Wh40k 10th Edition Faction Focus: Space Marine Chapters

[Bradeh]

1 minute ago, Arikel said:

While you are right in that you would not be able to take any ultramarines specific units, I see nothing in the article that would prevent you from designating one of your intercessor squads as a death company intercessor unit as long as its weapons match the datasheet.

You follow the rules of the detachment, which is what unlocks the blood angels specific units and characters , blocking all other unique units and characters , from what I can gather.

 

Yes but only in Gladius detachment or Blood Angels detachment which makes basically means your army is Blood Angels anyway. 

[Blight1]

21 minutes ago, Dr. Clock said:

... in fairness they do need to unlock it first, and the unlock can be countered. I think 6+FnP shouldn't exist, personally, and I'm a bit surprised they put it in like this. I honestly don't think that many people will go for it, though.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

Black templars just pick it.  Hadn't even noticed the possibility was there for space wolves

[Large and Moving Torb]

17 minutes ago, Xenith said:

Agree, the DA one looks weaker in a vaccuum, however we still don't know or understand the full implications of battleshock. It'll make taking objectives off them harder for sure. 

 

I agree with both you and TrawlingCleaner. The DA rule certainly isn't as sexy as some other faction rules, but it seems like a good way to help pile on points through holding objectives and denying points by contesting them. Being able to continue to gain points made the difference in the CP battle report released the other day.

[Orange Knight]

The Deathguard have retained their higher toughness at least. 5 - 6 across the board.

 

I would wager that a unit we haven't yet seen will unlock FNP for a unit he joins.

[Captain Idaho]

34 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

 They cant use these detachments with their own unique units, so, doubtful. Even for ultramarines, it'll mean giving up your characters - something that will matter to some and not to others

 

True, but for players who don't take Special Characters, including Chapters who might not have decent special characters worth giving up better army rules, this isn't an issue.

 

Outside of Guilliman, I doubt there's a character for Ultramarines who is so pivotal he'll change the game more than a brilliant swap of Detachment special rules and Enhancements.

 

Thinking about it, it definitely means there's less differences between armies belonging to Primaris only preferences, as Space Wolves don't have equivalent Blood Claws etc to "count as".

 

After all, Bladeguard can easily use the Sword Brethren BT rules for any Chapter.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Captain Idaho

[Xenith]

10 minutes ago, Arikel said:

While you are right in that you would not be able to take any ultramarines specific units, I see nothing in the article that would prevent you from designating one of your intercessor squads as a death company intercessor unit as long as its weapons match the datasheet.

You follow the rules of the detachment, which is what unlocks the blood angels specific units and characters , blocking all other unique units and characters , from what I can gather.

 

Yep, at which point you are playing Blue Blood Angels, which has always been allowed. This is no different to right now. 

[Arkhanist]

Blood Angels have been reduced from before as expected - +1S and +1A when charging, compared to +1 advance and charge distance and +1 to wound, and +1A when charging, charged and HI in assault doctrine. With toughness going up, +1S is definitely not as good.

 

A lot simpler though rather than the previous stack of rules and should make blending infantry still fairly effective.

 

Hopefully there's a strat, or chaplains or the like can still buff charges!

 

DC rifle intercessors kinda have a reason to exist now with free overwatch, which is nice, though I think classic jump pack DC will remain more useful.

 

I do like though that running a BA army that's not 90% DC, vanguard vets or sanguinary guard won't be heavily penalising yourself as it was in 8th and 9th - oath of moment buffs shooting too, and we're likely gonna need something with large calibre to take on tanks and monsters.

 

I could of course use a different detachment, but no BA units or chars allowed in those, which is definitely a disincentive. I wonder if that also applies to the generic doctrines one?

 

Thank god we didn't get death guarded though!

[Isual]

Wow, I had no expectations and jet I am still disappointed. 

The lion got a good boost, but the detachment ability seams pretty lackluster. Even if they still have oc 1 they still can easily be overpowered. In addition its pretty situational (again *groan*) while +1 to str. and attacks on charge is universally great if your primary tactic is charging other people. 

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Im really struggling with the space wolf one. Its so fun and characterful, but compared to just the 4 previewed here its clearly the weakest as you don't have 100% control over the abilities you get. Plus you need to bring alot of characters to get use out of this which will likely be expensive points wise. I think its a bit of a miss sadly. You basically start with 0 detachment bonus, and each one you unlock is worth about half a detachment bonus. So maybe by Turn 3 you have a whole detachment bonus. If it had an always active ability like +1 charge and advance and then this set of rules i might be more on board but this is a bit meh for me

[TrawlingCleaner]

I'm very certain these 5 won't also get access to the Gladius detatchment. 

Why would every other army only be given 1 detatchment each in the index but then these 5 be the exception?

I know they're special snowflakes and all but... 

 

Using other chapters rules has been a thing as long as I've been in the hobby (decade plus), paint schemes have never mattered (blue is bad tho )

[Blindhamster]

30 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

 

True, but for players who don't take Special Characters, including Chapters who might not have decent special characters worth giving up better army rules, this isn't an issue.

 

Outside of Guilliman, I doubt there's a character for Ultramarines who is so pivotal he'll change the game more than a brilliant swap of Detachment special rules and Enhancements.

 

Thinking about it, it definitely means there's less differences between armies belonging to Primaris only preferences, as Space Wolves don't have equivalent Blood Claws etc to "count as".

 

After all, Bladeguard can easily use the Sword Brethren BT rules for any Chapter.

oh yeah for sure, but thats exactly as its been for many editions anyway.

