Wh40k 10th Edition Faction Focus: Aeldari

[Zoatibix]

But having made them fragile, they should have made sure they were fast. 
 

Hiwever, GW do seem to have fixated on certain speeds for certain types of unit - hence the very light, open-topped Drukhari Venom has had it’s speed knocked down to match that of the Storm Speeder…because they are both skimmers.

 

That seems to be the logic, anyway.

[danodan123]

3 minutes ago, Zoatibix said:

But having made them fragile, they should have made sure they were fast. 
 

Hiwever, GW do seem to have fixated on certain speeds for certain types of unit - hence the very light, open-topped Drukhari Venom has had it’s speed knocked down to match that of the Storm Speeder…because they are both skimmers.

 

That seems to be the logic, anyway.

 

With board sizes being as they are, what speed would you like to see?

 

An extra inch or two is always handy?! 

[Kallas]

9 minutes ago, danodan123 said:

An extra inch or two is always handy?! 

Pretty sure that's what made Slaanesh 

Spoiler

 

[Zoatibix]

Given Infantry are often moving at 6” and vehicles at 12” (looking at Rhino, anyway), 18” seems reasonable for Aeldari as a trade-off.

 

I speak as. Drukhari player, whose vehicles so far have been much more fragile, so arguably should be faster than our Craftworld cousins.

[Kallas]

11 minutes ago, Zoatibix said:

I speak as. Drukhari player, whose vehicles so far have been much more fragile, so arguably should be faster than our Craftworld cousins.

Yeah, a T6 6W Venom being as fast as a T9(?!?) 11W Storm Speeder feels very odd.

[Ming the Merciless]

21 minutes ago, Zoatibix said:

Given Infantry are often moving at 6” and vehicles at 12” (looking at Rhino, anyway), 18” seems reasonable for Aeldari as a trade-off.

 

I speak as. Drukhari player, whose vehicles so far have been much more fragile, so arguably should be faster than our Craftworld cousins.

 

/pines for 8th edition Kabal of the Flayed Skull Venoms moving 19" 

[Xenith]

1 hour ago, Zoatibix said:

Given Infantry are often moving at 6” and vehicles at 12” (looking at Rhino, anyway), 18” seems reasonable for Aeldari as a trade-off.

 

Agree there, especially with no real defences. The 16" they had in 9th ed just wasn't enough with the small board sizes. In previous editions you could go backwards to make some space, but in 9th you usually have to go over the top of the thing closing you down so you lose 4-6" of displacement away from the thing about to charge your tanks.

 

14" is not enough - in 7th they cruised at 18" I think and flat-outed at 24" movement (guaranteed). So between 7th and 10th, Eldar tanks have lost nearly 25% of their speed, and all their defences (holofield or similar effect).

[Dr. Clock]

49 minutes ago, Xenith said:

14" is not enough - in 7th they cruised at 18" I think and flat-outed at 24" movement (guaranteed). So between 7th and 10th, Eldar tanks have lost nearly 25% of their speed, and all their defences (holofield or similar effect).

In fairness, Aeldari vehicles all seem to retain some level of 'unique/superior' defence when compared to Imperial equivalents:

 

Wave Serpents retain their 5++, which is really quite good, especially in a Fate Dice world.

 

Venoms with Stealth and a 6++ are still paper planes, sure, but Deep Strike and Athletic Aerialists are both nifty.

 

It does seem like we'll still lose most of the boats in most games, but what else is new?

 

At a certain point, high movement makes positioning and terrain meaningless. Seems like they could have gone to 16", though at 14" I think it forces one to consider Advancing more often when trying to stay (mostly) out of sight... and that kind of thing is healthy for the game. So my feeling overall is that it's good enough if the points come correct.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[Zoatibix]

I must respectfully disagree, good sir!

 

Aeldari are meant to be faster than low tech Mon-Keigh. Having that faster movement isn’t going to break the game. I mean you have Mon-Keigh hopping back into transports or piling out of assault ramps. It seems somewhat churlish to deny Aeldari the raw speed that is their rightful inheritance!

