Wh40k 10th Edition Faction Focus: Space Marine Chapters

[Marshal Reinhard]

Blade guard are likely going to 4 wounds. 3 wounds base +1 for storm shield.

[Vanger]

2 hours ago, Tokugawa said:

DA has a weaker detachment rule as "Lion tax"?

I disagree. That completly counters the 'nid faction ability Shadow in the Warp.

 

Towards the end, your units are usually pretty beaten up. Most of them will be below half strength and will require to do regular battleshock tests. Or the nid player hits your with shadow. Even if you fail the tests, you still hold the objectives. The player needs to commit units, to take them from you.

 

The DA detachment is for people who play the game and want to win. It's not about kill the opponents units even harder. You got Oath of Moment for that.

[Arkhanist]

15 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Blade guard are likely going to 4 wounds. 3 wounds base +1 for storm shield.

 

Possibly; the "Astartes Shield" for deathwatch still provides a 4++. For units that already have an invulnerable, e.g. terminators and captains, giving them +1 wound instead seems to be the usual outcome, but for normal bladeguard they might not.

[spessmarine]

All those detachments read like faction rules to me. Per discussion elsewhere, index might be playing it simple. Codex will have OoM swapped by Vows/Saga/etc. 

 

[KnightofSigismund]

So, the bolt rifle, it doesn’t have assault or heavy beside it. Is that because it’s just a little digital mock up? 

[Orange Knight]

10 minutes ago, KnightofSigismund said:

So, the bolt rifle, it doesn’t have assault or heavy beside it. Is that because it’s just a little digital mock up? 

 

I imagine it's different when used by the Death Company Intercessors?

 

Mastery of the weapon and all that. The same guns can have different rules when used by different units in this edition.

[Arkhanist]

10 minutes ago, KnightofSigismund said:

So, the bolt rifle, it doesn’t have assault or heavy beside it. Is that because it’s just a little digital mock up? 

 

Definitely wouldn't be the first time WHC made a mistake in a preview, or it's maybe possible it's intentional, I dunno, because Death Company think they're Sanguinius and he wouldn't know what to do with a bolt rifle since he died 10,000 years prior to their introduction... It's not exactly a popular unit anyway, rifle DC primarily exists because they didn't have assault intercessors in 8th edition but decided to do a primaris version of DC anyway. I'm assuming it's most likely a typo, but if not, meh.

[mel_danes]

I think Knight has it.

Ravening madmen are not likely to sit still and aim really good, or steady their aim as they sprint headlong into the enemies lines.

Hence not having the same rules as standard Intercessors bolt rifles.

[ChargingSoll]

I think detachments will be hard to gauge as each have unique strategems and enhancements. So while the army rule might be not as good as others they could make up for it with strong enhancements and strats. 

 

Also have we seen an enhancements yet. 

 

Edit - Also The ancient adds an OC to the terminator command squad so they will be rocking 2 OC 24/7

Edited June 1, 2023 by ChargingSoll
Info

[prava]

3 hours ago, bigtrouble said:

I am absolutely floored at those Dark Angels previews. Finally grim resolve has meaning and objective control terminators is a real thing! Also, hilarious that the narthecium is both a special wargear and a chainfist.

 

The Lion is an absolutely savage datasheet. Not so much on the offense, but defensively he is pretty scary. Turns off strats, wound roll modifiers, 3+ invuln? That Emperor’s shield is not just a toy!

 

I think I might cry.

 

 

 

The LION not so good on the offense?!?!?!?!?!? The what? It is probably the best offensive melee profile we have seen yet. You will be able to count with one hand the amount of units that could charge him and not get destroyed before doing any damage. And then, the amount of units that could kill him is very, very slim.

 

No, he is a monster in CC.

