Warhammer 40k Core Rules Leaked

[zero888]

Command re roll is no longer a singular die, so it looks like the charge re roll is back to both. The ingress strat is really cool as well.

[Subtleknife]

4 hours ago, Eternal said:

Can you stop one of Angron's auras going off? Can you stop AdMech Canticles affecting a unit, or an enemy strat from debuffing your guys?

 

There's no inherent reason there has to be a Deny ability. If the system is adjusted so the vast majority of powers are just weapons, you get your regular defence against them anyway. We've seen there's a pseudo-deny from the Terminator Librarian, who grants FnP against Psychic attacks, so some sort of psychic defence still exists.

 

I think the problem with psychic in 40k, compared to magic in WHFB, which it seems to be trying to emulate, is psychic powers are much less integrated into the game so it's much more common to have armies with no defence whatsoever. Tau literally have no defence at all, and Necrons might as well have none. Imperial Knights too. When you then also have armies like GK and TS, it creates a negative play experience, especially when combined with the fact psychic powers usually deal MWs. By adjusting the system so psykers can still buff/debuff, but within a carefully controlled context and the offensive powers are largely regular weapons, it brings psychic powers much more into the flow of the regular game, rather than feeling like this tacked-on extra damage phase that many armies are completely locked out of.

 

The whole psychic phase for the last 2 editions has been terrible, IMO. There's no strategy there, no real interplay between the caster and the defender because there's barely any ability to manipulate the dice on either side, so it just devolved into chucking 2D6 and hoping for a high number, while the defender just had to hope the power they wanted to stop either didn't go off, or rolled low enough to attempt to Deny. I'll be glad to see the back of it.

Angrons aurors or ad mechs canticle are not psychic power. In the lore psykers can prevent other psykers from manifesting their powers. Your comparisons are not comparable.

 

Deny the witch has been a staple and allowed psychic heavy armies to dominate that area both in offence and defence as they should.

 

This new change is just dumbing down the game.

[DemonGSides]

27 minutes ago, Subtleknife said:

Angrons aurors or ad mechs canticle are not psychic power. In the lore psykers can prevent other psykers from manifesting their powers. Your comparisons are not comparable.

 

Deny the witch has been a staple and allowed psychic heavy armies to dominate that area both in offence and defence as they should.

 

This new change is just dumbing down the game.

 

By your same logic, my Logistarium Corp, which wouldn't be represented on the tabletop since they aren't a combat oriented unit, would be shooting out data chaff to disrupt the opponents Noosphere network and make sure that their canticles didn't reach their troops.
 

We've seen ways to deny psychic. 

Edited May 18, 2023 by TrawlingCleaner
Removal of non-constructive jab

[Subtleknife]

3 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

 

By your same logic, my Logistarium Corp, which wouldn't be represented on the tabletop since they aren't a combat oriented unit, would be shooting out data chaff to disrupt the opponents Noosphere network and make sure that their canticles didn't reach their troops.
 

We've seen ways to deny psychic. 

 

 

What has this got to do with anything I've said? 

 

In the lore psykers can defend against other psykers. This has been represented for quite a while now on the tabletop. All psykers could deny the witch. There now is no mechanic, as far as I can see, to do this with each psyker. This represents a dumbing down of the mechanics on the tabletop rather than streamlining imo. I have seen this in a few other areas with tenth where the changes are not positive for me

 

Your noosphere example has never been represented in the tabletop like deny the witch has. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2023 by Subtleknife

[DemonGSides]

38 minutes ago, Subtleknife said:

What has this got to do with anything I've said? 

 

In the lore psykers can defend against other psykers. This has been represented for quite a while now on the tabletop. All psykers could deny the witch. There now is no mechanic, as far as I can see, to do this with each psyker. This represents a dumbing down of the mechanics on the tabletop rather than streamlining imo. I have seen this in a few other areas with tenth where the changes are not positive for me

 

Your noosphere example has never been represented in the tabletop like deny the witch has.

 

The point is, that denying psyker powers has been a GAME mechanic.  Most of the lore Psyker battles are not "I tap 3 mana and cast Mana Leak" style power disruption, it's more or less psychic battles with energies and forces.  This can't really work in a turn based game as most of those battles happen over seconds, and each turn represents minutes.  Hence, why Deny the Witch is the way it is now; it's an extrapolation.

