Anyone less excited for 10th than they were?

[phandaal]

2 hours ago, Doghouse said:

I think ultimately the fate of 10th will be we'll get the same as with 9th starting off modestly then have it eventually collapse under it's own weight and then sell us 11th. 

 

I want to believe they will keep it trim but have little faith in them doing so.

 

We can already see shades of this in some of the faction showcases. "rEdUcInG lEtHaLiTy" turned into rerolls out the wazoo, Lethal Hits, Devastating Wounds, and all kinds of special rules to help you delete your opponent's models from existence.

 

At the end of the day, what Games Workshop says and what Games Workshop does are two very different things. The new mission format looks fun, and things do seem like they will play out faster. Those two things would be a big win over 9th edition for me.

[Doctor Perils]

30 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

We can already see shades of this in some of the faction showcases. "rEdUcInG lEtHaLiTy" turned into rerolls out the wazoo, Lethal Hits, Devastating Wounds, and all kinds of special rules to help you delete your opponent's models from existence.

 

At the end of the day, what Games Workshop says and what Games Workshop does are two very different things. The new mission format looks fun, and things do seem like they will play out faster. Those two things would be a big win over 9th edition for me.

The faction focuses aren't enough to say that with certainty - the Warcom writers are obviously picking the rules they think are more "powerful", as they've always done, as it helps sell people some of those models. Until we see full army lists and try it out on the table, we can't say for sure

[Gederas]

2 hours ago, Doctor Perils said:

The faction focuses aren't enough to say that with certainty - the Warcom writers are obviously picking the rules they think are more "powerful", as they've always done, as it helps sell people some of those models. Until we see full army lists and try it out on the table, we can't say for sure

Bingo. WarCom are, at the end of the day, salespeople for GW

[phandaal]

2 hours ago, Doctor Perils said:

The faction focuses aren't enough to say that with certainty - the Warcom writers are obviously picking the rules they think are more "powerful", as they've always done, as it helps sell people some of those models. Until we see full army lists and try it out on the table, we can't say for sure

 

Well, yeah. That is why I did not say it is certain. But we have been through this story before, and heard the same excuses before, and I will believe what I see rather than what they say.

 

In any case, I am looking forward to trying out the new missions and hoping that actually playing the game is a little bit more streamlined. If we get that much, it is a win for me.

[WrathOfTheLion]

2 hours ago, phandaal said:

 

We can already see shades of this in some of the faction showcases. "rEdUcInG lEtHaLiTy" turned into rerolls out the wazoo, Lethal Hits, Devastating Wounds, and all kinds of special rules to help you delete your opponent's models from existence.

 

At the end of the day, what Games Workshop says and what Games Workshop does are two very different things. The new mission format looks fun, and things do seem like they will play out faster. Those two things would be a big win over 9th edition for me.

Reducing lethality did not mean removing it. I see a few things looking around. The first is that ignores invulns, etc. are gone. The second is that Devastating wounds/mortal wounds are in. From playing Sigmar, mortal wounds from mechanisms like this are surprisingly more predictable. With little calculation, you can determine how many MWs will be driven by an application of Devastating Wounds to a weapon profile.

 

It very well may be the case, as it always will likely be, that it gets out of hand. I do see what/why they're doing what they're doing there, even if it seems somewhat counterintuitive to how 9E worked.

[phandaal]

3 minutes ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

Reducing lethality did not mean removing it. I see a few things looking around. The first is that ignores invulns, etc. are gone. The second is that Devastating wounds/mortal wounds are in. From playing Sigmar, mortal wounds from mechanisms like this are surprisingly more predictable. With little calculation, you can determine how many MWs will be driven by an application of Devastating Wounds to a weapon profile.

 

It very well may be the case, as it always will likely be, that it gets out of hand. I do see what/why they're doing what they're doing there, even if it seems somewhat counterintuitive to how 9E worked.

 

Personally, I am going to temper my expectations and look forward to the other positive aspects of what we have seen so far.

 

If my units and my opponent's units get vaporized a little bit slower in the new edition, that will be a pleasant and welcome surprise.

[WrathOfTheLion]

19 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

Personally, I am going to temper my expectations and look forward to the other positive aspects of what we have seen so far.

 

If my units and my opponent's units get vaporized a little bit slower in the new edition, that will be a pleasant and welcome surprise.

Oh, absolutely. I can see what they intend and I can see certain mechanics that seem to achieve some of that, but everything's in a vacuum until we play it.

[ZeroWolf]

This is why it'll be interesting to see the free battle report on Wednesday, seeing how the 2000pt game goes down.

[Arkangilos]

On 5/18/2023 at 5:41 AM, Vermintide said:

, or else forever be a filthy casual.