 

2 hours ago, Rune Priest Jbickb said:

Im really struggling with the space wolf one. Its so fun and characterful, but compared to just the 4 previewed here its clearly the weakest as you don't have 100% control over the abilities you get. Plus you need to bring alot of characters to get use out of this which will likely be expensive points wise. I think its a bit of a miss sadly. You basically start with 0 detachment bonus, and each one you unlock is worth about half a detachment bonus. So maybe by Turn 3 you have a whole detachment bonus. If it had an always active ability like +1 charge and advance and then this set of rules i might be more on board but this is a bit meh for me

 

The SW is garbage. The requirements are so hard to get you will be half the game without anything.

 

1 hour ago, Khornestar said:

And I suppose one can’t guarantee that using the gladius allows a chapter to use its chapter-specific keyworded units, but my assumption is that they’re fair game.

 

I would assume that units that do not appear on the SM CODEX can't be used there. Can you imagine LION on a Gladius detachment?

 

1 hour ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Blade guard are likely going to 4 wounds. 3 wounds base +1 for storm shield.

 

Nah. Shileds seem to work like this. Do you have a 4+ invuln save? If yes, get +1 wound. If not, get 4+ invuln save.

 

So I would expect the BG to be 3+/4++ 3 wounds.

 

47 minutes ago, spessmarine said:

All those detachments read like faction rules to me. Per discussion elsewhere, index might be playing it simple. Codex will have OoM swapped by Vows/Saga/etc. 

 

 

That would mean making a 360 on everything. We will know once the DA codex gets released.

[DemonGSides]

No enhancements yet.  I doubt any one given enhancement will be enough to make an army viable, because if it is, it'll feel like an auto-include.

[crimsondave]

2 minutes ago, prava said:

 

The LION not so good on the offense?!?!?!?!?!? The what? It is probably the best offensive melee profile we have seen yet. You will be able to count with one hand the amount of units that could charge him and not get destroyed before doing any damage. And then, the amount of units that could kill him is very, very slim.

 

No, he is a monster in CC.

 

 

The SW is garbage. The requirements are so hard to get you will be half the game without anything.

 

 

I would assume that units that do not appear on the SM CODEX can't be used there. Can you imagine LION on a Gladius detachment?

 

 

Nah. Shileds seem to work like this. Do you have a 4+ invuln save? If yes, get +1 wound. If not, get 4+ invuln save.

 

So I would expect the BG to be 3+/4++ 3 wounds.

 

 

That would mean making a 360 on everything. We will know once the DA codex gets released.

Not getting the Lion not good on offense either.  Who’s BETTER???  He’s a straight badazz.  His sheet actually matches the lore.

[DemonGSides]

3 minutes ago, prava said:

I would assume that units that do not appear on the SM CODEX can't be used there. Can you imagine LION on a Gladius detachment?

Nah, you'll be able to use the Gladius Strike Force with ANY Space Marines, regardless of their affiliation, and without unit restrictions.  Or at least that's how WarCom made it sound in the original page about the GSF.

 

3 minutes ago, prava said:

 

Nah. Shileds seem to work like this. Do you have a 4+ invuln save? If yes, get +1 wound. If not, get 4+ invuln save.

 

So I would expect the BG to be 3+/4++ 3 wounds.

 

This is what I would expect as well.

 

3 minutes ago, prava said:

That would mean making a 360 on everything. We will know once the DA codex gets released.

 

Nah, their golden rule in this edition is One in One Out, meaning that anything you put in takes something else away.  Meaning that when full codex's drop, most of the index rules are going to vanish, including these detachments and army rules we have now.

Now, I expect the Marines Codex will basically have Oaths of Moment as their Army rule?  Yes.  But they'll also have multiple other bespoke detachments to use, as well.  Just as DA will have a few months later, when they get upgraded from "Space Marines but slightly different" to full codex "Dark Angels".  This is what GW has been putting out into the world as the intent since the beginning of 10th edition information going out.

[Orange Knight]

7 minutes ago, prava said:

 

Nah. Shileds seem to work like this. Do you have a 4+ invuln save? If yes, get +1 wound. If not, get 4+ invuln save.