In 10th, there is no psyker phase, so there's no deny the witch, because the concept of psychic battles are changing in this edition.  This is not a dumbing down, it's a change.  You obviously are reacting strongly to change, and I get that.

But the issue arises in that you've developed a whole narrative about how non-psyker armies are going to deal with psyker units, when we've been given no information on that.  And not in an underhanded way; none of our "Quintessential" anti-psyker armies have been previewed, so you're literally getting up in arms over nothing.

Hence why I made fun of you about noosphere logic; a lot of armies have phases and things that, ostensibly, in Lore, should be able to be interacted with.  But they don't, because the tabletop game is an abstract.  We don't  mess around with things like logistics, or communications (Unless you're a tyranid), or even a real utilization of morale, because the game is an abstraction of the lore.  If we take that same level of vitriol that you have over the psychic phase changing, then we've gotta apply it evenly across the entire game, and I think that's going to not end up with the "dumbing down" of the game that you fear, it's going to over complicate things for no reason whatsoever.

What benefit did you have from choosing (Or really, Rolling, if you wanted to be legit about it) on the psychic table?  You basically made it so that Magnus did the exact same thing as Ahriman who does the exact same thing as  an Exhalted Sorceror who does the exact same thing as a Regular Sorceror.

Now, you can have Magnus do REALLY AWESOME stuff, Ahriman do REALLY COOL stuff, Exhalted do SUPER NEAT stuff, and then a regular sorceror can be a lot more plain in the psychic phase.  I don't see how this is a dumbing down.  And on top of it, now there's not some paltry ass Primaris Pskyer from the Astra Militarum basically stonewalling Magnus, something that makes literal 0 sense in lore, as psyker power rankings are pretty well understood.

 

It's a good change.

Edited May 18, 2023 by DemonGSides

[Iron Father Imeran Byon]

37 minutes ago, Subtleknife said:

 

 

What has this got to do with anything I've said? 

 

In the lore psykers can defend against other psykers. This has been represented for quite a while now on the tabletop. All psykers could deny the witch. There now is no mechanic, as far as I can see, to do this with each psyker. This represents a dumbing down of the mechanics on the tabletop rather than streamlining imo. I have seen this in a few other areas with tenth where the changes are not positive for me

 

Your noosphere example has never been represented in the tabletop like deny the witch has. 

 

 

 

 

 

Sometimes mechanics in humongous works of rules like 40k get dragged along because "it always was like this."

 

Arguably, this has also been the way with how the psychic phase was one of the core elements of the game.

That, in and of itself, doesn't mean it was good or bad. Just that it has always been this way.

 

But since the earliest editions of 40k - where the psychic phase and/or powers were introduced - a lot has changed. Mainly the introduction of now several factions, that don't have any access to said mechanics. Sometimes there's a side note, but most of the time there is just nothing to interact with for these factions, like factions with psykers could.
Necrons, T'au, Imperial Knights, AdMech, Custodes, maybe I forget some. None of these have the "psyker mind-war" equivalent that the older factions had, and which you are describing. They needed shoehorned-in ways to have anything that roughly equates to that. Which, most recently, resulted in very boring FnPs against attacks and maybe stratagems to cancel a psycic buff, sometimes.

 

I'm not saying that GW has gone the best possible way with this. I, too, miss the idea of two psykers going literally head-to-head and fighting for who holds and keeps the most power. But the more unified way they implemented, as it seems, it definitely not just a "dumbing down" and more or less what they should do, to strife for over-all balance. Yes, we lose more than we gain. But at least all are on a more even playing field. That's what balancing does.

[spessmarine]

Barbgaunts are going to be nerfed real soon, since a unit can split fire and you only need to hit to get the effect, a single unit can basically slow an enemy's army to a crawl. 
Obviously depends on your opponent, tanks and armies with loads of guns will get around the issue whereas footslog deathguard will struggle to get anywhere. 
 

Nerfed to maybe require successful wounding so disruption isn't guaranteed 

[DemonGSides]

I think if they just changed it to "All weapons of the same name must shoot the same target" and otherwise keep splitfiring the way it is and it would solve that issue.

That way you'd have to have basically one unit of barbs for every unit you wanted to disrupt, instead of being able to farm out 5 units of disurption for one unit of barbgaunts.

