Sternguard and Combi-Weapons

[CCE1981]

18 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

Because overcharged plasma is going to be a lot more dangerous to the user in 10th edition.

 

Hazardous weapons now make a separate roll to overheat when they fire. This is a significant change, because it is no longer based on the Hit roll, abilities to reroll Hits do not make Hazardous weapons safer. You have a flat 1-in-6 chance of killing the shooter with an overcharged weapon now. Combi-weapons don't have that risk. Also plasma is now going to need 5s to would vehicles making it a lot less appealing as a back-up anti-tank solution. Lastly, we do not know about prices. In 9th edition, Hellblasters were 50% more than Sternguard.

 

So you can still take Hellblasters if you like. But they will be more likely to kill themselves when over-charging, more expensive and less of an all-round option than they were in 9th.

I disagree, one shot Plasma Weapons sure.  However multi-shot plasma weapons will be safer, a Plasma Gun or, assuming it still has blast, the Plasma Cannon will be a lot safer, you don't roll for each shot you only roll once for firing the weapon.  Sure it is a bit harder to re-roll, you still have the CP re-roll to hopefully stop a critical roll.

 

As for the combi-weapon debate, they feel like how I feel about flamers.  One is useless and a ton will be incredible.

[Medicinal Carrots]

If you were rerolling 1s, old plasma was safer if you were firing 6 or fewer shots for the model. 

[Kallas]

Spoiler

Primaris Sword Brethren with yet another example of Combi-Weapons being identical across the board. Though they have BS 3+, which would suggest Sternguard will likely have BS 3+ too, making them more effective than my assumed 4+ at least.

[Blindhamster]

yeah think its a done deal at this point right?

 

It's a fine weapon, though I do agree the way its setup is kinda sad feeling in some ways too. They at least should have had an anti tank version, even if it were only anti tank 5+

 

[Marshal Reinhard]

34 minutes ago, Kallas said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Primaris Sword Brethren with yet another example of Combi-Weapons being identical across the board. Though they have BS 3+, which would suggest Sternguard will likely have BS 3+ too, making them more effective than my assumed 4+ at least.

Oh hey now, Swordbrethren have combi weapons now? That's new. During 9th you could only equip the "auto plasma" on a model if you built him as a castellan. I wonder if this means they'll have the option to take 1 combi weapon per 5 man, as per the kit....

 

EDIT: actually that's the most likely interpretation. The "castellan" model probably functions as a "sergeant" and is the only model who can take a combi weapon and master crafted power weapon (given that there's a profile for regular power weapons too)

 

But back on track: Yeah, combi weapons are definately this profile now. I just can't see it being anything else without any evidence to the contrary. And it seems clear that there's no differentiation between classic combi weapons and bolt rifle based ones. 

Edited June 1, 2023 by Marshal Reinhard

[Tacitus]

On 5/26/2023 at 6:06 AM, WrathOfTheLion said:

The gun still has a well defined purpose. We can clearly tell it's useful against elite infantry. I was not unclear in what I said.

You also said: 

Quote

at least they have a pretty well defined role

which implies they did not have a pretty well defined role before.   This is probably the source of your pushback.

On 5/26/2023 at 9:58 AM, Orange Knight said:

@Kallas

 

These weapons ignore all saves - Something that can definitely be appreciated when one encounters a 2+ invulnerable save, as an example. They definitely do exist.

 

Also these combi-weapons will indeed perform better than Melta or Plasma when targeting the right unit.

 

They CAN ignore all saves - but do not do so by default.

 

"The Right Unit" is now a much smaller cross section and cannot be changed by changing the Combi half of the weapon.  Landing a Drop Pod Bomb of Combi-Melta Sternguard next to Guilliman was not good news for Guilliman - This put him on his invuln, and just a couple getting through (likely with 10) would put him on his resurrection roll.   Now Guilliman, Lion, Morty, Angron, Magnus, Stormsurge, Avatar, Kairos, etc are far far less concerned about this.  The Sternguard Drop Pod Bomb wasn't really hitting it's stride going after 5 terminators.  In the first place five terminators likely cost your opponent only about 60% of what your Drop Pod Bomb cost you - and in the second you already had tools for 5 Terminators.  The Drop Pod Bomb was about the Alpha/Decap strike.   Going after the lynchpin of your opponent's army - the warlord, the TITANIC and/or LORD OF WAR everything else was built around. 

