Anyone less excited for 10th than they were?

[Sothalor]

"When everything is hype, nothing is"?

[madlibrarian]

I’m a sourpuss about the legends units. So many daemon engines and CSM options shut down. Laziness. Thoroughly unexcited for the new edition now tbh.

[The Spitehorde]

I'm not even sure I can reach the heady heights of unexcited. GW have screwed me over twice in the last few months (first the thin unit choices in the WE 'dex, now the Legends debacle), so my mindset is very much one of what else can they mess up? Let's face it, a new edition is the perfect opportunity to make a monumental pigs ear of things. 

[Captain Idaho]

I was coming to terms with the Kratos and Contemptors going to Legends, then I read that my Relic Terminators are too and that was it.

 

I'm so gutted to lose so many units I've lovingly painted and repainted with the new techniques I've improved upon in my personal journey.

 

In my last game of 9th, I'm losing over half the army to Legends now.

[ThePenitentOne]

11 hours ago, TheMawr said:

@ThePenitentOne for your own sake, you really need to find a way to calm down a bit.. and I mean this truelly not offensive/assertive, but the last few days Im fearing you might get a heart attack XD

 

 

Yeah, you know what? You're not wrong.

 

As an Exodite Player, have you seen the Wargames Exclusive Exodite army? They've got an Exodite Avatart model that's just beautiful, plus dino riders and other bespoke units. You have to scroll down a bit before you get to the Exodites... But their Warp Spiders are pretty fly too.

 

I'm done complaining about Inquisition- like I said in other threads, I'm just going to make a good 9th ed Agents book myself.

 

I came back here today to mention that I'm less happy with 10th than I was yesterday, because as I suspected, loyalist space marines have anywhere from 2-6 detachment choices at launch while the rest of us have one until our dexes drop. To add insult to injury, despite this wealth of options at launch, Marines are still getting first Dex privelage, and of course, the first bespoke WD content as well.

 

The Titan preview tomorrow can't possibly make me angry though, so that's one good thing.

[Noserenda]

Honestly i kinda laughed at this topic when it launched but the previews have really not helped. 

I can deal with a less than ideal system when it all hangs together narratively in my head at least (I played a lot of 6th and that really sucked) but it feels like they are really abandoning narrative verisimilitude in favour of the impossible goal of balance and tournament style in every way to play and that feels bad. 

Im sure Leviathan will sell a gazillion copies but im really not feeling it right now, first 40k box since 40k boxes began that i havent been driven to get my grubby bits on the second i could.

[Interrogator Stobz]

With this Legends debacle I couldn't be less excited if I tried now.

 

I have so many thousands of points of paperweights the game part of this hobby has just today become irrelevant to me.

 

They literally make new plastic versions of so many units then bench them.

 

Here's an emoji I haven't used in over a decade:     this.

[ShibeKing]

Disappointed by the announcement on 30k vehicles and dreads as I've grown a lot more fond of the 30k tanks, flyers, and marines compared to the 40k offerings. I know Legends means I can still bring them, but the lack of rules updates is never good news.

 

Will still play some games as Eldar and Dark Eldar, but I think I should find some different wargames to focus on since my frustration with GW is growing. Don't want to buy anymore HH vehicles if it means I'm helping GW validate this Legends decision.

[Helias_Tancred]

Responding to their news today specifically as primarily a space marine Blood Angels player who doesn't do tournaments or very competitive gameplay.

 

I think it's a bummer that I can't use my two legion specific (DA & BA) dual lascannon contemptor dreadnoughts with my 40k Dark Angels or Blood Angels armies. But I'm not upset about their decision, I'm fine with it. I understand GW's logic behind their decision.

 

I do think it's crappy for 40k players that have been buying up the new Horus Heresy vehicle line thinking they can run it in 40k like in past editions, or current FW models for their 40k faction such as some CSM stuff. Its like "Hey why not give them their money back?'