 

So I would expect the BG to be 3+/4++ 3 wounds.

 

The Bladeguard are hard to predict. Their shield might grant an invul, but they do already have Iron Halos....

[Sir Clausel]

I could actually see the bladeguard go for both 4++ and 4 wounds. But then get normal power swords. Then they will be true tanks and not deal so much damage.

[Captain Idaho]

17 minutes ago, crimsondave said:

Not getting the Lion not good on offense either.  Who’s BETTER???  He’s a straight badazz.  His sheet actually matches the lore.

 

Guilliman is better offensively, but I think the Lion would take him in one on one with the rules.

 

I actually think the 2 are suitably different which is cool. Both are still massively offensive but the slight differences are cool.

 

Does he have Cypher's pistols?

Edited June 1, 2023 by Captain Idaho

[MaximusTL]

overall, not as bad i was expecting. Im kinda miffed that BA lost +1 to wound, especially since it would be alot better in 10th with inflated toughness values. i really wish they got rid of the 'having charged this turn' restriction as well, my army ability shouldn't be lost if my opponent makes the charge instead. theres a lot of melee units right now, and for the most part they all have something that puts them ahead of blood angels. Hell, There's nothing blood angels can really do against the Lion. i hope Dante finally gets Damage 3 on his axe, as even Gabriel Seth has it now.

 

this is more me griping, but the Red thirst isn't something that a BA can turn off. It's an inherent part of them. If a dark angel needed to adopt hit-and-run tactics for a certain engagement, than they could put aside their grim tenacity in objective holding. But part of the blood angels lore is they don't get a choice in this. If only Corbulo knew the secret to conquering the Flaw was to adopt a different set of tactics!

 

one thing i haven't seen brought up, however: a detachment is more than just the trait. There will also be stratagems and relics, which haven't been previewed. those should also be impactful, and could influence people choosing Blue Blood Angels or whatnot: If the Space Wolves detachment has a strat that directly affects say their wolf riders, then it will have less value to anyone trying to cosplay as them. Or, for that matter, say a blood angels relic that buffs death company. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

18 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

The chapters do still exist because you can't mix and match units with different faction keywords. 

 

The paint on the army doesn't matter, but in other ways it's even more restrictive. The Lion and Guilliman can't join forces in the same army, for example.

The paint never mattered.

there was never a rule that said you couldn’t have a blue blood angel successor with upside down omegas for their chapter badge.

 

18 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

I think the Blood Angels and Black Templars have the best faction rules from the ones shown. Perhaps even better than the Doctrines?

 

I will admit that I like how thematic the factions are. The Dark Angel detachment is also very strong, but it doesn't jump out as much because it's based around holding objectives. We need more experience with the game, but if Battle Shock is as plentiful then they might be one of the best.

Red thirst got nerfed pretty hard and in my experience wasn’t particularly strong as it was.

[bigtrouble]

45 minutes ago, crimsondave said:

Not getting the Lion not good on offense either.  Who’s BETTER???  He’s a straight badazz.  His sheet actually matches the lore.

Let me rephrase: his offense is as expected. I am amazed that they gave him the defensive profile they did. Fights first is as much a component of defense as it is offense.

 

EDIT: you basically can’t go anywhere near him or he wrecks you, and you have to shoot him with weapons that have devastating wounds and anti-monster 4+ or he will laugh it off.

Edited June 1, 2023 by bigtrouble

[Arkangilos]

19 minutes ago, MaximusTL said:

overall, not as bad i was expecting. Im kinda miffed that BA lost +1 to wound, especially since it would be alot better in 10th with inflated toughness values. i really wish they got rid of the 'having charged this turn' restriction as well, my army ability shouldn't be lost if my opponent makes the charge instead. theres a lot of melee units right now, and for the most part they all have something that puts them ahead of blood angels. Hell, There's nothing blood angels can really do against the Lion. i hope Dante finally gets Damage 3 on his axe, as even Gabriel Seth has it now.

