Anyone less excited for 10th than they were?

[Rain]

1 hour ago, Indy Techwisp said:

I just wanna see my faction preview to be honest.
The removal of the Psychic Phase means that the Thousand Son's primary gimmick is now up in the air, so it's kinda unnerving that we haven't seen either TSons or Grey Knights yet considering the removal of that phase is a major concern for our factions.

I hear they have something really strong brewing for Tzaangor shamans.

[Evil Eye]

My excitement has...majorly declined. I get the impression a lot of the things that made me dislike 9th- the excessive "Gaminess", simultaneous excessive bloat and also annoying simplification (somehow!), stripping out of customization options, poorly implemented "seasons" and balance patches that only serve to invalidate book content and make any kind of long-term plans impossible- are staying. Vehicles actually being vehicles and not just regular units with a keyword, templates for area of effect weapons, actual support for conversions and some kind of stability appear to be things GW is moving away from permanently, and I can't say I'm happy about that. At all. Actually, I'm pretty angry about it.

 

If I were older and more jaded I'd just shrug my shoulders and go back to playing a better edition. However, I'm just shy of 27 and filled with venom, so instead I shall formulate a plan to punish GW for their mishandling of 40K which will either result in GW mending their ways or completely collapsing, and the game license either being picked up by someone who knows what they're doing or else going into the public domain, becoming decentralized and thus free of the tyranny of a single incompetent company.

 

That, or I'll just grumble and complain about it whenever possible. Probably that.

[Antarius]

On 5/18/2023 at 2:02 PM, Xenith said:

I'd be super tempted to freeze the game at 10th ed release with the indexes and play the whole edition like that. I don't see myself at many 40k tourneys. Might be a fun and cheap way to play! 

This is very much where I’m at too. If codexes introduce new models, I guess I might add them (should be easy if it’s just a question of datacards) or just use them as proxies for other models (big tyranid gribbly Y could probably just as well be big tyranid gribbly X, as long as you know what’s going on).

But we shall see. In any case, I’m not going to follow what, 20?, factions and continuous changes and updates. I have neither the time, nor the inclination for that.

[CMDR_Welles]

More I hear, the less excited I get. I'm getting a lot of transition to 3e vibes going, and I don't know if I like going through that again... 

I really liked 8e, but  it did need some trimming. 9e failed to do any, and just made it worse. I think they really had something going with the 8e Apocalypse rules, and should have used them as a base to develop 9e from. I think 10e is going to far into stripping out flavor for chasing balance for tournament play that the game as a whole is going to suffer. That's my fear anyway. 

 

I dont mind Universal Special Rules are back, but if you are still going to have easy to reference Datasheets and I still have to flip through a rulebook most of a game, why bother having easy to reference Datasheets? USR is great, but its not an excuse not to print them on the datasheets for easy reference. 

 

I hate Twin Linked... I've hated it since it was introduced to the game in whatever edition (3rd?) it was... Hate that it is back, even if it is wound roll now and not to hit, Still sucks... 

 

Starter box models looks nice. With how things have been lately, will I even get one before the scalpers have them all? Who knows.... 

Anyway, my 2 cents. Dont know if I'll get to play again this edition, thanks to the agoraphobia, but the models should keep me busy at least. 

[Arkhanist]

My initial impression of Leviathan was WAAANT - I love pretty much everything in both halves. What's cooled me off is the horrorshow that has been killteam releases selling out in seconds. I've signed up for a register of interest at my usual FLGS for Leviathan, and if I miss out there due to not enough pre-order stock, I'm dreading having to deal with GW's crappy website+queue for the main site pre-order with everyone else plus a bot swarm. They've already said no MTO for leviathan, so if I miss that I'm far less interested in picking it up much later at far higher cost as separates, and I'm definitely not paying a scalper.

 

I'm mostly a painter rather than a gamer for 40k ATM (young kids), (the rules look much better than the complex rules-on-rules-on-rules of 9th though), but I've bought the big launch box for every 40k edition since 2nd, and quite a few for WFB/AOS. I'm preparing for the distinct possibility this is going to be the one I end up missing.

