Wh40k 10th Edition Faction Focus: Space Marine Chapters

[Muck1ng]

Love how GW don't know their own Rules.


 

The Deathwing Command Squad packs a laundry list of special abilities, including the only Apothecary you’ll find in Terminator armour. His Narthecium can bring back a whole Terminator every single turn – that’s up to four Wounds of value for shield-bearing veterans!*

 

* We hope you xenos and heretics have brought a few Precision weapons to single the Apothecary out.


On the datasheet the Terminator Apocathary isn't a Character so can't be picked out by the Precision rule

[Doobles57]

26 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

And master crafted power weapons

Maybe? Regular power weapons are also listed though.

 

In addition there's a line for combi weapons which they can't currently take. However the Castellan that you build with the kit can do. So thinking that he's now not a character but instead a sergeant of swords and the master crafted weapon belongs to him with the rest having regular power weapons. 

[Blight1]

So another army gets army wide FNP and deathguard continue to be very sad.

[Marshal Reinhard]

1 minute ago, Doobles88 said:

Maybe? Regular power weapons are also listed though.

 

In addition there's a line for combi weapons which they can't currently take. However the Castellan that you build with the kit can do. So thinking that he's now not a character but instead a sergeant of swords and the master crafted weapon belongs to him with the rest having regular power weapons. 

Ah, yeah, that's the most realistic interpretation. Still a lot of buffs overall between the buffed offense, extra wound and these presumambly limited quantity weapons

[Doobles57]

1 minute ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Ah, yeah, that's the most realistic interpretation. Still a lot of buffs overall between the buffed offense, extra wound and these presumambly limited quantity weapons

Agreed I still like the datasheet a lot. Rolling all the power weapons into one stat line is great if nothing else. May expand my unit out to full size now they can go in a Land Raider Crusader too! 

[Captain Idaho]

1 hour ago, Bradeh said:

If we are being honest, how is this any different to how it's always been? I have a Dark Angels army, I'm going to use the the DA rules. I'm not going to start using rules from other factions just because they are better or worse. That is a different topic entirely about what the hobby should be. 

 

There are no Dark Angels rules, that's the point. I can use your rules if I want to. (I don't, they look awful, but I'll use the other Chapters Detachments)

 

 

*****

 

I feel a lot of people are misunderstanding these rules and think they're specific to a Chapter, with the Enhancements alongside them etc.

 

They're not. You take the Detachment as any Chapter, you get all the rules. The only thing you don't get is Chapter specific units and characters due to keywords.

 

I can take any of these Detachments with my Ultramarines and play exactly the same as you can.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Captain Idaho
Remove incorrect and confusing information

[CCE1981]

Wow, that Saga detachment rule looks good.  A Sniper Captain with Eliminators might be able to nab that Saga turn 1, the killing wound doesn’t need to be in melee assuming what is released is correct.  Saga of Majesty, guess I just need to add a Character to drop podding infernus guys, and uhm yeah doubling the OC of most models is incredible!  Beastslayer, just look at dedicated transports.

 Those Hounds of Morkai are a bit of a glow up.

 

 

Grim Resolve will represent Salamanders well. 
 

Red thirst is nice, a very angry Marine reaction.

Templars keep their vows

 

Considering the reaction to the Space Marine Combat Doctrines, I think the Deathwatch is less interesting, Space Wolves get that rule for the rest of the game, Deathwatch for a single turn.

 

GW went in a direction I think is pretty good here.  I made the arguments that armies like Black Templars should be more like the poster boys of Crusading Chapters of Space Marines.   They just did it with everything,  I actually agree with this.  A Terminator Army, or Bike Army should be available to all Chapters, White Scars and Blood Angels are known to have a preference for them, why don’t they have a detachment?  Well make a generic detachment and there you go, no need to have three different detachments to represent them.  
 

Note, I am applauding direction.  Implementation is still out there.  I love my DIY army, I like to figure out their character.  Being able to play them multiple different ways feels good.

[Blindhamster]

45 minutes ago, Bouargh said:

Overall OK - and it will be less headackes to field a SW painted army using BA rules. A grat way to include proxy units too (ooP Wulfen as DeathCompany anyone?)

 

My main doubts are:

• Hound sof Morkai - How did they passed the test (of Morkai) to 10th Ed?
• SW Detachment ruels - I am a SW fanatic, but I am not convinced by this. 
• WolfGuard unit leaders?

I really like the DA rule.

Hounds of Morkai actually look pretty great as a unit honestly, vs psykers they're going to do very good work, as vs psykers they have a 4++, can single out psykers in units (haha poor warlocks, for example), cause mortal wounds on a 4+ both at range and in melee and make psykers struggle to use their powers. And all their abilities work to some level even vs non-psykers.

 

  

37 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

Looking at the Detachment rules, I can see Space Wolves players ditching the harder to use Saga system and just going for the Righteous Crusaders or Red Thirst rules.

