SW Faction Focus

[Valerian]

Detachment Rule:

 

 

Hounds of Morkai datasheet

 

 

Edited June 1, 2023 by Valerian
Cleaning up the format

[Wolf Guard Dan]

Morkai’s Howl seems like an interesting tactical ability. I would expect Reivers to get something similar without the psyker parts.

 

I’m not thrilled about the detachment ability. It’s likely their way of keeping sagas for us. Most of them seem hard to accomplish that you can’t really plan for it to be part of your game plan. I’ll likely start with using the Gladius detachment until I learn the mechanics of the edition.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Ok so the good parts of that detachment ability are:

1) its characterful as all heck 

2) if you get all of them off its alot of quality abilities.

 

The bad parts:

1) Only characters trigger these rules

2) You get nothing until they are triggered

3) Each ability is about half a detachment rule based on others we have seen, so you need to trigger 2 to get a whole detachment ability and several are pretty difficult to accomplish until at least turn 2.

 

Overall I'm torn. Its so fun and characterful, but compared to just the 4 previewed here its clearly the weakest as you have no real control over the abilities you get. Plus you need to bring alot of characters to get use out of this which will likely be expensive points wise. I think its a bit of a miss sadly. If it had an always active ability like +1 charge and advance and then this set of rules i might be more on board but this is a bit meh for me.

 

Hounds are looking interesting, might be worth a take if psykers are taking over your meta. They will wreck Grey Knights and Tsons, tricky to justify in an all comer list unless armies like that prove to be dominant. This is where 40k could use a sideboard lol.

[Guest Triszin]

So wolf sagas can stack.

 

So you could if lucky, have sustained hits+ lethal by t2

 

Saga of majesty is easy trigger, likely t1 to boost OC army wide, meaning better point taking.

 

Saga of the bear also seems easy, bit seems like a t4 thing,

 

Saga of beast Slayer or warrior born are def t2-3

Edited June 1, 2023 by Triszin

[DanPesci]

As much is its ok they kept the sagas in, I really dont like that theyve done it this way. They could have just been enhancement choices for us.

 

As WGD says above, you cant plan around it, and you may see ZERO benefit from it all game (ie Your opponent can just keep away from characters or kill them).

If there's nothing else to let us add:  a. more characters than usual, or b. enhancement options to make our characters super mobile/scary.....the SW one certainly seems to be the dud of the bunch.

 

BA - +1 Attack and Strength on the charge ALL GAME

DA - Cant drop below 1 OC, ALL GAME

DW - Choose one powerful ability a turn ALL GAME

SW - Charge your characters towards the enemy and hope you achieve maybe one bonus by T2-3

 

I would have much preferred to keep some form of the +1 to hit in combat/heroically intervening units over this. 

 

I wish theyd stop trying to make hounds of morkai happen and would have much preferred to see how grey hunters are going to work (did ANYONE play HoM last edition?). But at least they seem kinda usable now when not facing psykers (the howl ability is good, and their knives are devastating wounds all the time)

 

Trying to stay positive though, at least we have the gladius detachment to fall back on (I think, I presume this wont restrict SW units/characters?), and maybe the brunt will more be in our datasheets for Grey Hunters, Wolf Guard etc....

[DanPesci]

35 minutes ago, Triszin said:

So wolf sagas can stack.

 

So you could if lucky, have sustained hits+ lethal by t2

 

Saga of majesty is easy trigger, likely t1 to boost OC army wide, meaning better point taking.

 

Saga of the bear also seems easy, bit seems like a t4 thing,

 

Saga of beast Slayer or warrior born are def t2-3

 

 

Although you are right in that they can stack, and potentially become very powerful... im not really sure theyre as easy to do as you say if you have any sort of savvy opponent.

 

Majesty - has to be an objective in your opponents deployment zone under your control and with a character next to it....so not sure how you're getting that T1 (unless theres something ive misread)

 

Warrior Born & Beastslayer - Have to kill a character/monster/vehicle with your character. Again very specific and easy to counterplay. Most characters will now also be hidden in full units too  (e.g.  no way you are getting more than one of these by T2  unless your opponent feeds you characters and vehicles - its not like we have shooty characters).

 

Bear - Have one of your characters lose over half health but stay alive. Doable, but  risky and could well either die or not lose enough wounds to trigger. Having to damage your own units to get bonuses is not great, but I feel this one will actually 'accidentally' come up more than the rest.

 

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Overall I'm torn. Its so fun and characterful, but compared to just the 4 previewed here its clearly the weakest as you have no real control over the abilities you get. Plus you need to bring alot of characters to get use out of this which will likely be expensive points wise. I think its a bit of a miss sadly. If it had an always active ability like +1 charge and advance and then this set of rules i might be more on board but this is a bit meh for me.