Edited May 21, 2023 by Arkhanist

[Borbarad]

9th edition was nice but definitely due for a closure. For somebody who plays once a month and doesn’t have the time and willpower to remember the layer upon layers of rule, the simplification is a welcome change. 
 

Will it be perfect? Surely not; 40k is to complex for that and many aspects of it come down to subjective tastes. 
 

For the armies I own (DA, Custodes, Daemons, WE and Chaos Knights) I’m very positive so far.
 

My biggest wish for 10th is to be able to use most of my collection without feeling that I shot myself in the foot for bringing obviously bad units. 

[Gederas]

I'm less excited only because the drip-feed is actually doing the opposite of hype building for me. It also doesn't help that, as time goes on, I'm realizing I'm far less interested in sci-fi settings over fantasy ones.

 

Which is why, despite having a decent force of Marines in my "to paint list", I've basically only been working on my Gravelords for AoS /shrug

Edited May 21, 2023 by Gederas

[sarabando]

absolutly zero hype for tenth, ive decided to not even try to get a leviathan box. if painting marines wasnt my no.1 hobby by a country mile id be looking at probably never having anything to do with GW in any way shape or form tbh. Their current handling of things is either chronic idiocy or malevolence, and im not sure which is worse. 

[Antarius]

3 hours ago, Arkhanist said:

My initial impression of Leviathan was WAAANT - I love pretty much everything in both halves. What's cooled me off is the horrorshow that has been killteam releases selling out in seconds. I've signed up for a register of interest at my usual FLGS for Leviathan, and if I miss out there due to not enough pre-order stock, I'm dreading having to deal with GW's crappy website+queue for the main site pre-order with everyone else plus a bot swarm. They've already said no MTO for leviathan, so if I miss that I'm far less interested in picking it up much later at far higher cost as separates, and I'm definitely not paying a scalper.

 

I'm mostly a painter rather than a gamer for 40k ATM (young kids), (the rules look much better than the complex rules-on-rules-on-rules of 9th though), but I've bought the big launch box for every 40k edition since 2nd, and quite a few for WFB/AOS. I'm preparing for the distinct possibility this is going to be the one I end up missing.

I don't know, of course, but I think it's fair to say that they're probably producing a lot of boxes and that that's probably a big part of the explanation for recent shortages of e.g. Kill Team products.
So I really wouldn't worry about not getting Leviathan, especially if you've already signed up for a copy. But yeah, buying it from GW's site on the launch day is probably not going to be a fun experience (unless, for some reason, you really enjoy internet queues).

[Arkhanist]

1 hour ago, Antarius said:

I don't know, of course, but I think it's fair to say that they're probably producing a lot of boxes and that that's probably a big part of the explanation for recent shortages of e.g. Kill Team products.
So I really wouldn't worry about not getting Leviathan, especially if you've already signed up for a copy. But yeah, buying it from GW's site on the launch day is probably not going to be a fun experience (unless, for some reason, you really enjoy internet queues).

 

I just remember what a mess Indomitus was - I did have to order from the main GW site as my FLGS didn't get enough allocated to meet all their pre-pre-orders, and though I did get a copy after getting in the GW website queue early and surviving several timeouts, it went out of stock literally a couple of minutes after that. If they hadn't belatedly added a MTO run afterwards, a loooot of people would have missed out or had to buy from the (many, many, many) scalpers, and I could very easily have been one of them. And they made an absolutely unprecedented amount of Indomitus ahead of time too.

 

Saying up front there's not going to be a MTO means the scalpers are going to be out in force, so I imagine stock will shift at a phenomenal rate. GW haven't improved their website or logistics under load since then - if anything, it's got worse!

 

I could of course be entirely wrong, it could be a Dominion situation and it's trivial to pick up 3 boxes at a discount weeks later if you want; but given it's 40k and two popular factions plus new terminators, I'm trying to manage my own expectations.

Edited May 21, 2023 by Arkhanist

[Sea Creature]

My FLG has guaranteed me they can get the Leviathan box for me. They have always come through. Probably a good idea to start checking around now.