[Nephaston]

15 minutes ago, spessmarine said:

Barbgaunts are going to be nerfed real soon, since a unit can split fire and you only need to hit to get the effect, a single unit can basically slow an enemy's army to a crawl. 
Obviously depends on your opponent, tanks and armies with loads of guns will get around the issue whereas footslog deathguard will struggle to get anywhere. 
 

Nerfed to maybe require successful wounding so disruption isn't guaranteed 

Or like the infernus squads ability "pick a unit of those you shot with pyreblasters"

[spessmarine]

5 minutes ago, Nephaston said:

Or like the infernus squads ability "pick a unit of those you shot with pyreblasters"

Yeah something to cap disrupted units works too. Otherwise talk about unfun in certain matchups. 

[Ammonius]

7 minutes ago, spessmarine said:

Yeah something to cap disrupted units works too. Otherwise talk about unfun in certain matchups. 

At least that Bio-Cannon only has a range of 24", so by the time they are zapping your infantry with Slo-Mo shots, you probably have some shooting for them too. I imagine these bugs will do a great job of attracting Indirect Artillery and long range shots early in the game.

[Scribe]

I think its important to remember that the rules are always a given level of abstraction. This Deny/Psyker tangent just reflects different views on how specific a system needs to be, depends on the players own view. We used to get by without a specific phase, it doesnt seem terrible to drop it now.

[ThePenitentOne]

3 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

What benefit did you have from choosing (Or really, Rolling, if you wanted to be legit about it) on the psychic table?  You basically made it so that Magnus did the exact same thing as Ahriman who does the exact same thing as  an Exhalted Sorceror who does the exact same thing as a Regular Sorceror.

Now, you can have Magnus do REALLY AWESOME stuff, Ahriman do REALLY COOL stuff, Exhalted do SUPER NEAT stuff, and then a regular sorceror can be a lot more plain in the psychic phase.  I don't see how this is a dumbing down.  And on top of it, now there's not some paltry ass Primaris Pskyer from the Astra Militarum basically stonewalling Magnus, something that makes literal 0 sense in lore, as psyker power rankings are pretty well understood.

 

It's a good change.

 

The benefit of choosing is that not all Sorcerors have identical powers, not all Librarians have identical powers and not all GSC Magi have identical powers, which is super boring. It never made it so that Magnus had the same powers as Ahriman- it made it so that Magnus COULD have the same powers as Ahriman if that's what YOU wanted. Now Magnus has these powers whether you like it or not, and if you don't, your only recourse or player agency is "Don't take Magnus." 

 

We MIGHT have Magnus do really REALLY AWESOME stuff, and Ahriman do REALLY COOL stuff, and Exalted do SUPER NEAT stuff, IF GW gets all that right. And even if you've seen all those rules, and YOU think GW got all four datacards perfect, just remember that this doesn't mean EVERYONE ELSE thinks so, now there's just nothing they can do about it. I much preferred being able to give Magnus the powers that I thought were Really Awesome and Ahriman the powers that I thought were Really Cool, etc.  

 

Some will argue that powers cool enough to suit Magnus could not have been a part of the old psychic tables, because if they had been, it would lead to a mere Sorceror choosing the power that was more suitable for Magnus, and I'll cut you some slack and say there's some validity to that argument. But I, and others like me, believe that this was actually kind of cool.... Because while we COULD have chosen to give the worthy of Magnus power to Magnus, we also had the agency to tell an interesting story about a lowly sorceror who starts out in command of a 25PL Crusade with wimpy psychic powers, but takes a pshychic fortitude as a battle honour every time it levels up until at Legendary it finally learns the Cool Enough for Magnus ability, and rivals the primarch himself. THAT'S a year worth of games that would be fun to play.

 

But nope: Only Magnus can ever know what Magnus knows, and if you want your army to be able to do that thing, the only way it can happen is if Magnus is in the battle even if it's 25 PL- which is BEYOND STOOPID because Magnus wouldn't stoop to being part of a 25 PL battle, but hey, GW has decreed it, so screw you and YOUR DUDES... Can we interest you in a $200 model that's only suitable for epic battles of 2k +.