 

Dark Angels won't touch their Grim Resolve with the Deathwatch rules I reckon. I know I wouldn't, seems totally lacklustre.

They cant use these detachments with their own unique units, so, doubtful. Even for ultramarines, it'll mean giving up your characters - something that will matter to some and not to others

Edited June 1, 2023 by Blindhamster

[Dried]

11 minutes ago, Squark said:

Three of the Space Wolves Sagas are equal (Or in the case of Saga the Bear, weaker) than their equivalent Black Templar Vow, that is active 100% of the time. Ooookay. Hypothetically I guess Space Wolves could get better enhancements and strategems to balance this out, but color me skeptical as to this working out in practice.

 

Also, Black Templars can be Space Marines with army wide feel no pain so I guess I have to eat some crow and admit Death Guard just got dunked on for no good reason.

Yeah but Space Wolves can cumulate them...
I feel SW armies will need a lot of characters.

[Squark]

1 minute ago, Captain Idaho said:

 

There are no Dark Angels rules, that's the point. I can use your rules if I want to. (I don't, they look awful, but I'll use the other Chapters Detachments)

 

 

Well the Dark Angels can take those units and go for another, better Detachment.

 

*****

 

I feel a lot of people are misunderstanding these rules and think they're specific to a Chapter, with the Enhancements alongside them etc.

 

They're not. You take the Detachment as any Chapter, you get all the rules. The only thing you don't get is Chapter specific units and characters due to keywords.

 

I can take any of these Detachments with my Ultramarines and play exactly the same as you can.

They do say you can't take units that have a specific chapter tag in another detachment- No units with the Dark Angels tag in the Russ detachment is specifically called out. You can probably take such units in the Gladius, though.

[Xenith]

11 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

I can take any of these Detachments with my Ultramarines and play exactly the same as you can.

 

Like, this is how it's always been. Nothing has stopped you from using your ultramarines with blood angels rules, and just not taking the BA specific units, nor the UM specific units.

 

What you're missing, is that yes, while you can take ULTRMARINES and use them in a RED THIRST detachment or whatever, if you do that, you won't be allowed to use Calgar, etc, that are faction locked - you're stuck with generic units...just like now. I can happily use my red painted tactical marines, dreadnoughts, captains and such with the keyword Ultramarines, and steal their rules. I just can't use BLOOD ANGELS specific unit if I do. 

 

Quote

 

...no non-Space Wolves named characters... in the Champions of Russ Detachment, for example.

 

That's directly from the warcom article.

 

11 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

Well the Dark Angels can take those units and go for another, better Detachment.

 

 

Again, only if they choose to forego any DARK ANGELS specific units.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Xenith

[Madao]

58 minutes ago, TempestBlade said:

Man the DA detachment rules look… bad. The other chapters get some cool stuff and DA get battleshocked unit have oc 1. Wow. Great. Can’t wait for the codex to get some good detachments. Guess I’ll be using the generic detachments unit then 

This one is great as they can still score while battleshocked (poor Tyranids, Chaos Knights and AdMech)

[Dr. Clock]

33 minutes ago, Blight1 said:

army wide FNP

... in fairness they do need to unlock it first, and the unlock can be countered. I think 6+FnP shouldn't exist, personally, and I'm a bit surprised they put it in like this. I honestly don't think that many people will go for it, though.

 

EDIT: was just directed to the Vow version. Seems a bit borked that one chapter has to unlock and one can just choose it before battle. Again - shouldn't exist, but would be doubly so on a baseline T5, as that's already better than T4/6+++.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Dr. Clock

[Bradeh]

5 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

 

There are no Dark Angels rules, that's the point. I can use your rules if I want to. (I don't, they look awful, but I'll use the other Chapters Detachments)

 

 

Well the Dark Angels can take those units and go for another, better Detachment.

 

*****

 

I feel a lot of people are misunderstanding these rules and think they're specific to a Chapter, with the Enhancements alongside them etc.

 

They're not. You take the Detachment as any Chapter, you get all the rules. The only thing you don't get is Chapter specific units and characters due to keywords.

 

I can take any of these Detachments with my Ultramarines and play exactly the same as you can.

 

The essence of what BA, DA and SW started as back in 2nd was that they had unique units, that hasn't changed. I can't use Deathwing in a Blood Angels Detachment, I can't use Death Company in a Dark Angels Detachment or use Wulfen with Victrix Guard. The purpose of the rules hasn't changed. 

[Xenith]

Agree, the DA one looks weaker in a vaccuum, however we still don't know or understand the full implications of battleshock. It'll make taking objectives off them harder for sure. 

[GenerationTerrorist]

I'm sure when the full Codex for each is released, there will be different detachment possibilities. For example, Ravenwing or Deathwing detachments in the Dark Angels supplement.

 

Well, there better :cuss:ing had be.