 

 

Agreed at least it still feels fun and fluffy. I guess the one hope here is that we actually have a 2-part detachment rule and this is only half of it (ie I think nids had a 2 parter), but as none of the other chapters seem to have 2 either, im not gonna hold out hope! My 2nd army is admech so I appear to be starting 10th with 2 of the worst detachment abilities....hard mode here we go haha!

 

 

Edited June 1, 2023 by DanPesci

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

46 minutes ago, Triszin said:

So wolf sagas can stack.

 

So you could if lucky, have sustained hits+ lethal by t2

 

Saga of majesty is easy trigger, likely t1 to boost OC army wide, meaning better point taking.

 

Saga of the bear also seems easy, bit seems like a t4 thing,

 

Saga of beast Slayer or warrior born are def t2-3

 

How are you getting all the way across the board T1 with a character and holding an objective with it?

 

Bear is easy but requires you to take damage on a character, but have it not die. So you don't really have control over that lots of luck required to trigger that bad boy.

[Valerian]

Don’t forget that you can trigger Saga of the Bear with your own Plasma Pistol, or a Hazardous Psychic Power.  
 

Edited June 1, 2023 by Valerian

[Valerian]

Another thing to remember is that there aren't going to be any limits to how many Characters you can include in 10e.  Just like the olden days, it appears that their vision for Space Wolves is to be a very Character-heavy army.  Depending on points, of course, I can see that we might benefit from having different Characters attached to every single unit/Pack.  

 

It's entirely possible that we're going to have Wolf Lords, Battle Leaders, Rune Priests, Wolf Priests, and Iron Priests all coming out of the woodwork, *seeking their own sagas*.  
 

For Warrior Born, there is a 1CP Stratagem that you can use on your Characters to give them Precision attacks, allowing them to focus down enemy Characters hiding in bodyguard units, too.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Valerian

[DanPesci]

15 minutes ago, Valerian said:

Another thing to remember is that there aren't going to be any limits to how many Characters you can include in 10e.  Just like the olden days, it appears that their vision for Space Wolves is to be a very Character-heavy army.  Depending on points, of course, I can see that we might benefit from having different Characters attached to every single unit/Pack.  

It's entirely possible that we're going to have Wolf Lords, Battle Leaders, Rune Priests, Wolf Priests, and Iron Priests all coming out of the woodwork, *seeking their own sagas*.  
 

For Warrior Born, there is a 1CP Stratagem that you can use on your Characters to give them Precision attacks, allowing them to focus down enemy Characters hiding in bodyguard units, too.

 

Oh aye for sure, it really depends how much points characters are, and what they can actually do. But still not great to be able to potentially go a whole game with ZERO detachment bonus when everyone else just unlocks theirs for nothing.

 

Also hoping that 'character' Lone Wolves come back in some way. Or potentially that wolf guard attaching to greyhunters may gain 'character' depending on what way that works (if its still even an option!).

 

 

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Don’t forget that you can trigger Saga of the Bear with your own Plasma Pistol, or a Hazardous Psychic Power.  

 

Haha true, although if the wolf lord gets 6 wounds base he still cant trigger it (as would need to lose 4 wounds haha)

 

[Starlight_Wolf]

1 minute ago, DanPesci said:

 

Oh aye for sure, it really depends how much points characters are, and what they can actually do. But still not great to be able to potentially go a whole game with ZERO detachment bonus when everyone else just unlocks theirs for nothing.

 

Also hoping that 'character' Lone Wolves come back in some way. Or potentially that wolf guard attaching to greyhunters may gain 'character' depending on what way that works (if its still even an option!).

 

 

 

 

 

+1 To the lone wolves, I started in 5th and remember the fun had in running lone Marine running headlong up the board trying to find the biggest fight to get into, while not losing too much when he (usually) went down.

 

Now I type that out it seems very reminiscent of Dwarf Slayers from Fantasy or is that just me?

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

That all doesn't change the fact that we get nothing T1 (choosen at the end of a turn IF it was accomplished) and then have a massive character tax to accomplish benefits, unless we get really cheap characters to spread around (possible depending how pack leaders work but still unknown) Are there ways to help force these? Absolutely, but it doesn't change the fact that our detachment bonus requires tons of work to get benefit from, whereas every other detachment bonus is on from the beginning to the end, most without effort and those with effort are much simpler tasks overall.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

35 minutes ago, Valerian said:

Don’t forget that you can trigger Saga of the Bear with your own Plasma Pistol, or a Hazardous Psychic Power.  
 

By Russ, you’ve cracked the code. Lol

[TiguriusX]

Sad rule preview...

