Warhammer 40k Core Rules Leaked

[MARK0SIAN]

14 minutes ago, Brother nathan said:

well i dont see a fights last section...  and it alternates players in their steps so i think it seems better but remains to be seen when units get access to that rule on top of charging... 

yeah, you’ve kind of hit the nail on the head. As before, the basic rule is simple but if they hand out too many exceptions like they did in the last two editions it just becomes a mess.

[Silas7]

25 minutes ago, Verbal Underbelly said:

The melee rules seem to indicate base contact will be more important now. The melee example showed models in base contact and friendly models in base contact with those were able to attack.

 

 

I dislike the btb ruling people are going to slow the game down trying to make sure model placement is optimal and harkens back to trying to avoid getting templated.

[Khornestar]

[Special Officer Doofy]

5 minutes ago, Khornestar said:

 

I feel now that most characters don't have auras and instead join units the whole conga line thing matters less, but someone will always find a way to abuse the rules.

[Khornestar]

Nice change for marines of various stripes, who often have max size units of 6. What was previously a rule for 5 models to remain in coherency now applies for units of up to 6. Neat.

 

Add a leader and they’d need to use the next tier coherency rule.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Khornestar

[Captain Idaho]

The leak you shared has "credit your artists" all over it. Which is amusing to see people rebelling but whether it is a good idea and reveals who has done it might be a problem for the individual. 

 

GW should credit its artists, of course.

[Khornestar]

Something interesting that came up in a discord chat:

 

Piling in to enemy units that weren’t the target of a charge.

 

The charging unit can’t move within engagement range of a unit it didn’t declare as a target of the charge during or after the charge move.

 

If a unit is big enough, and there are other enemy units within 3” it could be possible to pile in to them.

 

The pile-in move is 3” toward the closest enemy model, ending within engagement range and in base contact if possible. But so far there’s nothing that says the charging unit can only allocate attacks to units that it declared as targets of the charge step.

 

Ultimately I’m not sure how this would be super useful, as opposed to just declaring both units as targets of the charge. Maybe they’re arranged in such a way that you couldn’t really make the charge roll, but after charging the target unit the pile-in allows extra movement and access to the desired pile-in target? Something like that? I may be over or under estimating the value of being able to do this, but it seems like a thing.

[Slat3]

Is it just me or are weapon abilities missing a page?

[Subtleknife]

What has happened to deny the witch? Please tell me that they having got rid of that? 

 

Also, why are grenades and smoke launchers a strat still....

[Slat3]

13 minutes ago, Subtleknife said:

What has happened to deny the witch? Please tell me that they having got rid of that? 

 

Also, why are grenades and smoke launchers a strat still....

Traditional deny is gone, but you can take anti-psyker weapons or equipment like the librarian’s 4+ FNP against psychic keyword weapons. Unless missing pages say otherwise psychic just means psychic and they’re no different than a non-psychic weapon with a similar profile (other than additional defenses against them). 
 

Again, this assumes Psychic isn’t detailed anywhere else in core.

[Eternal]

16 minutes ago, Subtleknife said:

What has happened to deny the witch? Please tell me that they having got rid of that? 

 

Also, why are grenades and smoke launchers a strat still....

Psychic is completely different now, with many powers just being weapons. Deny is gone because it's not really needed with the changes they've made.

[Emperor Ming]

Engagement range staying as it is, is just gonna confuse people that aint read those new pages, since the other rules reference base to base

[painting.for.my.sanity]

13 minutes ago, Eternal said:

Psychic is completely different now, with many powers just being weapons. Deny is gone because it's not really needed with the changes they've made.

 

Broadly agreed... but it's going to be interesting to see what they do with armies where denial is a really important thematic part of them, though - I wonder if SoBs and BTs will have a strat to block psychic weapons or similar. Totally losing that aspect of those armies would be sad (he says with a bit of a vested interest, collecting both!)

[Slat3]

7 minutes ago, painting.for.my.sanity said:

 

Broadly agreed... but it's going to be interesting to see what they do with armies where denial is a really important thematic part of them, though - I wonder if SoBs and BTs will have a strat to block psychic weapons or similar. Totally losing that aspect of those armies would be sad (he says with a bit of a vested interest, collecting both!)

It’s confirmed there are anti-psyker weapons, so maybe stuff like that.

Edited May 18, 2023 by Slat3

[Karhedron]

10 minutes ago, painting.for.my.sanity said:

 

Broadly agreed... but it's going to be interesting to see what they do with armies where denial is a really important thematic part of them, though - I wonder if SoBs and BTs will have a strat to block psychic weapons or similar. Totally losing that aspect of those armies would be sad (he says with a bit of a vested interest, collecting both!)

 

BTs and SOBs traditionally had skills to deny Psychic powers because they had no Psykers of their own to Deny the Witch. Now no one has DTW so BTs and SOBs don't particularly need their own equivalent ability.

[sairence]

14 minutes ago, painting.for.my.sanity said:

 

Broadly agreed... but it's going to be interesting to see what they do with armies where denial is a really important thematic part of them, though - I wonder if SoBs and BTs will have a strat to block psychic weapons or similar. Totally losing that aspect of those armies would be sad (he says with a bit of a vested interest, collecting both!)

 

I believe they said in one of the previews that stuff like SoS will basically not be affected by psychic attacks. So same as now, just approached in a different way.

[Subtleknife]

1 hour ago, Eternal said:

Psychic is completely different now, with many powers just being weapons. Deny is gone because it's not really needed with the changes they've made.