[Captain Idaho]

Goodhammer review of Sternguard tells us the unit gets Devastating Hits on all their shooting attacks, including Heavy Bolters with their D2 and Sustained hits, as well as improved bolters.

 

I think this might undermine Combi weapons with Sternguard.

[Karhedron]

On 6/3/2023 at 1:56 AM, Tacitus said:

The Drop Pod Bomb was about the Alpha/Decap strike.   Going after the lynchpin of your opponent's army - the warlord, the TITANIC and/or LORD OF WAR everything else was built around. 

 

And maybe that is what GW are trying to cut down on in 10th edition. If someone brings a 300+ point centrepiece unit, they don't want it being nuked on T1. If you want to kill your opponent's linchpin model, you will have to work a bit harder for it now. Alpha strikes were never fun a simply highlighted the problem of excessive lethality in 8th/9th which then led to the arms race of damage caps and other silliness.

Edited June 5, 2023 by Karhedron

[Helias_Tancred]

On 5/26/2023 at 2:32 AM, Karhedron said:

I think you might be right. While different from what came before, it is still a valid niche.

 

I don't know if we will get full combi-weapon squads though. The new Primaris version comes with 2 combi weapons, 2 bolters and a heavy bolter. We will have to see what this looks like on the datasheet.

 

I noticed that too in regards to assuming they will get new rules that make their bolt rifles better, etc. Because prior in 9th and 8th their only real schtick was massed combi-weapons. 

[Marshal Reinhard]

Im actually thinking the bolt rifles on the squad are also "combi weapons" through the use of special issue ammunition. 

 

Ill gladly be wrong on this but I think the aquad will have one profile for the entire squad + HB or HF. Will completely negate the need to differentiate between the old and new sternguard kit

[Captain Idaho]

The goonhammer review says they have super bolters standard and the heavy bolter is definitely an option they can take, alongside Combi-weapons:

 

 

 

[Karhedron]

I can see me ,making room for a squad of Sternguard. I think they might go nicely in a Repulsor so that they can hop back inside if the enemy tries to charge them.

[Sir Clausel]

Looks like ill convert the guys with combis to have normal bolters. Seems like a unit capable of doing a little reliable damage to every unit. If they arnt too costly i will find a place for them :)

[Captain Idaho]

I'll be all over Sternguard. I have a squad ready to roll I'm itching to out to use.

[Tokugawa]

Sternguard still need reasonable points cost to compete with hellblasters though.  Hellblaster possibly have a gun with "A2 assault heavy S7 AP-2 dmg1", if sticking with non-overcharge mode.

[Karhedron]

1 hour ago, Tokugawa said:

Sternguard still need reasonable points cost to compete with hellblasters though.  Hellblaster possibly have a gun with "A2 assault heavy S7 AP-2 dmg1", if sticking with non-overcharge mode.

 

In 9th, Sternguard were 20ppm while Hellblasters were 30. Obviously this could all change but if the 2:3 ratio remains similar, I can definitely see the appeal of Sternguard. The problem with Hellblasters is they are significantly weaker now vs vehicles as they will need 5s to wound almost all tanks, even when Overcharging. Overcharging will also be a lot more risky now that you cannot simply plonk a Captain with them to mitigate most of the 1s.

 

Lets compare 6 Hellblasters vs 9 Sternguard with bolters and make a guess they cost roughly the same points and work out their shooting vs MEQs. Hellblasters will get 12 shots, hitting on 3s, wounding on 3s, saving on 5s which gives an average of about 4 wounds inflicted or 2 dead MEQs. If they overcharge that becomes 4 MEQs killed but you will lose an average of 1 Hellblaster each time you do this.

 

9 Sternguard will get 18 shots, hitting on 3s, wounding on 4s and saving on 4s but with MWs on a 6 to Wound. That means an average of 12 hits, 4 normal wounds and 2 MWs. 2 of those normal wounds get past the armour save so again, 2 dead MEQs. That means that without overcharging, they are just as good at killing MEQs at Hellblaster on a point for point basis if they are moving and outside 12".

 

Now comes the big BUT! Sternguard have both Heavy and Rapid Fire 1 which means that at >12", they can get +1 to hit if they stand still. If they Advance to <12" then they get 27 shots which boosts their output to 3 MEQs, that is in between the normal and overcharged performance of the Hellblasters but with no risk of overheats. All this is just with their regular bolters. Once you start putting in extra weapons like Heavy Bolters and/or Combi-weapons, the Sternguard rapidly start to outperform the Hellblasters, against infantry, particularly anything with an Invulnerable save.