 

As for the divergent marine chapter rules showcased today, I'm okay with it. For BA the additional attack is great and the +1 to STR on the charge is more realistic for who we are; savage killers in melee ... against enemy infantry. Our scouts having an easier time wounding an imperial knight with personal combat weapons (knives) was always ridiculous to me. Ultimately I will hold off final judgement until the new rules are out and I've played a few games.

 

I still remain happily optimistic on 10th edition. 

 

Edited June 2, 2023 by Eilio Tiberius

[Interrogator Stobz]

My whole group always plays Comp rules.

I just asked and they won't change the no Legends policy.

 

I need better friends. 

[Helias_Tancred]

10 minutes ago, Interrogator Stobz said:

My whole group always plays Comp rules.

I just asked and they won't change the no Legends policy.

 

I need better friends. 

 

lol ... I've learned that I have the most fun playing with a close circle of friends. Ultimately we've been pretty flexible on things, with fun being the main pursuit. You're welcome to join us :)

 

We have a comfy basement, big antique wood table, 6x4 well painted realm of battle board, various battle mats, lots of well painted terrain, a great fridge (beers, colas, juices), bar stools, recliners, solid wi-fi, an iMac at the ready, and a Jack Russell Terrier that will console you when you lose, etc. lol. 

 

Edited June 2, 2023 by Eilio Tiberius

[Interrogator Stobz]

Sounds perfect, thanks heaps.

 

Now all I need is a teleportation device.

[madlibrarian]

Remember guys, make sure you email your thoughts to GW customer service email address. That’s the way this’ll change.

[appiah4]

9 hours ago, Noserenda said:

Honestly i kinda laughed at this topic when it launched but the previews have really not helped. 

I can deal with a less than ideal system when it all hangs together narratively in my head at least (I played a lot of 6th and that really sucked) but it feels like they are really abandoning narrative verisimilitude in favour of the impossible goal of balance and tournament style in every way to play and that feels bad. 

Im sure Leviathan will sell a gazillion copies but im really not feeling it right now, first 40k box since 40k boxes began that i havent been driven to get my grubby bits on the second i could.

 

Emphasis mine; that goal is not impossible.  It's just impossible for the designers at GW because Warhammer is a miniature release treadmill not an actual game.  It always was, it always will be.  That is why it always sucked to some extent, but now sucks because they have a whole line of oldmarines to invalidate and a whole line of primaris to sell, somehow.

Edited June 2, 2023 by Xenith
unnecessary

[Dam13n]

As someone that has literally no interest in official events and tournaments, I really couldn't care less about those restrictions.  I'm actually rather relieved that those units are going to get rules, even if they are just "Legends" datasheets.

 

Even then, there's no reason why you couldn't use appropriate proxy rules for units, so long as it's clear what is being used as what.

 

@Interrogator Stobz let me know when you get that teleporter working.  Can you imagine the shock (and horror) of the Warhammer World staff when the entire B&C mod team (and Cedos) suddenly materialised in the middle of the gaming hall one weekend.

[Prot]

I feel like this is going to be a very divisive topic.

 

Looking forward or not to the new edition is going to be hugely dependent on what we all get out of the game. So all I can do is simplify my own expectations:

 

1. I found the last Index Reset of the game to be a good thing. Yes some factions get a running start, many get hammered down by FAQ's, but largely I found in the past it is a nice and welcome way to play the game for about 6-12 months.

 

2. Competitively. Just my opinion, the game was written into a corner. This was the only way out.. just again, my opinion. I hated what specific faction secondaries did to competitive play. This seems to have changed/evolved significantly. I'm looking forward to trying it out.

 

3. A bolter will hurt. Yes these are the golden days. Welcome them. A bolter may kill something for the next 3-6 months.

 

4. New Codexes! I honestly love this stuff. I can't afford all the codexes anymore, but I read/buy what I can afford... and with great codexes comes great power creep, but what a fun ride it is getting there.

