp is really interesting and potentially quite powerful.  On the down side, it seems to be quite "win more" in that it is more likely to keep you ahead when you are already ahead and doesn't actually help you get ahead (which in turns can mean it won't help you win more games, but instead make you "win bigger" those games you would have won without it).
• I like the Corrupted Realspace stratagem they show as it will actually help you win games by allowing you to keep control of objectives you would otherwise lose (though it won't help you keep from being shot off objectives in the round you get to them).  How useful it turns out to be will depend on a) how CP starved armies are; b) how useful our other stratagems are; and c) how cheap out chaff is - this stratagem gets a lot better if we cheap units we can "throw away" to grab out of the way objectives.

 

It shows a lot of promise - if the rest of the faction's rules carry through (in particular unit point costs) I may well actually play my demons, instead of just painting them.

 

One concern I have is the emphasis there seems to be on battle shock - this kind of previews have a tendency to overhype whatever the new mechanic is, and I feel this one does that with its reference to Shadow of the Warp's interaction with battleshock - obviously, Shadow of the Warp gets a lot better the more you can get units to fail their battle shock roll, but I'm left worried that is something that is rarely going to happen.  On the other hand, from the previews we saw, leadership values are generally lower than they were in the past for non-marine units and we have yet to see any rules allowing units to circumvent battleshock or leadership tests, so I am cautiously optimistic.

Edited May 9, 2023 by Dr_Ruminahui

[Special Officer Doofy]

I agree with your assessments. I like the 4+ invuln saves (fingers crossed they axe all the silly weapons that bypass them). But I'm actually upset and worried about Chaos Daemons.

 

Like you said, their faction trait is akin to "win more" not so much getting you into that position in the first place. A keeper of secrets is twice the size of a carnifex yet caps out at S8. As a slaanesh player are you not worried about anti tank? At S8 in 8th and 9th it was fine, wounding the biggest stuff on 4's. But now that alot of vehicles are anywhere from T9-T12+, S8 kind of sucks. Daemons have almost no ranged, and no anti tank except the not so great model (my opinion of course) soul grinder. Khorne's big guys will be strong enough, but I worry as a nurgle only player that I'm not going to have any way of dealing with my opponents T12 vehicles that are just shooting my big Daemons off the board without anything to hit back.

 

Just Be'lakors sheet alone worries me. Not sure what stealth is yet, but he had -1 to be hit, -1 to be wounded, and -1D from ranged, and lost it all. Hopefully that comes with a healthy points drop.

 

Too early to make any worthwhile assessment, but I'm not exactly stoked for my chaos daemons if I'm being honest.

[Tokugawa]

KoS has 3 different melee weapons with strength of 6, 6, and 8.

 

Which means it wound a humble rhino on 5+. 

 

 

Isn't something wrong?

[MithrilForge]

I guess I’m going to sit on 9th Ed for a while … not even looking at 10th Ed till Christmas time, I’ve been fooled before with “this new edition is the best rendition of 40K ever!” …. People were running around with joyous rapture at the start of 9th… but that turned into anger and sadness, I’m going to sit back and watch for a good while, I should probably go and finish some of my armies while I’m waiting . 
 

M

[happyslugger]

I thought some of the preview looked interesting and fun.  I was worried about the big guys being targetable still on T 1 and if the game changes to everyone taking tanks or long range firepower, how long will blood thirsters, belakor, guo last. 

 

It looks as though the models previewed can at least hide behind ruins, assuming they will have to be a certain height and truly block the models visibility, which will be hard to do as we all know. 

 

I was however pleased to see you can add 25% of army points as allies to chaos marine armies.  Will make my DG / TS fun. I plan to get a small WE force to run with my khorne guys, but I haven't go round to that yet.

 

Guess we need to see what points are like also...

Edited May 13, 2023 by happyslugger

[Dr_Ruminahui]

On 5/9/2023 at 5:10 PM, Tokugawa said:

KoS has 3 different melee weapons with strength of 6, 6, and 8.

Which means it wound a humble rhino on 5+. 

Isn't something wrong?

 

I've seen it argued in the news forum that perhaps the devastating wounds on the claws was meant to help it fill this role, but at only 4 attacks its only going to (statistically) push through a couple a wounds each turn of melee.  So I agree that is troubling, as essentially the only forms of anti-tank slannesh has/had are the keeper of secrets, psychic powers and that one chariot on the charge - at least what we've seen of the first 2, they no longer do that.  Hopefully the greater demons will become greater threats to vehicles when we get our codex, or we are given some tools.

 

Mumeshi, I think the headiness of a new edition is in the potential for a better play experience - we are shown glimpses of the potential, but less so of its defects.  So, I'm not saying there isn't reason for some pessimism, given all the times a change of editions hasn't lived up to the hope and potential it entered with.  That said, I think early edition offers an opportunity to play the edition at its most simple, elegant and balanced (so, before the codexes roll in and potentially muck that up, like they did in 9th), so I personally look forward to getting some games in.  Additionally, unlike the "partial resets" like 4-7 and 9th, we ditch the codexes, and, unlike with 3rd and 8th (I can't speak to 2nd) the basic army rules seem characterful and interesting even before their codexes.

 

Not that everyone should share my cautious optimism, but there is at least the potential for this to be a good edition, particularly at launch.  If nothing else, I find getting some games can real help get me some enthusiasm for painting.

 

 

[MithrilForge]

@Dr_Ruminahui - valid points you have (why did I just say that like yoda ) , I’m sitting in the middle really as my mates and I bought all the required 9th Ed codexes in anticipation of not continuing with tenth, so I’ve only been half heartedly looking at all the sneak peeks , not even looking to learn what the new things/rules  are so I’m not confused with the present rule set , if within a year when some codexes drop and there’s no bloat and everyone says yea this is the one !!, I may entertain it. 
 

M. 
 

p.s. you’re right though , playing few games gets you into that painting mood !! 

[Plaguecaster]

I want to see what the soul grinder is statewide as hopefully they have some high strength weapons that will help with taking out vehicles easy 

 

They new rules for mixing daemons is pretty good and will enjoy taking some nurgle daemons alongside my death guard since more easy now 

Corbax plus some plaguebearers and hopefully a soul grinder depending on the strength of its weapons will be a lovely and fluffy addition for my death guard 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Plaguecaster

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Im hoping GW brings back horde armies in 10th.  The Guard article suggests this is in fact the case with guardsmen units going up to 20 max.  Hopefully lesser daemons will go back to being 20 or even 30 strong.  I also hope that the GUO is the most durable single model in the game... or close to it.  Toughness 20+ with 4++ and a shrug.  I really want to paint one and put it on the table.

[Tokugawa]

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