 

So overall if will all come down to the costs. If both squads are priced as they are in 9th then naked Sternguard compare well with Hellblasters. Hellblasters have the option to overcharge which increases their damage output but also risks killing a squad member very time you do it. Sternguard get more boots on the ground for the points which is important considering how Battleshock works in 10th. If Sternguard upgrades like Heavy bolters and combi-weapons are quite cheap, I can easily see them outperforming Hellblasters on all metrics vs Infantry and getting close vs vehicles.

Edited June 5, 2023 by Karhedron

[Kallas]

Couple of corrections:

6 hours ago, Karhedron said:

Lets compare 6 Hellblasters vs 9 Sternguard with bolters and make a guess they cost roughly the same points and work out their shooting vs MEQs. Hellblasters will get 12 shots, hitting on 3s, wounding on 3s, saving on 5s which gives an average of about 4 wounds inflicted or 2 dead MEQs.

It'd be 12 shots hitting on 3s -> 8 hits, wounding on 3s -> 5(.28) wounds, saving on 5s -> 3(.48) fails, so 3 damage..

Overcharged is 12 shots hitting on 3s -> 8 hits, wounding on 2s -> 6(.664) wounds, saving on 6s -> 5(.55) fails, so 5 dead MEQs.

This is also assuming that Hellblasters have exactly the same Plasma Guns as Guard (except with BS3+ and 2A instead of RF1), which they probably won't - it'll likely be AP-3/OC AP-4, or higher Strength, or Heavy+Assault like Bolt Rifles - something to account for their various improved profiles previously.

 

6 hours ago, Karhedron said:

9 Sternguard will get 18 shots, hitting on 3s, wounding on 4s and saving on 4s but with MWs on a 6 to Wound. That means an average of 12 hits, 4 normal wounds and 2 MWs. 2 of those normal wounds get past the armour save so again, 2 dead MEQs. That means that without overcharging, they are just as good at killing MEQs at Hellblaster on a point for point basis if they are moving and outside 12".

18 shots, hitting on 3s -> 12 hits, wounding on 4s (+DW) -> 4 wounds +2MW, saving on 4s -> 2 fails, plus 2 MW, so 4 damage, better than regular and worse than OC Plasma.

 

6 hours ago, Karhedron said:

Now comes the big BUT! Sternguard have both Heavy and Rapid Fire 1 which means that at >12", they can get +1 to hit if they stand still. If they Advance to <12" then they get 27 shots which boosts their output to 3 MEQs, that is in between the normal and overcharged performance of the Hellblasters but with no risk of overheats.

27 shots, hitting on 3s -> 18 hits, wounding on 4s (+DW) -> 6 wounds +3 MW, saving on 4s -> 3 fails, plus 3 MW, so 6 damage/3 dead MEQs; still lower than OC Plasma, but a good bit better than regular Plasma (still assuming no boost over Guard Plasma, of course).

 

6 hours ago, Karhedron said:

Once you start putting in extra weapons like Heavy Bolters and/or Combi-weapons, the Sternguard rapidly start to outperform the Hellblasters, against infantry, particularly anything with an Invulnerable save.

Against MEQs.

 

Once Toughness becomes a bigger factor, the Bolters drop off until the Toughness is higher than the Plasma's Strength.

Some maths:

Spoiler

*I'll probably muck up the numbers somewhere in here. My eyes did go cross eyed several times, so if you see a mistake, lemme know so I can fix it.

 

vs MEQs (to have them all in one place):

Bolters: 18 shots on 3s -> 12 hits, wounding on 4s (+DW) -> 5 wounds +2MW, saving on 4s -> 2(.5) fails plus 2 MW, so 4(.5) damage total (2 dead)

Bolters (RF): 27 shots on 3s -> 18 hits, wounding on 4s (+DW) -> 6 wounds +3MW, saving on 4s -> 3 fails, plus 3 MW, so 6 damage (3 dead)

Plasma: 12 shots on 3s -> 8 hits, wounding on 3s -> 5(.28) wounds, saving on 5s -> 3(.48) fails, so 3 damage (1 dead)

Plasma (OC): 12 shots on 3s -> 8 hits, wounding on 2s -> 6(.664) wounds, saving on 6s -> 5(.55) fails, so 5 x2 damage (5 dead)

Combis: 9 shots on 4s -> 4(.5) hits, wounding on 4s(+DW) -> 2(.25)MW, so 1 dead

Combi (RF): 18 shots on 4s -> 9 hits, wounding on 4s(+DW) -> 4(.5)MW, so 2 dead

vs MEQs OC Plasma is by far the strongest, but Bolters beat out regular Plasma pretty handily.