To be honest, this game is as originally made for us filthy casuals :p

[Xenith]

=][= Guilty of being OT myself, but please keep to the topic at hand, your enthusiasm (or lack thereof) for 10th edition 40k, not the new reanimation protocols. =][=

=][=  I've split the [good and interesting] discussion on RP into it's own topic in the Necron section=][=

 

 

 

Edited May 31, 2023 by Xenith

[ThePenitentOne]

Yep.

 

Today's Imperial Agent faction focus did me in. I was holding out and maintaining my positivity despite all the slings and arrows that came my way. But there's no excuse for not giving Agents at least an actual Index.

 

10th can rot. 

[Captain Idaho]

You have my sympathies. It's never nice when you faction gets reduced to generic or support elements.

Edited May 31, 2023 by Captain Idaho

[Emperor Ming]

Yeah, the inq getting another disappointing mediocre mish mash update is very disheartening

[Orange Knight]

I don't think that Imperial Agents or Inquisition have really been a viable faction for a while now. I feel the Inquisition was best handled when they had a strong presence in the Grey Knights codex back in 5th, but GW hasn't really supported them well or known what to do with them for a few editions now.

 

In my opinion the 3 separate major branches of Inquisitors (and the various infantry units) need to be dispersed across the main factions most closely associated with them. Ordo Xenos with the Deathwatch, Ordo Malleus with the Grey Knights, and Ordo Hereticus with the Sisters of Battle.

 

Single Inquisitors and the various Assassins should still be available as optional characters for all Imperium Armies.

[Evil Eye]

The biggest issue with Inquisitors being done properly by GW is their current "no model no rules" policy, which doesn't really work with individuals with as varied wargear and such as Inquisitors. If GW were to drop that ridiculous stance, things would be different.

 

I still feel like most Inquisitorial armies can be represented pretty well with existing armies (Marines, Guard etc) with an Inquisitor and his goons attached as allies.

[Blindhamster]

4 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

I still feel like most Inquisitorial armies can be represented pretty well with existing armies (Marines, Guard etc) with an Inquisitor and his goons attached as allies.

Per the lore, that is precisely what most inquisitorial “armies” are. They shouldn’t have been armies in the first place imo, just characters and retinues that can be taken in or with any other imperial army.

 

perhaps with some nod to the fact that deathwatch, grey knights and sisters of battle more or less end up as militant arms of some of the main ordos

[ThePenitentOne]

I'm going to say this again, all in caps this time so you get it:

 

NOT ALL GAMES ARE 2K GAMES, AND THE INQUISITON AND AGENTS IN GENERAL NEED AN ACTUAL ARMY LIST TO BUILD 500 POINT - 1K ARMIES.

AGENTS ARE EXCELLENT IN CRUSADE AND NARRATIVE PLAY, BUT THEY NEED AN ACTUAL ARMY LIST TO DO THAT.

 

FOR THE LOVE OF THE EMPEROR, PLEASE STOP ASSUMING THAT EVERY RULE MUST BE DESIGNED EXCLUSIVELY FOR 2K COMPETITIVE PLAY.

 

I suspect that some of you aren't there yet, so let's try again:

 

NOT ALL GAMES ARE 2K GAMES, AND THE INQUISITON AND AGENTS IN GENERAL NEED AN ACTUAL ARMY LIST TO BUILD 500 POINT - 1K ARMIES.

AGENTS ARE EXCELLENT IN CRUSADE AND NARRATIVE PLAY, BUT THEY NEED AN ACTUAL ARMY LIST TO DO THAT.

 

FOR THE LOVE OF THE EMPEROR, PLEASE STOP ASSUMING THAT EVERY RULE MUST BE DESIGNED EXCLUSIVELY FOR 2K COMPETITIVE PLAY.

 

After yesterday's disappointment, I have posted in at least 3 places how easy it would be for GW to get this right. I don't even care if the Army rules were Crusade only- but then I see that as selfish, because I'm sure there are players who prefer matched that also want to field these armies. Sorry about the snark, but I get really, really sick of being told the thing I love the most about the game shouldn't exist.

 

[TheMawr]

@ThePenitentOne for your own sake, you really need to find a way to calm down a bit.. and I mean this truelly not offensive/assertive, but the last few days Im fearing you might get a heart attack XD

 

Im in an "easy" position, my armies of choice since 2nd edition never truelly existed ( first an exodites focus, later corsairs, then ynnari since 7th, thinking I finally had a proper supported army ;), I also like a bit of chaos soup.. but just a few marines for flavor, I prefer the mutant and mortal side... none of wich have been deeply catered for, so a large part of my 40k hobby is homebrewing.) so I cant miss anything that wasnt truelly there to begin with.