 

6. New ways to play old models, and new models. This is just a bi product of it. Sure some stuff inevitably doesn't work anymore, but I do enjoy using stuff that just outright stunk in previous editions. (/revs the landraider up for a drive around the block).

 

There is good/bad with every edition. I do feel bad that some people will get pinched out because of what happens to their faction. I know we all get something different from the game, and I hope you find a reason to give it a shot even if you're not looking forward to it. The community is (IMHO) one of the best reasons I continue  at the end of the day. 

[Djangomatic82]

I initially liked some of the design choices gw were showing off for 10e, weapon consolidation is a good thing, increasing the range of toughness is a good thing, supposedly limiting the amount of rerolls would be a good thing. 

With the reveal of terminator rescale and sternguard I was pretty hyped.

But as the faction focuses have released, I became less confident in 10e. With the final showcase having been revealed, I am comfortable saying that I do not like what I am seeing in regards to faction rules and a few other things.

As a primarily Blood Angels player, I'm not at all interested in the detachment rule or having access to Oath of Moment.

Where that leaves me is kinda stranded. I didn't build all +/- 20'000 points of this army over the last 7 years because I thought I could just swap to ultra marine, dark angel or whatever FotM marine rules there are. I fell in love with and enjoy playing a fast moving, hard hitting melee army.

not red marines.

I think I'm just gonna hunker down and skip this edition, maybe buy the end and the Death Vol.2 when it drops, but not much else.

 

[Guzzlrr]

I think with this reset all factions have lost something, if the Greybeards among us cast your minds back to 8th when they first dropped indexes factions lost ALOT of flavour and some people look back to that period of 40k to be the most balanced, although it will always be the edition they took everything i had ever wanted as a chaos player away from me after a month lul

 

So while having a critical eye is perhaps warranted this is really only the Start point for 10th, the reset. i think if the codex's begin to drop and there (if any) significant issues aren't addressed then i think that would be the point to be a bit upset. but for now I'm cautiously optimistic because realistically who knows what's coming. Dg might actually get Devastators new models and further detachments would flesh out factions a lil more not tom mention anything else they will inevitably add in to the new codex's.

 

  so im looking forward to 10th

 

 

[Marshal Rohr]

The previews have been progressively killing any remaining buzz I had. I don’t really know what they want this game to be anymore. It needs to be so easy a teen can pick up a combat patrol and start playing, but so tight and balanced it can be played competitively? By doing both they killed any kind personality or customization you could give your army. It feels like they want this to be a video game in model form. You can play co-op or campaign with or against a friend or you jump into multiplayer (comp) where everything is balls to the wall from the jump. 
 

This isn’t really wargaming anymore. It’s got the dna but it’s so different it might as well be a board game. 

[Rain]

33 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

 It feels like they want this to be a video game in model form. You can play co-op or campaign with or against a friend or you jump into multiplayer (comp) where everything is balls to the wall from the jump. 

 

This is exactly what they want it to be. They see the success of "games as a service" in video gaming, and constant churn and burn of COD seasons and the like, and they want a piece of the action. The problem is that in a video game, the game server updates all of the "rules" for all of the players in the background, and also does all of the calculations to make the game work. Players don't need to know how the game calculates hits, or misses, or movement, or memorize how much ammo their current gun has, the game does that all in the background. Players also don't need to know that X gun got updated to do 10% more damage last month. The game is patched automatically, and patches apply to everyone equally with or without player knowledge.

 

This model doesn't really work in a tabletop game where there is no server that automatically "knows" and updates the rules, and where players need to know the mechanics of how units move, and shoot, etc. Players need to keep track of command points, and pain tokens, and other tokens physically, as there is no server to count that automatically and read out a number, automatically deducting points as abilities are used. Players need to buy new books, and errata, and know if their opponent's army got errata'd, all individually, because there is no server to do this all behind the scenes.

