Wh40k 10th Edition Faction Focus: Aeldari

[Karhedron]

We can see from the Fate Dice mechanics as the unit/weapon profiles previewed so far that Eldar will be dishing out out a lot of damage.

 

But we have also seen that most of their units remain fragile in an edition that has been marked by increased resilience, particularly of vehicles.

 

This means Eldar are definitely going to be a glass cannon army which is how they should be. What we do not know yet is whether Eldar are too glassy or too cannony for their points. Eldar are looking powerful but also brittle. The costs will everything in determining whether they are fair or broken.

[TrawlingCleaner]

How to Sisters stack up on people's power scaling? If Fate dice are a big bugbear, obviously Miracle dice would be too, no?

Sisters have ways of producing a good deal more Miracle dice (4 ways of creating them a turn through 1 BSS alone) as well as at least one way of creating fixed rolls of 6.

I've mentioned before how there's more mileage in an army wide reroll vs 1 target (or 2 with GMan) than there is with 1 hit and wound reroll per unit.

 

I'm not contesting that they're strong, a mix of Miracle Dice and rerolls is very good. The D-Cannon on Support Weapons didn't need the Devastating Wounds.

I'm contesting that they're so horribly broken that they needed banning from a tournament before the edition has dropped, we've not even seen literally 95% of each armies indexes, points etc. Again the difference between this and Votann is that:

A) We'd seen literally all of the codex including points, strats etc

B) We knew the meta they were heading into

 

We know neither of these and it's a brand new edition. It's a decision that's kneejerking and half cocked at best, petty at worst

[Redcomet]

Saw a twitter post today, a tournament is banning Eldar for their first 10th ed tournament 

[Captain Idaho]

I was thinking on Sisters and I thought about the comparison... they don't get the Detachment rerolls and their weapons aren't on the same oppressive scale as Eldar. They are usually strong though.

 

I wouldn't have banned the Eldar myself. Let the tournament pan out so you've got the data to point to. But I do appreciate tournament organisers might be thinking about the bottom line of the rest of the attendees and their investment into the tournament. 

Edited June 8, 2023 by Captain Idaho

[Emperor Ming]

1 hour ago, Redcomet said:

Saw a twitter post today, a tournament is banning Eldar for their first 10th ed tournament 

Bit crazy, until we know points

[TrawlingCleaner]

28 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

I was thinking on Sisters and I thought about the comparison... they don't get the Detachment rerolls and their weapons aren't on the same oppressive scale as Eldar. They are usually strong though.

 

We've seen 2 full datasheets and 2 weapons profiles for Sisters though, what about the other 30 datasheets and weapons profiles? Or Enhancements and Strats?

 

To avoid the discussion continuing down a cyclical path, I'll make this point then move on: The context of the rest of the army, the points, the missions etc all matter. Is any part of the army broken? Is it all broken? Underpowered? Overpointed? Underpointed? We could've seen the tip of the iceberg for Aeldari or any other faction or we could've seen the bottom of the iceberg. D-Cannons could be 200 points a base or they could be 100. We've still to see 95% of the game or even a full Index.

X and Y have the potential to be broken but they also have the potential to be overcosted and largely useless.

 

Would more people attend a tournament, knowing that TOs are jumping the gun that hard, or less? What else will they jump at?

[Captain Idaho]

Regarding tournaments; I go for fun and to try my specific themed list in the crucible of combat against all sorts of opponents. I'm there for a PB and to win a couple games out of 5 and feel good about it.

 

So I'm probably not able to give an opinion on it directly as down there on lower tables I'll be unlikely to come up against Eldar 

 

(Note I'm quite a capable player, but my intent is often different to many others there)

 

But I imagine there will always be attendees. There's always someone to take someone else's place.

 

Like I said, I'd have liked to see Eldar results in the next few months as people get accustomed to their armies etc.

Edited June 8, 2023 by Captain Idaho

[phandaal]

Spotted on the Leagues of Votann discord:

 

Spoiler

 

[Kallas]

TL;DR: Eldar stronk, points will matter a lot.

 

1 hour ago, TrawlingCleaner said:

How to Sisters stack up on people's power scaling? If Fate dice are a big bugbear, obviously Miracle dice would be too, no?

