Wh40k 10th Edition Faction Focus: Space Marine Chapters

[jaxom]

14 minutes ago, Handsome Fred said:

 

Anyway now is confimed the SS isn't a 3++ anymore but a +1w.

 

For Terminators, yes. The Deathwatch now have "Astartes Shields" and those give 4++

 

9 minutes ago, TempestBlade said:

Man the DA detachment rules look… bad. The other chapters get some cool stuff and DA get battleshocked unit have oc 1. Wow. Great. Can’t wait for the codex to get some good detachments. Guess I’ll be using the generic detachments unit then 

 

The less powerful the Detachment, the more powerful the units. DA get access to some really nice Terminator units, Ravenwing, etc. I think the Unforgiven Task Force is aimed at taking those units to supplement the Greenwing, if not only those units. Otherwise, play Gladius Task Force.

[Marshal Reinhard]

22 minutes ago, Tokugawa said:

Brethens finally received the 3rd wound.

And master crafted power weapons

[SalamandersBro]

Was hoping for Salamanders stuff. Oh well.

[Muck1ng]

4 minutes ago, Bouargh said:

Overall OK - and it will be less headackes to field a SW painted army using BA rules. A grat way to include proxy units too (ooP Wulfen as DeathCompany anyone?)

 

My main doubts are:

• Hound sof Morkai - How did they passed the test (of Morkai) to 10th Ed?
• SW Detachment ruels - I am a SW fanatic, but I am not convinced by this. 
• WolfGuard unit leaders?

I really like the DA rule.

The SW rules with the fact they can stack is awesome, I see getting 2 -3 of a game also very flyffy)

With regards to wolfguard leaders I think these will still be a choice for firstborn units on the data sheets  

 

[Captain Idaho]

Looking at the Detachment rules, I can see Space Wolves players ditching the harder to use Saga system and just going for the Righteous Crusaders or Red Thirst rules.

 

Dark Angels won't touch their Grim Resolve with the Deathwatch rules I reckon. I know I wouldn't, seems totally lacklustre.

[StormLion]

Typo or intentional, you be the judge: Death Company Bolt Rifle doesn't show the Assault or Heavy key words.

[ServoBadger]

I haven't been keeping up with the other reveals for 10th so I apologise for this undoubtedly stupid question, but for Deathwatch does this mean that Stalker bolters, shotguns, storm bolters and so on are no longer a thing?

[Xenith]

35 minutes ago, ChapterMasterGodfrey said:

Interesting that they each keep Oath of Moment, seemingly indicating that they're still Faction: Space Marines.

I'm guessing there might be soming like "Marneus Calgar cannot be taken in a Riteous Crusaders detachement" 

 

It's there in the article:

 

Quote

 

This means that any Space Marine army can choose to use these Detachments should they see fit, provided they abide by their restrictions – no matter how much you love Librarians, you won’t be taking Space Marine psykers in a Righteous Crusaders Detachment. The main one you’ll need to worry about is that you can’t mix in units with a different Chapter’s keywords, so no non-Space Wolves named characters or Deathwing Terminators in the Champions of Russ Detachment, for example

 

Emphasis mine. 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

I can see Space Wolves players ditching the harder to use Saga system and just going for the Righteous Crusaders or Red Thirst rules.

 

If they don't want to use any SPACE WOLF specific units, they're free to do it! However if you use the Red Thirst, you won't get to use SW specific units, which will undoubtedly be powerful. 

[lansalt]

I don't see how all this supports mixing paint schemes with random chapter rules. Are people going to be cool with a BA army using SW rules or something? Really?

I could see it with generic Codex Detachments with no unique Chapter flavour, but otherwise feels... unsportsmanlike.

[Nagashsnee]

What am i missing? What was stopping any color marines from using any color marines rules before? It will still be a ultramarine using BA rules no?  When the books come out you will still need a different codex? People who frowned at it will still frown? 

[Tokugawa]

DA has a weaker detachment rule as "Lion tax"?

[Bradeh]

Sword Brethen with 20+ attacks doing 3 damage each in combat? :O

[Captain Idaho]

@lansalt

 

And that was the thing people were unhappy about in the first place when we found our Ultramarines and Raven Guard etc couldn't take their own subfactions rules.

 

It's now extended to the other Chapters who traditionally had separate rules for their (sub)factions.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Captain Idaho

[Orange Knight]

Forgive all my responses, I've been distracted as I've looked over the rules.

 

Some interesting things I've picked up:

 

-The Astartes Grenade Launcher is actually a pretty decent weapon, it means two Intercessors in a squad of 10 can take a weapon comparable to a Plasma Gun (Less shots but higher strength and not hazardous)

 

-The Storm-shields granting an additional wound is really powerful. It will mean that a lot of weapons that would normally guarantee a kill against a Terminator lose their effectiveness.

 

-Classic Marines and Primaris are even more segregated than before. The transports no longer have restrictions, but non-Primaris characters can only join units of old Marines, and visa-versa. 

 

Lastly, I am surprised that we still haven't seen any point costs. I am very interested to see how the costs are done for individual squads - Do weapon upgrades still carry additional points or not?

[Muck1ng]

12 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

Looking at the Detachment rules, I can see Space Wolves players ditching the harder to use Saga system and just going for the Righteous Crusaders or Red Thirst rules.

 

Dark Angels won't touch their Grim Resolve with the Deathwatch rules I reckon. I know I wouldn't, seems totally lacklustre.