 

The new system sucks- it ain't worth the digital download it's written on. And I didn't check your post history, so I don't know how you come down on combi weapons, but if people can whine for two threads about that, than others amongst us certainly have the right to call the new psychic rules what they are: inadequate to give players meaningful choices about how each of their units behave on the table top.

 

Fortunately, there is enough that's good about what we've seen that the GAME may still be fun, even if the psychic rules are dumpster fire, and it's a good thing, because they are.

 

Edited May 18, 2023 by ThePenitentOne

[redmapa]

Overwatch strat sounds really cool, I can already see hellhounds, flamer sentinels or any flamer heavy squad being parked near an objective and just torching a unit that gets in range. 

 

I like what I see but I still need to see the detachments.

[Slat3]

1 hour ago, redmapa said:

Overwatch strat sounds really cool, I can already see hellhounds, flamer sentinels or any flamer heavy squad being parked near an objective and just torching a unit that gets in range. 

 

I like what I see but I still need to see the detachments.

Yeah. And with HI now being a charge move you could overwatch the HI. They could theoretically fail the HI too. Spend 2CP to attempt HI, get blasted, then fail the charge.

[WrathOfTheLion]

1 hour ago, redmapa said:

Overwatch strat sounds really cool, I can already see hellhounds, flamer sentinels or any flamer heavy squad being parked near an objective and just torching a unit that gets in range. 

 

I like what I see but I still need to see the detachments.

Rubric Marines could be really fun. I'm interested to see what Thousand Sons will look like.

[Subtleknife]

Quote

The point is, that denying psyker powers has been a GAME mechanic.  Most of the lore Psyker battles are not "I tap 3 mana and cast Mana Leak" style power disruption, it's more or less psychic battles with energies and forces.  This can't really work in a turn based game as most of those battles happen over seconds, and each turn represents minutes.  Hence, why Deny the Witch is the way it is now; it's an extrapolation.
 

I am unsure of your point here. It is bleeding obvious that deny the witch is an extrapolation. I haven't said it isn't. What it does do is represent the lore on the tabletop in a fluffy way which is important for me.

 

Quote

In 10th, there is no psyker phase, so there's no deny the witch, because the concept of psychic battles are changing in this edition.  This is not a dumbing down, it's a change.  You obviously are reacting strongly to change, and I get that.

This really isn't a good point. There are a million different ways GW could have kept deny the witch. For instance, when a ork shaman makes a psychic attack (as attacks are marked as psychic) the defending psyker can make a deny the witch if with x etc. If successful the attack is denied. 

 

This is a text book definition of dumbing down. They have simplified the rules in order to make them easier in order to cater to a wider audience.

 

Quote

But the issue arises in that you've developed a whole narrative about how non-psyker armies are going to deal with psyker units, when we've been given no information on that.  And not in an underhanded way; none of our "Quintessential" anti-psyker armies have been previewed, so you're literally getting up in arms over nothing.

I haven't developed any "narrative". I have said that I dislike the removal of deny the witch.

 

Quote

Hence why I made fun of you

 

Oh that is nice of you. Didn't think that was in the spirit of these forums...

 

Quote

about noosphere logic; a lot of armies have phases and things that, ostensibly, in Lore,

You brought in a point entirely irrelevant to the conversation. None of the things you listed have any previous mechanics in game.

 

Quote

What benefit did you have from choosing (Or really, Rolling, if you wanted to be legit about it) on the psychic table?  You basically made it so that Magnus did the exact same thing as Ahriman who does the exact same thing as  an Exhalted Sorceror who does the exact same thing as a Regular Sorceror.

Irrelevant. I'm not discussing Rolling for psychic powers.

 

Quote

Now, you can have Magnus do REALLY AWESOME stuff, Ahriman do REALLY COOL stuff, Exhalted do SUPER NEAT stuff, and then a regular sorceror can be a lot more plain in the psychic phase.  I don't see how this is a dumbing down. 

Irrelevant again. I'm not talking about Rolling for psychic powers. It is about the removal of a mechanic from the game. 

 

Since you appear to be engaging in bad faith, and by your own admission 'attempting' to mock I will not be responding further.

Edited May 19, 2023 by Subtleknife

[phandaal]

15 minutes ago, Slat3 said:

Yeah. And with HI now being a charge move you could overwatch the HI. They could theoretically fail the HI too. Spend 2CP to attempt HI, get blasted, then fail the charge.