 

Compare Leman Russ vs Fire Prism. The former has a better save and higher Toughness. Fire Prisms can nudge one of them up front but then has to use Strats to try and pull it out of LOS. 
 

It gets Fly, but is bizarrely only 4” faster than a lumbering low- tech ground vehicle from a horde army. It doesn’t get an INV or damage reduction.

 

Stuff from an army that’s supposed to be faster should just be faster. If the new marine dread gets to be tougher than a Carnifex because ‘marines are tough’ the same should be true of races that are meant to be faster.

 

In my gently tipsy opinion. 

 

 

 

 

[sairence]

The reason you're confused about that supposeldly small speed difference between a Prism and a Russ is because you're oh so sophistcated Eldar mind couldn't begin to conceive the kind of volatile crap our tankers pour into those engines. Really makes them go, believe you me!

 

Also, it regularly short-circuits the Techpriests when they catch us. They go livid.

Edited June 5, 2023 by sairence

[Khornestar]

Perhaps the xenos hubris has led to a reputation that doesn’t match reality? ;)

[prava]

On 6/5/2023 at 3:19 PM, Zoatibix said:

Given Infantry are often moving at 6” and vehicles at 12” (looking at Rhino, anyway), 18” seems reasonable for Aeldari as a trade-off.

 

I speak as. Drukhari player, whose vehicles so far have been much more fragile, so arguably should be faster than our Craftworld cousins.

 

On 6/5/2023 at 9:39 PM, Zoatibix said:

I must respectfully disagree, good sir!

 

Aeldari are meant to be faster than low tech Mon-Keigh. Having that faster movement isn’t going to break the game. I mean you have Mon-Keigh hopping back into transports or piling out of assault ramps. It seems somewhat churlish to deny Aeldari the raw speed that is their rightful inheritance!

 

Compare Leman Russ vs Fire Prism. The former has a better save and higher Toughness. Fire Prisms can nudge one of them up front but then has to use Strats to try and pull it out of LOS. 
 

It gets Fly, but is bizarrely only 4” faster than a lumbering low- tech ground vehicle from a horde army. It doesn’t get an INV or damage reduction.

 

Stuff from an army that’s supposed to be faster should just be faster. If the new marine dread gets to be tougher than a Carnifex because ‘marines are tough’ the same should be true of races that are meant to be faster.

 

In my gently tipsy opinion. 

 

 

 

 

 

I think your perspective is extremely skewed if 4" more movement is ONLY 4". Come on now, we gotta be realistic here. Movement is the most important stat in the game. And your boats have ways of destroying the only thing that can see them (fate + detachment rules) AND you can even force those saves with fate. 

 

Also, all your vehicles fly. Which is not such a good stat as it was before, mind you, but it still is very good indeed.

 

AELDARI need to be fragile in this edition, in order to compensate them being ultra-killy.

[Zoatibix]

It would depend on the context, but in the case of 'slow lumbering tank versus fast moving high-tech grav-tank', four inches does seem too small a gap.

 

It's not nothing...but if it were, I wouldn't be talking about it.

 

Now, I had been drinking when I posted  - mea culpa - but I'm really looking at this as a Drukhari player.  I was thinking of 18" would be the top limit for them as they are supposed to be even faster and more fragile than Aeldari.  Missed out saying that Aeldari should be slower than Drukhari because they are more heavily armed and armoured.  That’s my bad.

 

But in a more sober light, 16" is reasonable for Drukhari stuff.  It's almost certainly going to be more fragile than the nearest Aeldari equivalents.  Quite likely to have less firepower, too.

 

(I remain on the fence about the in-game difference between PFP and Aeldari's RR hits/wounds.)

 

Look at it this way, the Venom got it's speed knocked down to 14".  Meanwhile we have Rhinos sitting at 12" while the ‘Primaris’ APCs are 10”.  Apparently, GW wanted the Rhino to be a lighter, faster alternative to the old 'Primaris' APCs.  If they just wanted a cheaper transport they would have equalized all the marine transport M scores down to 10".

 

So GW have shown they are happy to have lighter, faster things (they also do it for the various Infantry models we've seen). But Venom’s got ‘normalised’?