 

vs Terminators (Death Guard or otherwise):

Bolters: 18 shots on 3s -> 12 hits, wounding on 5s (+DW) -> 2 wounds +2MW, saving on 3s -> 0(.66) fails, plus 2 MW, so 2(.66) damage total

Bolters (RF): 27 shots on 3s -> 18 hits, wounding on 5s (+DW) -> 3 wounds +3MW, saving on 3s -> 1 fail, plus 3 MW, so 3 damage total, one dead

Plasma: 12 shots on 3s -> 8 hits, wounding on 3s -> 5(.28) wounds, saving on 4s -> 2(.64) fails, so 2 damage total.

Plasma (OC): 12 shots on 3s -> 8 hits, wounding on 3s -? 5(.28) wounds, saving on 4s (invulnerable) -> 2(.64) fails, so 4 damage total = 1 dead Terminator (plus Hazardous Plasma )

Combis: 9 shots on 4s -> 4(.5) hits, wounding on 4s(+DW) -> 2(.25)MW, so none dead

Combi (RF): 18 shots on 4s -> 9 hits, wounding on 4s(+DW) -> 4(.5)MW, so 1 dead

vs Terminators, if DW follows the average (or more) then it's better than regular Plasma; OC Plasma is more statistically reliable, but DW Bolters have more potential to spike. 

 

vs Gravis (apparently T6, no mention of Sv2+, so assuming Sv3+):

Bolters: 18 shots on 3s -> 12 hits, wounding on 5s (+DW) -> 2 wounds +2MW, saving on 4s -> 1 fail, plus 2 MW, so 3 damage

Bolters (RF): 27 shots on 3s -> 18 hits, wounding on 5s (+DW) -> 3 wounds +3MW, saving on 4s -> 1(.5) fails, plus 3 MW so 4(.5) damage; so either 3W or 4W it's one still dead Gravis.

Plasma: 12 shots on 3s -> 8 hits, wounding on 3s -> 5(.28) wounds, saving on 5s -> 3.(48) fails/damage (one dead 3W Gravis; about a 50/50 if 4W Gravis)

Plasma (OC): 12 shots on 3s -> 8 hits, wounding on 3s -> 5(.28) wounds, saving on 6s -> 4(.4) fails of 2D; so assuming 3W or 4W, two dead Gravis

Combis: 9 shots on 4s -> 4(.5) hits, wounding on 4s(+DW) -> 2(.25)MW, so none dead

Combi (RF): 18 shots on 4s -> 9 hits, wounding on 4s(+DW) -> 4(.5)MW, so 1 dead

vs Gravis, OC Plasma wins by virtue of high AP; regular Plasma is good, because it's still wounding on 3s with AP-2 but Bolters are better once in Rapid Fire range)

 

vs Termigants/GEQs:

Bolters 18 shots -> 12 hits, wounding on 3s (+DW) -> 6 wounds +2MW, saving on 6s -> 6 fails, plus 1 MW, so 7 dead

Bolters (RF): 27->18->10(+2DW)-> 8(.33) fails, +2 MW; so 10(.33) dead

Plasma (and OC, but never OC into gaunts...): 12->8->6(.664) dead

Combis: 9 shots on 4s -> 4(.5) hits, wounding on 4s(+DW) -> 2(.25)MW, so 2(.25) dead

Combi (RF): 18 shots on 4s -> 9 hits, wounding on 4s(+DW) -> 4(.5)MW, so 4(.5) dead

vs GEQs Plasma is about even with the Bolters until Rapid Fire comes into play, then they take it easily. Combis are pretty bad here, losing even to Plasma.