 

This should all be kind of obvious, but the important thing to realize about many large companies is that the decision makers tend to not actually use the products, and don't understand why anyone would.  This is especially true for niche products like wargaming models produced by a publicly traded company. The people running the company went to school to be execs, not game designers, and they probably did not choose to work in tabletop gaming. It was just the best offer that they could get given their education, internships, and connections. I once asked someone studying to be a lawyer what kind of lawyer they wanted to be, and they replied "the employed kind." They weren't wrong or unique in their thinking. Point being, most of the people making high level decisions about the structure of the game have never actually gamed, and think that painting toy soldiers is for children, weirdos, and :cuss:; but the comp package was good relative to their other options, so they took the job. Now they have to somehow please these very loud and opinionated people who they don't understand, and kind of look down upon. 

 

 

[Interrogator Stobz]

Exactly that^^

That is the bloat; not Factions having plenty of unit options instead of Legends and removal, not Armies having minimal special rule options instead of plenty of flavour, not units having mono builds instead of plenty of weapon options.

 

Good streamlining keeps the good stuff and makes it easy to use, 10th is looking like a lazy and poorly lead project.

[Arkhanist]

What they've done to DG makes me extremely glad it's not my primary army. They're decent at short range and in melee, but dog slow and far more fragile now, so they just wither to anything with guns (we've seen most of the new datasheets in the stream). Worse, pretty much all their anti-tank came from heresy units (dreads, tanks) which just got yanked away. They've got pretty much nothing left that can take on T10 targets or higher.

 

I do have a bunch of plague marines and other DG stuff still in boxes in my shame mountain. I sure as hell ain't going to bother painting it for 40k now. I guess I could leave it to moulder for a few years, or maybe do a siege of terra heresy army with it to sit on a shelf (no HH players locally), but at the moment I'm really tempted to just flog it all on ebay at a loss and forget I ever owned them.

[The Spitehorde]

Having just watched the Auspex Tactics vid on DG I completely agree with you.  Heck, DG are supposed to be as tough as old boots. An army you're supposed to face with the full knowledge that grinding them down is hard work. That's out the window now. Great work GW, great work 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[2PlusEasy]

I just read the core rules. They're not bad. Partly the reason they're not bad is because they're not new: they took elements of old 40k, AoS and Necromunda and mashed them together. "Simplified, not simple" is still 60 pages long ironically.

 

However, I've been down this road before. The core rules for 6th, 7th and 8th edition weren't bad either: it was what came after the core rules that became the problem. And I know GW aren't going to change their business methods.

 

So I think for me, I'm pretty happy continuing what I'm doing outside of the GW gaming sphere until I observe that 40k is back on track and a genuinely enjoyable gaming experience. Onepagerules and Stargrave are good, substantially cheaper alternatives that suits my needs just fine until then.

[Marshal Reinhard]

The whole HH gone to legends thing is a strange one. On paper it shouldn't matter except at tournaments, yet it apparently does matter in a lot of places and groups.

 

I feel like a dodged a bullet in a sense, as I had a pretty big classic marine army whose vehicle armory pretty much came entirely out of the HH catalogue. We're talking 6 contemptors, 1 leviathan, 1 deredeo, 2 spartans, 2 sicarans, a glaive (that i was always prepared to field as fellblade as im not sure it ever had 40k rules) and a fire raptor. Sold it all a few years ago, but I can imagine i would not have felt good about it all going to legends, had i still had them.

 

Even though it should not matter to me as I mainly collect and paint rarely play and never at a tournament, it still affects you perception of them, there's a hit to perceived value if they go listed as banned from the "fairest form of play". So I have a lot of sympathy for anyone who'd gotten items from the FW catalogue mainly for their 40k armies rather than 30k one.

 

I had been looking at the steadily releasing plastic HH heresy armory with renewed interest, but even thats taken a hit now.

 

Not even sure if this qualifies as a less excited about 10th post, but it is a less excited about the prospects of buying certain models in 10th.