 

Overwatch is done during your opponent's turn, so it cannot be used against Heroic Intervention.

[SkimaskMohawk]

@Subtleknife some people really don't like it when you talk about how the game is getting more abstract in various ways, or losing mechanics.  If its not praise for the 8th+ style of design, it gets a disagree

 

Edit: in before khornstar hits this one with a disagree

 

Edited May 19, 2023 by SkimaskMohawk

[Slat3]

49 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

Overwatch is done during your opponent's turn, so it cannot be used against Heroic Intervention.

Overwatch is used in “your opponents movement or charge phase.” And HI is now performed as if it were in your charge phase. Isn’t restricted by turn.

[phandaal]

45 minutes ago, Slat3 said:

Overwatch is used in “your opponents movement or charge phase.” And HI is now performed as if it were in your charge phase. Isn’t restricted by turn.

 

Overwatch is in fact restricted by turn, as are all Strategems. GW even color coded it to make things extra obvious.

 

By all means though, try to be clever and see what your opponent does. Maybe they will respond by playing Go to Ground for that 6++ invuln next time you Overwatch, since Overwatch tells you to shoot as if it were your Shooting phase. Or even better, if you are playing Votann they can use Reactive Reprisal to get a free extra round of shooting on you with the unit you just Overwatched. Then you too can Go to Ground, since Reactive Reprisal says to shoot as if it were your Shooting phase. Round and round we go!

[DemonGSides]

2 hours ago, Subtleknife said:

I am unsure of your point here. It is bleeding obvious that deny the witch is an extrapolation. I haven't said it isn't. What it does do is represent the lore on the tabletop in a fluffy way which is important for me.

 

Point being they are manifesting the lore in different ways now.  Cope.

 

2 hours ago, Subtleknife said:

This really isn't a good point. There are a million different ways GW could have kept deny the witch. For instance, when a ork shaman makes a psychic attack (as attacks are marked as psychic) the defending psyker can make a deny the witch if with x etc. If successful the attack is denied. 

 

And they probably will!  My point was that you've decided they aren't, and they have already said they will.  They mentioned in earlier articles that anti-psych armies will manifest that deny the witch in their own ways.

 

2 hours ago, Subtleknife said:

This is a text book definition of dumbing down. They have simplified the rules in order to make them easier in order to cater to a wider audience.

 

I don't necessarily think it's dumbing down.  It's a refocusing of how it exists.  Dumbing down is negative and that's the only frame you're willing to look at it in.

 

2 hours ago, Subtleknife said:

I haven't developed any "narrative". I have said that I dislike the removal of deny the witch.

Yes, the narrative as mentioned above, that Deny the Witch is completely gone.  Which it isn't, it's just different than it was.

 

2 hours ago, Subtleknife said:

Oh that is nice of you. Didn't think that was in the spirit of these forums...

Of course it was.  I was poking fun of your wild reaction to something you fabricated.  Don't take life so seriously, especially online internet discussions.  I didn't hurt your feelings, hopefully.  If I did I'm sorry.

 

2 hours ago, Subtleknife said:

You brought in a point entirely irrelevant to the conversation. None of the things you listed have any previous mechanics in game.

But they could've been, which was the point, as mentioned.  And they are; canticles exist!  Why can't I disrupt them?  Skitarii being messed with on the Noospheric level is all over the lore.  Why can't I interrupt Astra Militarum orders with a good roll?  You can jam comms.  Point being, not everything NEEDS to be represented everywhere; Tyranids DO have communication interruption, because it's an important faction mechanic.  And I bet Black Templars will, if have ways to Deny the Witch, as is their faction identity.

 

2 hours ago, Subtleknife said:

Irrelevant. I'm not discussing Rolling for psychic powers.

I know, I was expanding on other benefits to the change of psychic powers.  The boards don't revolve around your opinion.

 

2 hours ago, Subtleknife said:

Irrelevant again. I'm not talking about Rolling for psychic powers. It is about the removal of a mechanic from the game. 

Same as above.
 

2 hours ago, Subtleknife said:

 

Since you appear to be engaging in bad faith, and by your own admission 'attempting' to mock I will not be responding further.