Why is it no longer needed? 

 

That doesn't really make sense. If an Army is able to cast spell to either buff or damage then it stands to reason pskyker in the opposing army should be able to stop that.

 

It just seems like GW have dumbed yet another mechanic down rather than make it more intuitive. 

 

You used to be able to tailor your psyker from a list of powers....now you are told what to take. You used to be able to defend against psyker attacks with other attacks...now you can't.

 

Not a good change imo.

[Blindhamster]

4 minutes ago, Subtleknife said:

Why is it no longer needed? 

 

That doesn't really make sense. If an Army is able to cast spell to either buff or damage then it stands to reason pskyker in the opposing army should be able to stop that.

 

It just seems like GW have dumbed yet another mechanic down rather than make it more intuitive. 

 

You used to be able to tailor your psyker from a list of powers....now you are told what to take. You used to be able to defend against psyker attacks with other attacks...now you can't.

 

Not a good change imo.

we still expect something like AoS with getting to select a power potentially

[Vermintide]

The requirement of base to base kind of raises an eyebrow for me, considering how many of their models nowadays are leaning forwards and dramatically swinging their weapon etc, thus overhanging their own base. I can't get the assault marines from Indomitus to stand base to base with each other, let alone an enemy, and I always assumed that's what all the 1" engagement range stuff from previous editions was all about.

[Eternal]

5 minutes ago, Subtleknife said:

Why is it no longer needed? 

 

That doesn't really make sense. If an Army is able to cast spell to either buff or damage then it stands to reason pskyker in the opposing army should be able to stop that.

 

It just seems like GW have dumbed yet another mechanic down rather than make it more intuitive. 

 

You used to be able to tailor your psyker from a list of powers....now you are told what to take. You used to be able to defend against psyker attacks with other attacks...now you can't.

 

Not a good change imo.

Can you stop one of Angron's auras going off? Can you stop AdMech Canticles affecting a unit, or an enemy strat from debuffing your guys?

 

There's no inherent reason there has to be a Deny ability. If the system is adjusted so the vast majority of powers are just weapons, you get your regular defence against them anyway. We've seen there's a pseudo-deny from the Terminator Librarian, who grants FnP against Psychic attacks, so some sort of psychic defence still exists.

 

I think the problem with psychic in 40k, compared to magic in WHFB, which it seems to be trying to emulate, is psychic powers are much less integrated into the game so it's much more common to have armies with no defence whatsoever. Tau literally have no defence at all, and Necrons might as well have none. Imperial Knights too. When you then also have armies like GK and TS, it creates a negative play experience, especially when combined with the fact psychic powers usually deal MWs. By adjusting the system so psykers can still buff/debuff, but within a carefully controlled context and the offensive powers are largely regular weapons, it brings psychic powers much more into the flow of the regular game, rather than feeling like this tacked-on extra damage phase that many armies are completely locked out of.

 

The whole psychic phase for the last 2 editions has been terrible, IMO. There's no strategy there, no real interplay between the caster and the defender because there's barely any ability to manipulate the dice on either side, so it just devolved into chucking 2D6 and hoping for a high number, while the defender just had to hope the power they wanted to stop either didn't go off, or rolled low enough to attempt to Deny. I'll be glad to see the back of it.

[TrawlingCleaner]

5 minutes ago, Subtleknife said:

Why is it no longer needed? 

 

That doesn't really make sense. If an Army is able to cast spell to either buff or damage then it stands to reason pskyker in the opposing army should be able to stop that.

 

It just seems like GW have dumbed yet another mechanic down rather than make it more intuitive. 

 

You used to be able to tailor your psyker from a list of powers....now you are told what to take. You used to be able to defend against psyker attacks with other attacks...now you can't.

 

Not a good change imo.

 

With powers that deal damage to the enemy units the "Casting" Value is: Roll to hit (if it doesn't have Torrent), Roll to Wound, Roll to Save. You gain benefits of -/+ to hit, wound and save so in effect, your roll to "Deny" is you rolling armour/FNP saves.

The thing it does stop is say for example a Space Marine player brings a Librarian in their army with some cool powers, it stops other Psykers that are better or just get lucky denying everything they do. Bringing a normal Psyker vs Magnus or Eldrad for example, was basically a waste of time and points. It would be like having two Sniper characters that could shoot each other's bullets out of the air before they hit

 

It's a different system for sure, I'm not sure it's worse but it definitely means more participation from the lesser knowns

[Frogian]

12 hours ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

 

I feel now that most characters don't have auras and instead join units the whole conga line thing matters less, but someone will always find a way to abuse the rules.

Surely now there is less auras, congas will become more prevalent in terms of blocking off enemy movements? 

[Karhedron]

34 minutes ago, Frogian said:

Surely now there is less auras, congas will become more prevalent in terms of blocking off enemy movements? 

 

Auras never prevented conga lines for screening etc. The problem with conga lines is that it usually means giving up positions in cover (unless you battlefield has lots of long, straight hedges  ).

[phandaal]

For what it's worth, there are quotes from one of the supposed playtesters making the rounds on Discord. He says Tsons will make extensive use of the psychic keyword with their abilities, and anti-psyker abilities are not going to be all that prevalent. The librarian just happens to have one and be one of the first models shown off.

[Special Officer Doofy]

1 hour ago, Frogian said:

Surely now there is less auras, congas will become more prevalent in terms of blocking off enemy movements? 

 

Where there is a will there is a way!