 

this is more me griping, but the Red thirst isn't something that a BA can turn off. It's an inherent part of them. If a dark angel needed to adopt hit-and-run tactics for a certain engagement, than they could put aside their grim tenacity in objective holding. But part of the blood angels lore is they don't get a choice in this. If only Corbulo knew the secret to conquering the Flaw was to adopt a different set of tactics!

 

one thing i haven't seen brought up, however: a detachment is more than just the trait. There will also be stratagems and relics, which haven't been previewed. those should also be impactful, and could influence people choosing Blue Blood Angels or whatnot: If the Space Wolves detachment has a strat that directly affects say their wolf riders, then it will have less value to anyone trying to cosplay as them. Or, for that matter, say a blood angels relic that buffs death company. 

Yeah, I am pretty satisfied with what I’ve seen, but I would have preferred OoM replaced with the Red Thirst and have something like a Flaw Tokens earned by killing enemies that could be applied to units to represent them falling to the thirst as it went on. Even if it came with a negative trait (like in 3rd)

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

24 minutes ago, MaximusTL said:

overall, not as bad i was expecting. Im kinda miffed that BA lost +1 to wound, especially since it would be alot better in 10th with inflated toughness values. i really wish they got rid of the 'having charged this turn' restriction as well, my army ability shouldn't be lost if my opponent makes the charge instead. theres a lot of melee units right now, and for the most part they all have something that puts them ahead of blood angels. Hell, There's nothing blood angels can really do against the Lion. i hope Dante finally gets Damage 3 on his axe, as even Gabriel Seth has it now.

 

this is more me griping, but the Red thirst isn't something that a BA can turn off. It's an inherent part of them. If a dark angel needed to adopt hit-and-run tactics for a certain engagement, than they could put aside their grim tenacity in objective holding. But part of the blood angels lore is they don't get a choice in this. If only Corbulo knew the secret to conquering the Flaw was to adopt a different set of tactics!

 

one thing i haven't seen brought up, however: a detachment is more than just the trait. There will also be stratagems and relics, which haven't been previewed. those should also be impactful, and could influence people choosing Blue Blood Angels or whatnot: If the Space Wolves detachment has a strat that directly affects say their wolf riders, then it will have less value to anyone trying to cosplay as them. Or, for that matter, say a blood angels relic that buffs death company. 

They kinda can, kinda can’t.

 

can a BA make the thirst just not be a thing any more? No.

they do spend their whole lives keeping it in check, and the longer they live typically the better they get at controlling the urges.

if the BA couldn’t turn off the thirst in some fashion, then they would just be constantly rushing headlong into battle in order to drink blood, and eventually turning into giant monsters.

5 minutes ago, Arkangilos said:

Yeah, I am pretty satisfied with what I’ve seen, but I would have preferred OoM replaced with the Red Thirst and have something like a Flaw Tokens earned by killing enemies that could be applied to units to represent them falling to the thirst as it went on. Even if it came with a negative trait (like in 3rd)

Please no more tokens or any other form of accounting.

 

the amount of book keeping involved in this game is what I don’t like. 
i don’t like having to keep track of primary points, secondary points, command points, the game will get even less fun if I also have to remember to keep track of tokens as well.

[DemonGSides]

25 minutes ago, MaximusTL said:

overall, not as bad i was expecting. Im kinda miffed that BA lost +1 to wound, especially since it would be alot better in 10th with inflated toughness values. i really wish they got rid of the 'having charged this turn' restriction as well, my army ability shouldn't be lost if my opponent makes the charge instead. theres a lot of melee units right now, and for the most part they all have something that puts them ahead of blood angels. Hell, There's nothing blood angels can really do against the Lion. i hope Dante finally gets Damage 3 on his axe, as even Gabriel Seth has it now.