 

honestly, I'm looking at Gladius and thinking its better than red thirst anyway :D Red thirst requires you play very very melee focused AND have to be the one charging now, where for the last couple of editions it was just about the first round of combat. The Gladius rules are for sure going to be much better over the course of the game for a skilled player, because they can be used to move around better without reducing effectiveness.

 

You're definitely right that if you don't use faction specific units, its a free for all on the detachment front!

[Sete]

3 wound sword bros.

Nice.

[Arkhanist]

13 minutes ago, TrawlingCleaner said:

I'm very certain these 5 won't also get access to the Gladius detatchment. 

Why would every other army only be given 1 detatchment each in the index but then these 5 be the exception?

I know they're special snowflakes and all but... 

 

Using other chapters rules has been a thing as long as I've been in the hobby (decade plus), paint schemes have never mattered (blue is bad tho )

 

Well technically any space marine army gets access to these 5 too, they just have to give up named characters and any of their own bespoke units - blue Blood Angels are officially fine now (which is good, because some people could be funny about that sort of thing) - as long as you don't take e.g. Calgar.  I'm sure we've seen somewhere that variant chapters do get access to the Gladius detachment as well (can't find it atm) but the question mark is whether that doing so also locks them out from their named chars and units e.g. no Dante or Deathwing in a Gladius detachment, or not.

 

Other factions will be getting alternative detachments for sure when their codexes drop - it's effectively replacing subfactions. But since 1st founding chapters have substantial custom model support (and sales to go with it)  they get it in the indexes as well. But I'm sure eldar will get craftworld detachments, orks will get clan detachments etc etc.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Arkhanist

[Khornestar]

Unless this is wrong, all chapters get access to the Gladius:

 

And the asterisk for those wondering, doesn’t exclude them from the gladius, but only adds additional options :

 

Edited June 1, 2023 by Khornestar

[Special Officer Doofy]

2 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

Army wide FNP is nice

 

"Hello darkness my old friend..."

 

40 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

The Deathguard have retained their higher toughness at least. 5 - 6 across the board.

 

5-6T doesn't mean crap compared to 5+++ or -1D though. All it helps with is other armies cheap infantry low S weapons. And with EVERY army getting a bump up in toughness (vehicles, monsters, primarchs, terminators, LoV, etc...) 5-6 ain't special at all. Orcs, LoV, Custodes, Marines, Admech, Grey knights all have T5+ troops. That's well over 70% of the table top armies I see.

 

And no I'm not mad DG lost DR, I love it. 

[Burni]

Getting a plastic war hound coming soon vibe from the end of the article but probably reading too much into it.

 

I like the flexibility of making my generic Primaris UMs into blue Blood Angels. Definitely going to be trying that out. 

[TrawlingCleaner]

12 minutes ago, Khornestar said:

Unless this is wrong, all chapters get access to the Gladius:

 

And the asterisk for those wondering, doesn’t exclude them from the gladius, but only adds additional options :

 

 

Nice spot, I was definitely wrong!

Very odd that they're the only ones to get an additional attachment in the Indexes. They truly are special snowflakes! 

[Khornestar]

Just now, TrawlingCleaner said:

 

Nice spot, I was definitely wrong!

Very odd that they're the only ones to get an additional attachment in the Indexes. They truly are special snowflakes! 

And I suppose one can’t guarantee that using the gladius allows a chapter to use its chapter-specific keyworded units, but my assumption is that they’re fair game.

[Vardus]

6 minutes ago, Khornestar said:

And I suppose one can’t guarantee that using the gladius allows a chapter to use its chapter-specific keyworded units, but my assumption is that they’re fair game.

 

The only reason Chapter specific units would not be usable as far as I can tell would be if they lacked the Adeptus Astartes keyword.

 

The when picking and army select a keyword should cover this, ie, unit has Adeptus Astartes, Ultramarine keywords then it is usable in the Gladius but not an Unforgiven Task force. Deathwing Terminators have Adeptus Astartes, Dark Angels keywords and would be usable in both, same for other named chapters etc.

 

 

Edited June 1, 2023 by Vardus

[Kastor Krieg]

2 hours ago, Bradeh said:

Sword Brethen with 20+ attacks doing 3 damage each in combat? :O

Master-crafted attacks. And Primarch grade Leadership 5+. And Death Guard resilience FnP 6+, which DG themselves iirc lost.

Let's gooooo!

[Khornestar]

I’d temper expectations for master crafted beyond what was once the castellan and may now be a 1/5 or 1/10 option.

[Arkhanist]

Quote

The only reason Chapter specific units would not be usable as far as I can tell would be if they lacked the Adeptus Astartes keyword.

 

I'm presuming it works that way also, but given the way they've worded the restrictions for the new detachments it's a possibility that variant chapters can't do that as they have the other detachment available also, so they can only take stuff from the vanilla dex. it's a slight concern, mostly theoretical, mainly because I'm generally waiting for the other shoe to drop when it comes to GW.... I'm not going all combi-weapons over it, put it that way.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Arkhanist

[Kastor Krieg]

3 minutes ago, Khornestar said:

I’d temper expectations for master crafted beyond what was once the castellan and may now be a 1/5 or 1/10 option.

Fair. But THREE WOUNDS!

[Captain Idaho]

I suspect Sternguard, Vanguard and Bladeguard will all get 3 wounds.

[Tokugawa]

5 minutes ago, Kastor Krieg said:

Fair. But THREE WOUNDS!

Glad to see Brethen recieved the 3rd wound, however it should belong to them originally. They are just loyalist equivalent of chosen, power armoured elite melee infantry with power weapons, which got 3W and free power weapons along with the new kits in latest release.