 

vs (Heavy) Aspect Warriors (T3, 1W, 3+/5++):

Bolters: 18 shots -> 12 hits, wounding on 3s (+DW) -> 6 wounds +2 MW, saving on 4s -> 3 fails plus 2 MW, so 5 damage

Bolters (RF): 27 shots -> 18 hits, wounding on 3s (+DW) -> 9 wounds +3 MW, saving on 4s -> 4(.5) fails plus 4 MW; so 7(.5) damage

Plasma (and OC): 12 shots -> 8 hits, wounding on 2s -> 6(.664) wounds, saving on 5s -> 4(.4) fails

Combis: 9 shots on 4s -> 4(.5) hits, wounding on 3s(+DW on 4s) -> (0.75) hits +2(.25)MW saving on 3s-> 0.25 fails plus 2(.25)MW, so 2(.25) dead

Combi (RF): 18 shots on 4s -> 9 hits, wounding on 3s(+DW on 4s) -> 1(.5) wounds +4(.5)MW saving on 3s -> 0.5 fails plus 4(.5)MW, so 5 dead

vs Heavy Aspects, Bolters win out through DW MW and Rapid Fire; Combis do ok here, a bit better than Plasma.

 

vs (Light) Aspect Warriors (T3, 4+/5++):

Bolters: 18-> 12-> 6+2MW-> 4+2, so 6 damage

Bolters (RF): 27-> 18-> 9+3MW-> 6+3, so 9 damage

Plasma: 12-> 8-> 6(.664)-> 4(.4) damage

Combis: 9 shots on 4s -> 4(.5) hits, wounding on 3s(+DW on 4s) -> (0.75) hits +2(.25)MW saving on 4s-> 0.375 fails plus 2(.25)MW, so 2(.63) dead

Combi (RF): 18 shots on 4s -> 9 hits, wounding on 3s(+DW on 4s) -> 1(.5) wounds +4(.5)MW saving on 4s -> 0.75 fails plus 4(.5)MW, so 5(.25) dead

vs Light Aspects, Bolters win easily even outside of RF.

 

vs Ogryn (assuming T5/6, 3W, Sv5+ - not sure if we've seen them anywhere, this is just a guess):

Bolters: 18-> 12-> 2+2MW-> 1(.66)+2, so 3(.66) damage, so one dead Ogryn

Bolters (RF): 27-> 18-> 6+3MW-> 5+3, so 8 damage, so two dead Ogryn

Plasma: 12-> 8-> 5(.28)-> 5(.28) damage, so one dead Ogryn

Plasma (OC): 12-> 8-> 6(.664) -> 6(.664)x 2D; so 3 dead Ogryn (assuming the above profile is relatively close)

Combis: 9 shots on 4s -> 4(.5) hits, wounding on 4s(+DW) -> 2(.25)MW, so none dead

Combi (RF): 18 shots on 4s -> 9 hits, wounding on 4s(+DW) -> 4(.5)MW, so 1 dead

vs Ogryn (assuming the profile is vaguely close) the OC Plasma is strongest (but obviously Hazardous). The Plasma's AP lets them cut through and deal damage more reliably, and the DW of the Bolters is less effective (because it's basically just giving AP-2 instead of AP-1); so vs low Save/high Toughness, Plasma seems stronger.

 

vs Vypers (T6, 6W Sv3+: Light Vehicles, basically):

Bolters: 18-> 12-> 2+2MW-> 1+2MW, so 3 damage

Bolters (RF): 27-> 18-> 3+3MW-> 1(.5)+3MW, so 4(.5) damage

Plasma: 12-> 8-> 5(.28)-> 3(.48) damage

Plasma (OC): 12-> 8-> 5(.28) -> 3(.48) fails, so 6(.96) damage, so one dead Vyper

Combis: 9-> 4(.5)-> 0(.75) +0(.75)MW-> 0(.25)+0(.75)MW, so about 1 damage; doubled for RF.

vs light vehicles, OC Plasma is strongest but the DW helps the RF Bolters push through the decent Save to be reasonably close. Combis are, of course, awful here.

 

vs War Walkers (T7, 6W, Sv3+/4++, and -1 to wound - since people think they're gonna OP, let's have a look )

Bolters: 18-> 12, wounding on 6s-> 2MW-> 2 damage

Bolters (RF): 27-> 18-> 3MW-> 3 damage

Plasma: 12-> 8, wounding on 5s-> 2(.64) -> 1(.32) damage

Plasma (OC): 12-> 8, wounding on 4s-> 4-> 2, so 4 damage

Combis: 9-> 4(.5)-> 0(.75)MW-> 0(.75)MW, so about 1 damage; doubled for RF.

vs War Walkers, Bolters perform well because they're punching straight through the Save/Invuln, and the Plasma is losing a lot of punch to the Saves and the -1 to wound. Combis also terrible here, which is expected.