If they do that I think they loose the Unit Space Wolves units then as there will be limitations with the Detachments 

[SkimaskMohawk]

16 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

And master crafted power weapons

 

And a damage/attack boost

[TrawlingCleaner]

3 minutes ago, Tokugawa said:

DA has a weaker detachment rule as "Lion tax"?

 

I'm not sure it's inherently weaker, it's not got the same damage output for sure however it'll be incredibly strong into Daemons, Knights and 'Nids who need to turn off opponent's OC to score more points as most of their units are low OC values.

Killing units isn't the be all, end all of the game. I've mentioned this before but I think the armies that play into Battleshock are actually more likely to be stronger than those that can only blast things off the table

[Bradeh]

If we are being honest, how is this any different to how it's always been? I have a Dark Angels army, I'm going to use the the DA rules. I'm not going to start using rules from other factions just because they are better or worse. That is a different topic entirely about what the hobby should be. 

[Brother Captain Vakarian]

10 minutes ago, Nagashsnee said:

What am i missing? What was stopping any color marines from using any color marines rules before? It will still be a ultramarine using BA rules no?  When the books come out you will still need a different codex? People who frowned at it will still frown? 

It does make it a bit easier to find an appropriate rule set for a homebrew chapter. My Imperial Fists successor, which is much more like the Black Templars in temperament, might work really well as the “Righteous Crusaders” detachment, where before I would have had to jump through larger mental hoops to justify them as “blue Black Templars.” Whether I’ll do that or not depends on whether the other benefits are worth it in comparison to the generic Gladius detachment (enhancements and strats, vs the Gladius detachment options, and also whether I’m willing to give up Librarians). 
 

But, I agree that there doesn’t seem to be much difference between playing actual Space Wolves as counts-as Blood Angels, vs. 9th edition or prior. That still seems to be not supported (although doable if you avoid unique units and characters), and I doubt “the community” in general would be as OK with that sort of counts-as as it would be with successors being more flexible. 
 

Personally, I’m pretty happy with the flexibility this seems to be offering for successors. 

Edited June 1, 2023 by Brother Captain Vakarian

[SkimaskMohawk]

3 hours ago, lansalt said:

I don't see how all this supports mixing paint schemes with random chapter rules. Are people going to be cool with a BA army using SW rules or something? Really?

I could see it with generic Codex Detachments with no unique Chapter flavour, but otherwise feels... unsportsmanlike.

 

The answer is that it's always been done, and has also always irked people since the days of 4th when the chapter rules were first introduced for "vanilla" marines.

 

It feels bad to have a faction that you've invested the time to paint up only to "mirror match" into a counts-as fest of the same faction. But it also feels bad to just be at a huge disadvantage based on preference of aesthetics.

Edited June 1, 2023 by SkimaskMohawk

[MadEdric]

29 minutes ago, TrawlingCleaner said:

Deathwatch Combi weapons are now "Long Vigil ranged Weapons" with the same stats as all the other Combi Weapons and Power Weapons have been condensed into "Long Vigil melee weapons". Definitely looks like the Combi change is the same for everyone!

 

Those Wolves rules are ace! Bjorn's stonks just shot up!

No mention of SIA for the DW. Wonder if that is what the Long Vigil weapon is. That's too powerful for killteam to be armed with as their main weapon, especially with the boltgun profile shown. Maybe SIA is a strat now. Also, GW could you have at least shown the Corvis as well. I have two of these beauties and what to see what they can do now.

[Rain]

2 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

The answer is that it's always been done, and has also always irked people since the days of 4th when the chapter rules were first introduced.

 

It feels bad to have a faction that you've invested the time to paint up only to "mirror match" into a counts-as fest of the same faction. But it also feels bad to just be at a huge disadvantage based on preference of aesthetics.

Hell, there were *Chaos* armies in 4th and  5th using loyalist rules. Night Lords “counts as” Blood Angels. World Eaters “counts as” Space Wolves, etc. I never did it myself, but it was a reaction that many had to the Balanced and Streamlined (R) 4th ed Chaos codex.

[Xenith]

15 minutes ago, lansalt said:

I don't see how all this supports mixing paint schemes with random chapter rules. Are people going to be cool with a BA army using SW rules or something? Really?

I could see it with generic Codex Detachments with no unique Chapter flavour, but otherwise feels... unsportsmanlike.

 

People have done this for a long time, though admittedly less in recent history - it was common to see blue blood angels, or red ultramarines, or every colour of Iron hands, depending on what faction's rules were in ascendency. 

[Arikel]

Somewhat the opposite of what I expected, where they would each get a unique army rule but still use the marine detachment. Essentially gives sm 6 detachments to choose from starting from indexes, variety is always nice. Looks like my habit of kitbashing chapter bling from everyone into my army will hold me in good stead here.

 

Makes me wonder exactly what would be included in codexes for the alternate chapters going forward, apart from lore, chapter specific  detachments, and units/characters. Would they continue to just be basic sm otherwise, with other sm able to utilize their rules as ling as they abide by the detachment and keyword restictions?

[Squark]

Three of the Space Wolves Sagas are equal (Or in the case of Saga the Bear, weaker) than their equivalent Black Templar Vow, that is active 100% of the time. Ooookay. Hypothetically I guess Space Wolves could get better enhancements and strategems to balance this out, but color me skeptical as to this working out in practice. Edit: I didn't realize that Space Wolves could accumulate multiple sagas over the course of the battle. That makes this more of a risk vs. Reward choice.

 

Also, Black Templars can be Space Marines with army wide feel no pain so I guess I have to eat some crow and admit Death Guard just got dunked on for no good reason.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Squark