[Vermintide]

5 hours ago, Arkhanist said:

 

I just remember what a mess Indomitus was - I did have to order from the main GW site as my FLGS didn't get enough allocated to meet all their pre-pre-orders, and though I did get a copy after getting in the GW website queue early and surviving several timeouts, it went out of stock literally a couple of minutes after that. If they hadn't belatedly added a MTO run afterwards, a loooot of people would have missed out or had to buy from the (many, many, many) scalpers, and I could very easily have been one of them. And they made an absolutely unprecedented amount of Indomitus ahead of time too.

 

Saying up front there's not going to be a MTO means the scalpers are going to be out in force, so I imagine stock will shift at a phenomenal rate. GW haven't improved their website or logistics under load since then - if anything, it's got worse!

 

I could of course be entirely wrong, it could be a Dominion situation and it's trivial to pick up 3 boxes at a discount weeks later if you want; but given it's 40k and two popular factions plus new terminators, I'm trying to manage my own expectations.

 

I'm pretty sure Indomitus was in a pretty unique position because it was really unprecedented value compared to a lot of their previous launch/starter boxes, and because in terms of the marine half at least, it was basically all killer no filler- Eradicators, Bladeguard, and Outriders were pretty universally well received, stuff almost everyone wanted. People would have paid the asking price just for the Marines, so nobody was complaining about getting a decent half an army's worth of brand new Necrons on top of that.

 

And let's not forget the you-know-what, which played a massive role in Indomitus' success, because everyone was stuck inside and needed something to do.

 

With Leviathan I am predicting a bit of a cooler response, I've seen a much more mixed reaction to the flamer dudes, the Strenguard come with a mixed loadout not everyone will be keen on, and while obviously everyone loves Terminators, I think a lot of people are going to want to wait for a full multi-part kit rather than monopose box set versions. Meanwhile the 'Nids are just 'Nids- Everyone likes them, everyone has praised the models, but who is really itching get their hands on them?

 

I reckon in the end there will be plenty to go around this time. The only trouble will, as ever, be eBay scalpers, but I don't think they'll get away with the actual scalping for long this time before they are forced to drop the price.

[2PlusEasy]

I haven't enjoyed 40k since 6th edition, after flying units and super heavies became a normal part of the game. 7th - 9th ed were definitely not my cup of tea. So I'm watching the 10th Ed previews closely in the hopes of giving it another chance: I have nearly 15 years of accumulated Eldar and Dark Eldar bitz for that special project that I eventually want to see on the table.

 

I'm not the first to say this, but the way GW drags out their info makes me less excited: I think they call this hype burnout. Corvus Belli are unfortunately the same in their delivery. It's informative, but drawn out in a way that actually becomes less informative and makes you want to just say "just give me the rules already, I'm getting frustrated!"

 

Granted, there will be someone who says "be grateful you get anything: back in my day you got one article in White Dwarf the month before IF you bought it!" That was my generation too, but I'd actually prefer that method of delivery.

 

 

[MegaVolt87]

Fixed unit loadouts and kit design becoming less conversion friendly, then rules becoming fixed by the exact box contents 1:1 I think has done pre-existing damage to myself and others in the playerbase, the rules are just more fuel to the fire. If "my dudes" no longer feel like that due to fixed loadouts and new kit design, thats already putting more distance between re-investing into a new edition of 40k, or any warhammer system really. The narrative creatives, converters etc seem to have moved on to HH, as there you can still express yourself with "your dudes" for the moment. 

 

The playerbase is merely reflecting back what GW is projecting. People have a right to be upset and are justified. Having a new codex for less than a year of a new edition, a codex that is nerfed exactly three months after release (funny how its nerfed just after GW's quarterly company reporting, must be a coincidence- Tyranids, big FAQ for votaan was as extensive as a 3 month FAQ in 9th ed). We can also be confident, not every codex will release on 10th launch or let alone even in the same year. There are 26 codexes for 40k, and we will see x9 by spring 2024 for 10th ed. Even if they release another x5 codexes in summer 2024, 12* codexes will still be using index rules. Best case, thats done in x6 months but I think its going to take at least 8 months to see the last x12* codexes. This is going to be causing problems the entire edition as we get the combo of codex creep and resentment of still being without a codex for a good portion of the edition. New rules will sell the edition well enough, new units can be added later will still make a profit down the line. GW's insistence on edition launch of new faction units at release and staggered codex release VS having all codexes out at launch and new units later in campaign supplements has been killing 40k for years now.