 

And yeah.. the Inquisition does have standing armies, one of wich seems to be your main army.. and I do think its incredibly silly that they didnt do what they apparently can do for chaos; repeat but specific profiles for the same units. Sure if an Ordo hereticus Inquisitor would be part of the sisters of battle codex, that still doesnt represent the rare instances were such an inquisitor would recruit the Viva Hispania chapter of spacemarines.. but imho thats the territory of homebrewing. ( but again, an opinion based on my own hobby experience.)

 

 

As for the topic itself Im starting to feel the drag of the dripfeed, and solo focus on the initial release boiling excitement down... it doesnt help that it seems like ages (it isnt) since we have seen new miniatures, And also that the focus is all on the initial box, summer just started and we are over halfway trough the roadmaps. Wich makes me wonder if we have 9 weeks of the same hypemachine with nothing new to show ahead of us. Luckily.. festival season starts next week, so probably by the time I have time to really care about 40k again its time for the next seasons roadmap :)

 

 

 

 

[gaurdian31]

Really gutted by the "Horus Heresy: Legends"  taking away all the Forgeworld demon engines. It makes me a lot less excited.

[Arkangilos]

6 hours ago, ThePenitentOne said:

NOT ALL GAMES ARE 2K GAMES, AND THE INQUISITON AND AGENTS IN GENERAL NEED AN ACTUAL ARMY LIST TO BUILD 500 POINT - 1K ARMIES.

Alright but hear me out: you can do that.

 

Incursion (the smallest one), means you can take one character (inquisitor), and one retinue unit.

 

The Imperial Guard is the faction you’d take for a proper Inquisitorial Army. You can fill out your force with Scions (Inquisitorial Storm Troopers), a Breacher Unit, and an Inquisitor. This represents you boarding an enemy ship.

 

Likewise, let’s say you are a rogue trader: Breacher Squads are your more elite boarding units, conscripts are your ratings, regular men are your regular armsmen, etc. 

 

500 point games literally mean you’ll be able to accurately assemble a proper naval boarding crew, a proper elite inquisitorial storm trooper unit, etc. 

 

Want an Ordo xenos 500 point inquisitorial game? Death Watch with an inquisitor. Ordo Malleus? Grey Knights. Ordo Hereticus? Sister of Battle. Normal men? IG.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Arkangilos

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

7 hours ago, Evil Eye said:

The biggest issue with Inquisitors being done properly by GW is their current "no model no rules" policy, which doesn't really work with individuals with as varied wargear and such as Inquisitors. If GW were to drop that ridiculous stance, things would be different.

 

I still feel like most Inquisitorial armies can be represented pretty well with existing armies (Marines, Guard etc) with an Inquisitor and his goons attached as allies.

Yep that last bit is exactly the problem with the concept of an inquisition faction.

death watch are already an inquisition marine faction, and anything else would just be a variation of guard/SoB/mechanicus.

Scions/stormtroopers have always or almost always been the backbone of the inquisition’s forces and they’re in the guard dex.

personally I wouldn’t be upset if they got split off to the inquisition only I wouldn’t be upset 

[Captain Idaho]

So GW have sent to more than half my army to Legends.

 

 

Cheers GW. You've basically ruined my Ultramarines army for 40K.

[Starlight_Wolf]

Honestly I was pretty excited for 10th only find today that my detachment rules only work if X character meets Y criteria and then you get benefit Z, when every other marine faction gets them off the bat. (Referring to the Space Wolf rules)

 

I want to wait to see the full rules and how everything shakes up, but honestly I don't see the army I've had since 2011 being playable properly until the codex lands. It may sound like sour grapes, and I get that, being one of many marine factions who are showered with releases and all the new toys, but when more or less every other army has their army rule turned on from the start and yours has to fight to get some of those same army rules activated and have no guarantee that they will even come into play? 

 

If it is that way, I do have Horus Heresy to fall back on, just would be immensely bummed out of after all this hype to sit out the majority of an edition until the codex drops or unless an FAQ comes out like the last time GW went and screwed up sagas...

[Blindhamster]

im sad about how blood angels have panned out, but still overall looking forward to the changes of the edition

[Doghouse]

The more I think about it the more things become more apparent to me as to why I think my apathy towards this edition grows. I think for me it could be a combination of so many army boxes/army starter sets and balances and FAQs of late being hyped all the time up till now. This doesn't feel special because every other week something special is being pushed or updated or changed or FOMO'd. I genuinely think that is what it is for me, this edition already feels lost amongst every other fanfare announcement of the week. It's sad really.