Plasma has the advantage into higher Toughness/Save/Wound models (and MEQs), mostly due to OC's extra AP and Damage; invulns muddy the waters a bit, as it will depend on how good an invuln they have. A Sv2+ with a 5++ is still giving the Plasma full value on its AP; but a 3+/5++ (eg, Aspect Warriors) is cutting out some of the AP value (but also no requiring an Overcharge anyway for optimal wounding, so somewhat moot). Bolters have a good amount of flexibility in that DW allows them to contribute some damage even against some of the toughest low-end targets (eg, the War Walkers)

 

Edit: Added in Combi-Weapons now that we've seen the full Sternguard datasheet. They're fine into most infantry, worse vs GEQs than either and slightly better than Plasma vs (Heavy) Aspect Warriors, but mostly worse than both Bolters and Plasma (and bearing in mind this is still assuming Hellblaster Plasma is exactly the same profile as the Guard Plasma Guns albeit 2A)

Edited June 5, 2023 by Kallas
Added CWs after Sternguard Datasheet shown

[Marshal Reinhard]

6 hours ago, Sir Clausel said:

Looks like ill convert the guys with combis to have normal bolters. Seems like a unit capable of doing a little reliable damage to every unit. If they arnt too costly i will find a place for them :)

 

Honestly, wondering if I could/should just call my veteran intercessors sternguard now.

 

I would like to model the models in the box with full swordbrethren trappings including capes etc.

[Kallas]

Ah great, looks like GW said you to anyone who, like me, enjoyed their Sternguard Heavy Flamers and Grav Cannons.

Spoiler

I guess I now have to hold on to a vain hope that this is just a Leviathan Datasheet and not the Index one...

[Captain Idaho]

There's no way they're producing different datasheets for Sternguard. Terminators got options for stuff not in the box as well, so this is likely it for Sternguard. 

 

No Sergeant options is equally lame. So a Tactical or Intercessor squad Sergeant is better equipped than a 1st Company Veteran Sergeant?

 

Tacticus keyword implies bloat rules but apart from that my Firstborn Sternguard are still usable. Well after the Sergeant has some surgery unfortunately.

[Kallas]

8 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

There's no way they're producing different datasheets for Sternguard. Terminators got options for stuff not in the box as well, so this is likely it for Sternguard. 

You're probably right 

Sigh. There goes some more of my interest in 10th.

[Colman]

Didn’t they say combat patrol boxes - which this is - would have special data sheets for the sake of balance? 

[Blindhamster]

my bet: sternguard will have limited options till the codex and an mpk drops. I agree with you guys that its dumb though, if they're intending the unit to support the old models too (which they said) it really should have the same base options in terms of sergeant melee weapons and heavy weapon options.

[Kallas]

26 minutes ago, Colman said:

Didn’t they say combat patrol boxes - which this is - would have special data sheets for the sake of balance? 

In the Combat Patrol article we saw the Terminator Captain datasheet which has a pretty explicitly different datasheet and says "Combat Patrol datasheet" on the top right.

 

None of these have that, and they are advertised as Leviathan datasheets but have more options than are available on the Leviathan sprues (eg, Terminators can have a Heavy Flamer or Cyclone Missile Launcher, but these are not on the sprues). It is possible that these are specifically for the Leviathan box set, but it would be odd to release a handful of datasheets to then override them with Index datasheets in a few days.

 

Of course I'm hoping they are just Leviathan sheets, but I don't see it happening.

  

2 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

my bet: sternguard will have limited options till the codex and an mpk drops.

Sounds reasonable, though I'm not holding my breath. Terminators have their full array of options on this sheet, but not on the sprues.

Edited June 5, 2023 by Kallas
Response to BH

[Medicinal Carrots]

Lack of sergeant options and going from 2 special or heavy regardless of size to 1 HB per 5 suck. And the non-combi bolters seem to be the better all round option for basic weapons (with combis marginally better against elite infantry, worse otherwise), removing the squad of combis identity. On the plus side, my squad of bolter vets I didn't bother to magnetize but am proud of the paint job may see some play. Just have to figure out what to swap the sarge's chainsword for (the 1 bit I did magnetize).

Edited June 5, 2023 by Medicinal Carrots