 

40k feels like fast fashion, very throw away and immature, in that it doesn't have a consistent identity of what it wants to be anymore. This has made many upset, jaded and questioning if its all worth carrying on with. A new 40k edition of the game should not be triggering this from the community. GW needs to change, and maybe they are with their licencing, product diversification away from tabletop and endeavours in other area's.... 

Edited May 22, 2023 by MegaVolt87
codex count 26 is 9+5=14, 26-14=12 not 11 for roadmap projection theory.

[Slat3]

I was, but the big leak was a little disheartening for psykers and psychic armies. This is assuming missing pages don’t address reducing a rather large component of 9e into “psychic units do psychic attacks and psychic means psychic and provides no direct benefits”. TSons and GK indexes can fix it for those respective factions, but sounds like random psykers deployed with non-psychic factions will no longer be the force multipliers they once were.

[Interrogator Stobz]

On the purchase front: So far this year I have missed out on the Lion, his Novel, and the Kill Team box. I fully expect to miss out on anything in Leviathan. I only wanted the books and Nids FWIW.

 

As to the leaks: They are taking far too long, or giving out too much, or seem to be trying to give us surity over excitement. Something is just not right about it.

As mentioned above sometimes less is more, I preferred just knowing when it will arrive in a WD and not the content or rules... then waiting a month of so.

 

As to the rules:  They seem good so far, (apart from Combi Weapons (TBC OFC)). But really are Meh as they add nothing exciting to the mix. I would have loved to have seen alternating actions or a decent shake up of core mechanics, but at least the enlargement of Strength and Toughness values is interesting enough.

Now, will it be balanced? Now we can be very sure there will be bloat once codex and campaign books arrive, will they be constantly fixing imbalance or just adding bloat...

 

As to the simplified layout: Good so far, I like the new datasheet concept (although some weapons will be on a Faction/Detachment sheet so that's already broken).

Also once new units arrive via codex and campaign books, how will new datasheets be introduced? Book only? Cards individually or in huge expensive sets? Decent access electronic versions??? And will that change throughout the Edition so we don't know what to expect codex to codex, campaignto campaign ???

And as they now seem to regularly produce less than demand, will luck or EBay be the only way to play them?

 

The main thing for me though, is will I need to treat 40k as a full time job in order to play effectively when I only play about once a month?

 

The more they drag it out the more questions I ask myself, the more questions I ask myself the less engaged I get.....

 

I don't appear alone lolz.

 

Edited May 22, 2023 by Interrogator Stobz
Sp.

[Antarius]

23 minutes ago, Interrogator Stobz said:

The main thing for me though, is will I need to treat 40k as a full time job in order to play effectively when I only play about once a month?

This really is the heart of the problem, isn't it?

Also, something I've thought about but haven't really seen anyone talk about, when it comes to the whole "mental load" thing, is that back in earlier editions there were way fewer factions to keep track of, which might contribute to the feeling of being overwhelmed.
I mean, back in 4th or 5th edition, we'd have been very happy if they came out with balance updates and FAQs to keep codexes (roughly) in line with each other. Today I feel like putting out balance updates, while a commendable initiative, contributes to my feeling of "I simply can't keep up with this pace anymore".

[Xenith]

2 hours ago, Interrogator Stobz said:

The main thing for me though, is will I need to treat 40k as a full time job in order to play effectively when I only play about once a month?

 

 

As above - I have already said this in various guises in other places, but 9th ed 40k was designed by video games designers, and people whose full time job is 40k, with playtest feedback from people whose full time job is 40k (event runners, large FLGS owners, influencers). It got too much for the normies. While the video game style 'seasons' offer quick balance patches...they obviously didn't stop to think if they would work in a F2F game as opposed to a digital environment where stuff like new rules and tweaks are applied automatically. 

 

Anyway, this is getting OT. I am optimistic for 10th, but with the same people in the same places, even with the "one in, one out" philosophy, if thy put one in and take one out every 3 months, it's still going to be a mess. 