[jaxom]

23 minutes ago, lansalt said:

I don't see how all this supports mixing paint schemes with random chapter rules. Are people going to be cool with a BA army using SW rules or something? Really?

I could see it with generic Codex Detachments with no unique Chapter flavour, but otherwise feels... unsportsmanlike.

 

It was slightly unclear (to me at least) if the shown Detachments require at least one unit with the matching Chapter keyword. That would at least require such an army to have recognizable Chapter-specific units. Like, if I want to use the Sons of Sanguinius Detachment to represent the Imperial Fists 8th Company, do I need unit that is recognizably Death Company or Sanguinary Guard?

 

22 minutes ago, Nagashsnee said:

What am i missing? What was stopping any color marines from using any color marines rules before? It will still be a ultramarine using BA rules no?  When the books come out you will still need a different codex? People who frowned at it will still frown? 

 

My guess is that any temptation to do so will go away once there are a greater variety of Detachments for people who want a more assault focused Ultramarines experience 

[Blindhamster]

as others have said, nothings changed, every edition marine players will switch around which codex they use based on rules, suddenly there's blue dark angels during 9th, black blood angels during 8th etc. It happens all the time, and the rules around doing it are literally no different - you still can't take unique characters or units in a detachment that isn't their chapter. Probable exception being Gladius, which i suspect will be generic and open to all that desire to use it.

[Xenith]

2 minutes ago, jaxom said:

Like, if I want to use the Sons of Sanguinius Detachment to represent the Imperial Fists 8th Company, do I need unit that is recognizably Death Company or Sanguinary Guard?

 

No, using that detachment just prevents you from using units that are locked to a chapter other than BLOOD ANGELS. So no Tor Garadon if you decide to use the Red Thirst detachment ability. 

[bigtrouble]

I am absolutely floored at those Dark Angels previews. Finally grim resolve has meaning and objective control terminators is a real thing! Also, hilarious that the narthecium is both a special wargear and a chainfist.

 

The Lion is an absolutely savage datasheet. Not so much on the offense, but defensively he is pretty scary. Turns off strats, wound roll modifiers, 3+ invuln? That Emperor’s shield is not just a toy!

 

I think I might cry.

 

 

[Muck1ng]

3 minutes ago, bigtrouble said:

I am absolutely floored at those Dark Angels previews. Finally grim resolve has meaning and objective control terminators is a real thing! Also, hilarious that the narthecium is both a special wargear and a chainfist.

 

The Lion is an absolutely savage datasheet. Not so much on the offense, but defensively he is pretty scary. Turns off strats, wound roll modifiers, 3+ invuln? That Emperor’s shield is not just a toy!

 

I think I might cry.

 

 

 

The Lion is amazing with Oaths of moment and Fight first good luck killing him in Melee 

[Orange Knight]

The Lion is exceptional. He also subtracts 1 from the wound roll when he is the target of an attack. Basically no other infantry or monster will trouble him.

[painting.for.my.sanity]

13 minutes ago, Dr. Clock said:

... in fairness they do need to unlock it first, and the unlock can be countered. I think 6+FnP shouldn't exist, personally, and I'm a bit surprised they put it in like this. I honestly don't think that many people will go for it, though.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

 

Space Wolves do. Black Templars can have it from the get-go.

 

27 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Ah, yeah, that's the most realistic interpretation. Still a lot of buffs overall between the buffed offense, extra wound and these presumambly limited quantity weapons

 

What is a bit weird is that Lightning Claws aren't listed on that datasheet - I get swords, mauls and axes being rolled together, but the claws too?

[Marshal Reinhard]

1 minute ago, painting.for.my.sanity said:

 

Space Wolves do. Black Templars can have it from the get-go.

 

 

What is a bit weird is that Lightning Claws aren't listed on that datasheet - I get swords, mauls and axes being rolled together, but the claws too?

Wonder if its a mistaken omission. because if nothing else they'd still get twinlinked right?

[Arikel]

11 minutes ago, Xenith said:

 

Like, this is how it's always been. Nothing has stopped you from using your ultramarines with blood angels rules, and just not taking the BA specific units, nor the UM specific units.

 

What you're missing, is that yes, while you can take ULTRMARINES and use them in a RED THIRST detachment or whatever, if you do that, you won't be allowed to use Calgar, etc, that are faction locked - you're stuck with generic units...just like now. I can happily use my red painted tactical marines, dreadnoughts, captains and such with the keyword Ultramarines, and steal their rules. I just can't use BLOOD ANGELS specific unit if I do.

While you are right in that you would not be able to take any ultramarines specific units, I see nothing in the article that would prevent you from designating one of your intercessor squads as a death company intercessor unit as long as its weapons match the datasheet.

You follow the rules of the detachment, which is what unlocks the blood angels specific units and characters , blocking all other unique units and characters , from what I can gather.