 

this is more me griping, but the Red thirst isn't something that a BA can turn off. It's an inherent part of them. If a dark angel needed to adopt hit-and-run tactics for a certain engagement, than they could put aside their grim tenacity in objective holding. But part of the blood angels lore is they don't get a choice in this. If only Corbulo knew the secret to conquering the Flaw was to adopt a different set of tactics!

 

one thing i haven't seen brought up, however: a detachment is more than just the trait. There will also be stratagems and relics, which haven't been previewed. those should also be impactful, and could influence people choosing Blue Blood Angels or whatnot: If the Space Wolves detachment has a strat that directly affects say their wolf riders, then it will have less value to anyone trying to cosplay as them. Or, for that matter, say a blood angels relic that buffs death company. 

 

Eh, there's literally a litany of examples of Blood Angels conquering the Red Thirst for short periods; Dante's entire existence has been the struggle of keeping the Thirst in check, going so far as to try to starve the thirst and almost killing himself in the process.  So no, it can't be "turned off", but it can be repressed at the right moment.  It's the Black Rage that can't be turned off at all and (Besides two VERY NOTABLE EXCEPTIONS) has had no one "come back" from it.

That being said, I also wish we still had +1 to wound, but I think as far as SM go, we should be pretty happy about what we got.

And yeah, I think the enhancements and strategems are gonna put to pasture any attempt to shoe-horn your Codex-Compliant guys into Non-Codex SM.

 

6 minutes ago, Arkangilos said:

Yeah, I am pretty satisfied with what I’ve seen, but I would have preferred OoM replaced with the Red Thirst and have something like a Flaw Tokens earned by killing enemies that could be applied to units to represent them falling to the thirst as it went on. Even if it came with a negative trait (like in 3rd)

 

This was never going to happen.  GW has stated from the beginning that for Index 10th Edition, most Space Marine flavors would hew close to similar as opposed to bespoke.  Something like this (Which i also like your idea, some way to show that they are regressing back to the heresy over a battle could be VERY cool and gimmicky for the BA) would be more likely to show up in a Codex later down the road.

[Medicinal Carrots]

Is it just me, or do these effectively bring back the "Space Marines Plus" problem of old editions where divergent chapters were supplements? E.G. either of the Angels can do anything a baseline marine chapter can, plus they have extra units all their own in 2 of the available detachments, and maybe more options in existing units that other chapters don't get. Aside from special characters in a Gladius (of which some chapters may only have 1 or 2), there doesn't seem to be any mechanical reason to play a compliant chapter over a non-compliant one.

[Sete]

4 hours ago, Blight1 said:

So another army gets army wide FNP and deathguard continue to be very sad.

Maybe you guys should...Uphold the Honour of the Emperor :D

 

After a proper reading on the meager preview, I can say I'm quite happy with it, especially sword Bros. Extra wound, nifty rule to deal with hordes or elites, MC Power Weapons, the elite unit it should be.

Now I just want flexibility for primaris crusader squads. Choosing power weapon instead of fist, choice on how many neophytes I can take. 

 

Would have liked to see the EC previewed but alas I must wait.

 

 

 

[burningsky25]

2 hours ago, Arkhanist said:

 

Possibly; the "Astartes Shield" for deathwatch still provides a 4++. For units that already have an invulnerable, e.g. terminators and captains, giving them +1 wound instead seems to be the usual outcome, but for normal bladeguard they might not.

 

I'm hoping they finally figure out how to properly differentiate between Sternguard, Vanguard, Bladeguard - especially the latter two, by making the choice between fast and heavy hitting, or slower but more durable.  If Storm Shields give invulnerable then VV are just flying BG, but if it's just +1W instead, then I think we actually will have 3+ 3/4W Vanguard, and 3+,4++, 4W Bladeguard.  In this case Invulnerable coming from the Iron Halo; I don't think there's any reason that shouldn't be the case.  At least I'm hoping that's how it shakes out, it would better differentiate the units strengths and weaknesses.