On 5/20/2023 at 2:09 PM, Jalleo said:

I want to learn the game. I started in late 8th. I found it frustrating to learn. I think 10th with the datacards will help me a lot.

 

The best way to learn is to get someone to show you how to play, montessori style. The game at it's core isn't difficult - move, roll dice, remove models, but if you start with the rulebook you'll probably get lost.

 

Same with chess - if you start with a "how to play chess" book, you'll probably be reading 400 pages of advanced tactics for what is in actuality, a game with simple mechanics. 

[2PlusEasy]

1 hour ago, Antarius said:

This really is the heart of the problem, isn't it?

Also, something I've thought about but haven't really seen anyone talk about, when it comes to the whole "mental load" thing, is that back in earlier editions there were way fewer factions to keep track of, which might contribute to the feeling of being overwhelmed.
I mean, back in 4th or 5th edition, we'd have been very happy if they came out with balance updates and FAQs to keep codexes (roughly) in line with each other. Today I feel like putting out balance updates, while a commendable initiative, contributes to my feeling of "I simply can't keep up with this pace anymore".

 

Solid agreement with everything you've said here: as someone who plays other gaming systems, 40k is very hard to keep track of casually unless you're actively playing it every week.

 

I feel they handle AoS significantly better then 40k in that regard, and (it seems it's an unpopular opinion) I hope they port alot of that over to 10e 40k.

[appiah4]

As a game, I've lost all hype for 40K a long time ago. As far as I'm concerned the game has consistently gone downhill from 5E onwards, and I've lost totally lost the desire to even learn the rules around 7E when it became a real mess.  Then around 8E the fluff to a nosedive and got even worse than the rules.  These days I just look at new box set releases and when I see units I like I go to bitz sites that part them out and grab a few, paint them and be done. 

Edited May 22, 2023 by appiah4

[Redcomet]

I haven’t read any of the previews or the leaked rules. I have found that not getting caught up in GW’s hype machine helps me  a lot. Keeps me excited to open the box and experience everything for myself. 

[Valkyrion]

I've decided to take the party line from back in the day more seriously - miniatures company first, gaming company second. It's quite liberating, mentally, when you can segue the new shiny toys into whatever ruleset you wish to use. 

Me and mine, for instance, used HH2.0 to play out Eldar vs Grey Knights. We used the rules as written, more or less, but invented our own datasheets collaboratively. The end result was a narrow Eldar victory, which to our mind is a success, but he got to use his new Avatar and Dark Reaper models that would otherwise simply never be used again because of what 9th ed had become. 

We've decided that we won't play 10th but will make new rules ourselves for the models we wish to use as and when they are released using HH2.0 as a base, and we have secure knowledge that for the next 50 years we are going to be playing the same core game without a three-yearly upheaval. 

 

Of course, you need a group that will be happy to do something like this, and if you don't have such a group then I sympathise. 

[Xenith]

32 minutes ago, Valkyrion said:

 

Me and mine, for instance, used HH2.0 to play out Eldar vs Grey Knights.

 

Why not just get a 5th edition rulebook and codexes and go from there? It'll save a lot of "what does this do" ing and making up your own datasheets etc. HH2.0 is based entirely on that version of the 40k rules anyway, so it'll be a similar experience, though Eldar were pretty nasty in 5/6th ed. 

[Valkyrion]

37 minutes ago, Xenith said:

 

Why not just get a 5th edition rulebook and codexes and go from there? It'll save a lot of "what does this do" ing and making up your own datasheets etc. HH2.0 is based entirely on that version of the 40k rules anyway, so it'll be a similar experience, though Eldar were pretty nasty in 5/6th ed. 

 

Basically because there aren't 5th ed rules for everything. Eldar and GK are covered, but Skorpekh Destroyers aren't, or the new Neurotyrant and so on.

Our way lets us add the new toys whilst incorporating new rules such as reactions, and actually leaves us less 'gotcha' moments than using an outdated codex rule interaction we hadn't necessarily considered.

[Emperor Ming]

My enthusiasm has definitely died down, ill stay play 10th

 

But there's just some obvious candidates for the balance dataslates and the edition hasn't started yet