 

[sairence]

It's more of a balance thing I suspect, especially with transports. Remember, stuff can now get out AFTER the transport moved. So the threat range of your transport doesn't stop at its own movement. At certain ludicruous speeds you'd basically be covering the entirety if no mans land with a big chunk of your army, which just invalidates a big part of the game.

[DemonGSides]

Right; if your transports can basically guarantee that you make it into the enemy's deployment zone in the 1st round every game, that's pretty busted and has very little counterplay besides "Hopefully DEldar doesn't go first."

[Sea Creature]

I heard the Bug Eater GT is currently planning to ban space elves now.

[TrawlingCleaner]

32 minutes ago, Sea Creature said:

I heard the Bug Eater GT is currently planning to ban space elves now.

 

For Context:

Spoiler

 

With Votann's release codex, we knew the points, all datasheets, profiles, Special rules, WLTs, Relics, etc as someone had leaked the entire codex. We knew what the meta was when it was being released too. For 10th we know a good deal more about Eldar Datasheets than most other armies, even then we know very little.

They're TOs and are allowed to do whatever they like, it's their tournament. I suppose participants and potential participants can not attend if they feel like it too. As knee-jerks go, this is definitely one of the more silly ones I've seen

Edited June 8, 2023 by TrawlingCleaner

[Captain Idaho]

I don't think it is. Long term players can see how the rules pan out and know the game intimately. We hear all the time that "we don't know all the rules" then we're often right anyway.

[TrawlingCleaner]

22 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

I don't think it is. Long term players can see how the rules pan out and know the game intimately. We hear all the time that "we don't know all the rules" then we're often right anyway.

 

And in my, also, totally anecdotal evidence, Long term players often make some of the worst calls. There's a saying about old dogs

We still know so little about about 95% of factions and armies, it's a hard call to make already

 

In either case, we'll see how things are looking to shake out in the next few weeks!

[Xenith]

Just as often as "the sky is falling" players are wrong 

 

Spoiler

Votann was one of those rare moments when the entire player base was unified in saying "this is OP BS". Did Bugeater ban Votann also? That might give an insight into accuracy. 

 

That said, Eldar have usually been strong, however in this instance the community seems split with a smaller proportion of people saying they're broken than the community coming together as one for Votann.

 

Naturally, if tourneys start banning Eldar, whether or not they are actually imba, GW will issue a statement saying they will look at them, which no doubt the decriers will see as a win and proof they were right all along. 

 

The same would happen to any army. I'd personally like to see tourneys start banning lower performing armies in order to keep things competitive. *That* would make GW wake up. 

 

Edited June 8, 2023 by Xenith

[Captain Idaho]

It's definitely not a smaller proportion. And people aren't saying "the sky is falling." That's just a way of dismissing people who might have well reasoned points but whom disagree with you.

 

Eldar break the game in many ways with fate dice, backed up by free unit rerolls. Critical hits, wounds and free shooting from Overwatch are all disproportionately affected by fate dice.

 

That isn't an irrational, "sky is falling" take. That's a position bourne out from the facts of Eldar Fate dice and knowing how it'll affect the game.

[Orange Knight]

I finally sat down to review the Eldar rules and units, and so far they seem to be the strongest faction in 10th by some margin. Their output and dice manipulation are so good, and I'm wondering if their points will reflect just how strong they seem to be.

 

I think a lot of people are giving them a pass because the edition is new, and these rules are ultimately a temporary stopgap before the codex drop.

 

 

[Sea Creature]

I think the fate dice with d cannons will be a staple unless GW addresses it.

[Redcomet]

20 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

I finally sat down to review the Eldar rules and units, and so far they seem to be the strongest faction in 10th by some margin. Their output and dice manipulation are so good, and I'm wondering if their points will reflect just how strong they seem to be.

 

I think a lot of people are giving them a pass because the edition is new, and these rules are ultimately a temporary stopgap before the codex drop.

 

 

Depending on the schedule, that could be up to 3 years in future. They might be the last codex out of the gate for all we know

[sairence]

39 minutes ago, Redcomet said:

Depending on the schedule, that could be up to 3 years in future. They might be the last codex out of the gate for all we know

Max 6 months, until balance dataslate.