The mute button is pretty easy to find!  But hopefully you can grow a thicker skin when discussing plastic army men

[Silas7]

5 hours ago, ThePenitentOne said:

 

The benefit of choosing is that not all Sorcerors have identical powers, not all Librarians have identical powers and not all GSC Magi have identical powers, which is super boring. It never made it so that Magnus had the same powers as Ahriman- it made it so that Magnus COULD have the same powers as Ahriman if that's what YOU wanted. Now Magnus has these powers whether you like it or not, and if you don't, your only recourse or player agency is "Don't take Magnus." 

 

We MIGHT have Magnus do really REALLY AWESOME stuff, and Ahriman do REALLY COOL stuff, and Exalted do SUPER NEAT stuff, IF GW gets all that right. And even if you've seen all those rules, and YOU think GW got all four datacards perfect, just remember that this doesn't mean EVERYONE ELSE thinks so, now there's just nothing they can do about it. I much preferred being able to give Magnus the powers that I thought were Really Awesome and Ahriman the powers that I thought were Really Cool, etc.  

 

Some will argue that powers cool enough to suit Magnus could not have been a part of the old psychic tables, because if they had been, it would lead to a mere Sorceror choosing the power that was more suitable for Magnus, and I'll cut you some slack and say there's some validity to that argument. But I, and others like me, believe that this was actually kind of cool.... Because while we COULD have chosen to give the worthy of Magnus power to Magnus, we also had the agency to tell an interesting story about a lowly sorceror who starts out in command of a 25PL Crusade with wimpy psychic powers, but takes a pshychic fortitude as a battle honour every time it levels up until at Legendary it finally learns the Cool Enough for Magnus ability, and rivals the primarch himself. THAT'S a year worth of games that would be fun to play.

 

But nope: Only Magnus can ever know what Magnus knows, and if you want your army to be able to do that thing, the only way it can happen is if Magnus is in the battle even if it's 25 PL- which is BEYOND STOOPID because Magnus wouldn't stoop to being part of a 25 PL battle, but hey, GW has decreed it, so screw you and YOUR DUDES... Can we interest you in a $200 model that's only suitable for epic battles of 2k +.

 

The new system sucks- it ain't worth the digital download it's written on. And I didn't check your post history, so I don't know how you come down on combi weapons, but if people can whine for two threads about that, than others amongst us certainly have the right to call the new psychic rules what they are: inadequate to give players meaningful choices about how each of their units behave on the table top.

 

Fortunately, there is enough that's good about what we've seen that the GAME may still be fun, even if the psychic rules are dumpster fire, and it's a good thing, because they are.

 

 

After reading your post Penitent this gave me the idea of why Gw hasn't just kept the old psychic disciplines but went for a hybrid style. For example you treat psykers like warlords each getting to pick one trait from a list (discipline) but each named character is still given one or two other built-in abilities to make them unique. You still get some flex and flavour.

 

 

 

39 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

Overwatch is in fact restricted by turn, as are all Strategems. GW even color coded it to make things extra obvious.

 

By all means though, try to be clever and see what your opponent does. Maybe they will respond by playing Go to Ground for that 6++ invuln next time you Overwatch, since Overwatch tells you to shoot as if it were your Shooting phase. Or even better, if you are playing Votann they can use Reactive Reprisal to get a free extra round of shooting on you with the unit you just Overwatched. Then you too can Go to Ground, since Reactive Reprisal says to shoot as if it were your Shooting phase. Round and round we go!

 

Circles within circles, Phases within phases! Just as planned....

[Malakithe]

Im not a fan of the changes to powers and casting being gone in general. Hopefully we can still choose from a list of powers and hopefully the restriction to using the same power per turn is gone otherwise TSons players that use 5 units of Rubrics will just have another color of basic marines that stand there and shoot. Thats not why I like playing TSons

[MegaVolt87]

22 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Im not a fan of the changes to powers and casting being gone in general. Hopefully we can still choose from a list of powers and hopefully the restriction to using the same power per turn is gone otherwise TSons players that use 5 units of Rubrics will just have another color of basic marines that stand there and shoot. Thats not why I like playing TSons

 

I would not worry about it. The way GW writes codexes now, factions like TS and GK will ignore the core book rules and do their own thing for say, psyker power use. Codex design ignoring most core rules and mechanics are a design feature of 8th-9th ed 40k. I expect much the same when 10th ed codexes begin releasing.