Sisters have ways of producing a good deal more Miracle dice (4 ways of creating them a turn through 1 BSS alone) as well as at least one way of creating fixed rolls of 6.

I've mentioned before how there's more mileage in an army wide reroll vs 1 target (or 2 with GMan) than there is with 1 hit and wound reroll per unit.

Miracle Dice have an inherent limiting factor: you can only spend one Miracle Dice per unit per phase. This means that if they had D-Cannons, for example, they could not guarantee multiple 6s for that unit's shooting. Fate Dice are much more frontloaded (ie, 12 at start of game, vs 1 per battle round plus other generation) and can be dumped into an alpha strike of key targets to ensure maximum damage, where Miracle Dice must be gained and spent much more slowly.

 

Of course, Fate Dice aren't all 6s in 10e, and even Farseers are only changing one per turn (plus two of the Enhancements we've seen: one to reroll a FD, and one to gain FD through killing units with the Attached unit), but even so, 3s and 4s are guarantees to wound for things like Bright Lances against many targets (eg, T9 Rhinos, even T11 Russes, are wounded on 3s by Bright Lances). Add in the Battle Host rerolls, as Idaho mentioned, and you've got a heap of reliability in an edition where lethality has been mostly reduced.

 

Some of the big bugbears of 8e/9e Eldar like Dire Avengers just shredding anything with mass shuriken fire are gone; but they have been replaced with very reliable, high damage shots; and the Dire Avengers and co are not exactly bad, they're just not killing everything like they used to.

 

D-Cannons are obviously a big talking point (and I keep coming back to them myself), but they're not the only strong units. War Walkers are definitely strong, given the above reliability on their output and T7, a 4++, with -1 to wound means they're tougher than most tanks (vs Lascannons/Bright Lances, etc, they're harder to wound than a Russ, and as hard as a Land Raider; vs the absolute highest strength weapons in the game [ie, S24+] they're harder to wound than anything else, plus the 4++ to make them extremely resilient). The Avatar is strong, but it now has greater access to buffs (even though buffs have been reduced in availability) - an Avatar can now get Fortune for -1 to wound, so it's T12, 2+/4++ with -1 to wound on a 2+ from a Farseer; that is extremely resilient - its output isn't incredible, but the melee is very strong, and the shooting isn't exactly weak albeit low volume.

 

Scorpions and Avengers are absolutely strong into GEQ type units; and Scorpions can do decently into MEQs. Karandras buffing Scorpions, plus his own capability, makes them very dangerous into G/MEQs, and being a strong melee threat means they can be an aggressive buffer...for things like D-Cannons! Warp Spiders are great for mobility, which seems to be mostly reduced in 10e - chucking them 24" is massive, and they will also obliterate GEQs, so Eldar are not lacking for anti-horde options, while able to pack in great anti-tank options.

 

It will all come down to points. I did not watch them myself, but people were estimating the rough 9e value of the streamed 2000pt games, and estimated armies (including Eldar) were roughly 200+ points cheaper in 10e. If this bears out, then Eldar will absolutely be extremely strong; and if they are priced high, then they will still be strong but at least fragile - just pray they don't go first!

 

 

[sairence]

While my gut feeling if that Eldar are going to be a problem, I think it's too early for a ban, and that the precedent with Votann doesn't quite work. 

 

The Votann codex leaked early, into an established meta. People had several weeks to playtest them in and out to reach the definitive conslusion that they were busted. Only then did parts of the community decide to ban it.

 

Pretty much none if that applies here.

[ZeroWolf]

Seems to me that they want to force a response from GW, maybe get them to drop the points costs lists early (as means of defence about the Eldar units) unless they're working on the assumption of what things cost now.

[Indy Techwisp]

I sure hope they're refunding the players who bought tickets, booked hotels and arranged transport to the event when it was still a 9th edition tournament but now can't play because the TO banned Aeldari before we've even seen a single point cost.

Edited June 8, 2023 by Indy Techwisp
Spelling

[Cpt.Danjou]

 

meh

Edited June 8, 2023 by Cpt.Danjou
wrong thread.

[Xenith]

The internet moves fast 

Edited June 8, 2023 by Xenith

[Sea Creature]

Well we know who plays space elves… :D

[Noserenda]

Eldar being oppressive is just something that happens every so often, it has happened before and it will happen again. Fortunately id expect the period to be considerably shorter these days.

[Xenith]

10 hours ago, Sea Creature said:

Well we know who plays space elves… :D

 

Among plenty of other things 

[Bouargh]

Hi, just a quick question as I do not remember if it was dealt in any WarCom info or rumor: do we know anything about an eventual Ynnari faction in the Indexes?

 

Thanks.

[TrawlingCleaner]

7 minutes ago, Bouargh said:

Hi, just a quick question as I do not remember if it was dealt in any WarCom info or rumor: do we know anything about an eventual Ynnari faction in the Indexes?

 

Thanks.

 

We've not seen anything official from GW about Ynnari or Quins yet

 

My assumption is that Ynnari and Quins use the same detatchment as Aeldari with the same "subfaction" lock as everyone else. For example: if you include a character with Ynarri keyword like Yvraine, you cannot take a character with Ulthwé keyword like Eldrad.

Quins are probably going to be the same

 

I could definitely be wrong though, I often am

[Bouargh]

36 minutes ago, TrawlingCleaner said:

My assumption is that Ynnari and Quins use the same detatchment as Aeldari with the same "subfaction" lock as everyone else. For example: if you include a character with Ynarri keyword like Yvraine, you cannot take a character with Ulthwé keyword like Eldrad.

Quins are probably going to be the same

 

I was thinking more or less the same but being more "optimistic": getting only 3 Datasheet for Ynnaris (Visarg, Yvraine and the Yncarne) but all with both keywords Aeldari and Drukkhari.

Yet I guess the combined forces of dark and other eldars will not a ba a thing anymore, whatever Ynnari used to be in te past.

 

But my doubt is related to the status of Epic Hero: as Yvraine and the Yncarne are both quite credible for this status I guess it will empty a little bit the potencial of fielding a Ynnari army which main feature (to my mind) comes from its special characters... But I might be wrong in this analysis. Except if the Epic Hero is the Ynnari Triumvirat... But I do not think this can reasonnably happen, do it?

 

I am often wrong too. More than often in fact. So, better wait and see.

[TrawlingCleaner]

1 minute ago, Bouargh said:

 

I was thinking more or less the same but being more "optimistic": getting only 3 Datasheet for Ynnaris (Visarg, Yvraine and the Yncarne) but all with both keywords Aeldari and Drukkhari.

Yet I guess the combined forces of dark and other eldars will not a ba a thing anymore, whatever Ynnari used to be in te past.

 

But my doubt is related to the status of Epic Hero: as Yvraine and the Yncarne are both quite credible for this status I guess it will empty a little bit the potencial of fielding a Ynnari army which main feature (to my mind) comes from its special characters... But I might be wrong in this analysis. Except if the Epic Hero is the Ynnari Triumvirat... But I do not think this can reasonnably happen, do it?

 

I am often wrong too. More than often in fact. So, better wait and see.

 

Imperium and Chaos are able to ally small contingents of force like Imperial Agents, Knights etc, Chaos can ally Daemons, GSC have Brood Brothers. So there's definitely precident for allying a small section of something to another army, Quins and Ynnari are the most likely candidates for Eldar forces I think.

 

On Epic Heroes:

 

Epic Heroes is essentially the same as "Unique" characters of old, you wouldn't be able to take 2 Yvraines but you'd definitely be able to take Yvraine, Yncarne and the Visarch all in the same force. If you take an Epic Hero, one of them must be your Warlord but IIRC, you may choose which one is your Warlord if you take multiple Epic Heroes

[Indy Techwisp]

2 hours ago, Bouargh said:

Hi, just a quick question as I do not remember if it was dealt in any WarCom info or rumor: do we know anything about an eventual Ynnari faction in the Indexes?

 

Thanks.

 

We haven't seen anything, but we can make reasonable guesses.

 

For my guess, I point to the example of having Lucius the Eternal be your CSM warlord locking in Slanneshi daemons.

 

Yvraine may have an ability, probably on the back of the datasheet, which allows up to ¼ of your army to be Drukhari if she's the Warlord of your Aeldari Army.