 

I will be taking gladius detachment instead bc a guaranteed advance + charge once a game holds more value than any of the sagas

 

Only question is whether our unique units get detachment locked

[Wolf Guard Dan]

Bjorn and Murderfang may be important to achieve some of these sagas. They will likely pack the punch to take out vehicles, monsters, and characters. Bjorn can achieve kills at range.

Warrior born may be the hardest to achieve. Sniper lord?
Majesty can probably be achieved by turn 2 or 3 when you start to lose models and need the extra OC. 
Bear will likely be achieved by plasma or psychic backlash. We finally have a reason to put plasma pistols on everything.

Beastslayer will probably just been Bjorn’s lascannon cleaning up something already damaged.

 

Well, there’s our planning. 

[Karhedron]

1 minute ago, TiguriusX said:

Only question is whether our unique units get detachment locked

 

I hope not, they did say any Chapter could use the GSF. If chapter-specific units cannot use it then what are Guilliman and Calgar going to use?

[TiguriusX]

Our lethality took a massive hit too

 

No +1 hit

No guaranteed exploding 6s (2x exploding for successor)

 

You wont realize how much we lost until you play a few games and fail to kill simple targets

 

10th is a nerf to what we know and can currently do.

 

Buckle up for a bumpy SW ride

[OldWherewolf]

As-is, I think sagas are fluffy, but completely screwed.  As AoW stated, the game is pretty much decided turn 2/3, and we'll be doing those without any buffs.  Any decent opponent will screen & feed SWs chaff for turn 1 & 2, so the earliest you'll get a saga is turn 3.

 

Unless...

• characters are dirt cheap or seriously OP for their points as we have to replace entire UNITS with MODELS, and those MODELS have to make up for the units lost, and not just augment the unit they are attached to.
• if WGPLs are characters, that opens possibilities

From most of the previews (primarchs excepted), the characters are attached to units to boost that character's survivability and then buff the unit.  With [PRECISON], characters are just going to get picked off (sooo worth bringing 1+ sniper units now).  

 

Also, it's sad to think that 1 Vindicare can seriously mess with our battle plan.

[lonewolf81]

Sorry guys but the SW detachment rules are super situational and super bad. Templars get to choose turn one some of the better effects of the sagas to be active from the get go and we have to crack the da vinci code in order to get one of them going. Everybody wants the rules to follow the lore of the army but that detachment is unplayable...really dissapointed... 

[Kallas]

1 hour ago, OldWherewolf said:

As AoW stated, the game is pretty much decided turn 2/3

I would disagree with this statement. 9e games? Yes. 10e is looking a lot less lethal overall, and with a stronger focus on objective play as far as I can tell. Personally, I think it's quite likely that more 10e games will come down to T4/5 than knowing who's won T2/3. It's still a big unknown, but that's my impression so far.

 

As for the Champions of Russ detachment...it's cool, and got some very strong buffs (Saga of Majesty is very potent) but it is definitely more fiddly. The emphasis on Characters is, IMO, what makes it the most difficult, but, with Bodyguard units inheriting the keywords of attached Leaders (otherwise some of the previewed rules don't work: eg, the Allarus Custodes rerolls vs Characters not working unless they're Lone Operatives, or once the Bodyguard are dead) then it should be relatively easier to acheive the conditions than I think some folks might think.

[Bulwyf]

I am not a violent person but I wish I could put my hands on whoever came up with this saga crap for SW. Yet another edition wasted behind "fluffy" rules that are literal garbage. How many editions are going to be WASTED on this useless mechanic? 

 

The SW detachment is literal garbage. There is no other way to say it. Every other army just gets rules for free because of their detachment. But SW? Naw, fam. You gotta go do X, Y and Z with ONLY characters and MAYYYYBBEEEE by turn 5  you get an actual rule. MAYBE. IF you live that long. IF the game goes that long. IF your opponent isn't a moron and doesn't just keep you from obtaining any of these sagas.

 

I was worried they would make the SW detachment so bad you had to either pick the generic one or go with another rules and count it as yours. Looks like my SW will be forced to use BT rules or BA rules now.

If anyone thinks games are not decided by turn 2 or turn 3 then I seriously question what games you are actually playing in real life. None of these sagas are going to be achievable IF AT ALL until T3 or later. the game is already decided by that point. Who cares if you get small useless buffs by then? 

[OldWherewolf]

I hope you're right, but I don't see squads getting the CHARACTER keyword.  If the game is less lethal, then we might not chew thru units until turn 3/4, instead of turn 2/3, meaning we get less buff, and we get them later.  Also, if you over/under-kill a squad protecting a character, you don't get the buff.  So the game being less lethal can really hurt SWs.

 

Now, if any of these can be done by a UNIT with a character attached, that's a possibility, and would be really good.  But I don't want to have to take Bjorn, Ragnar, Murderfang, Arjac and Lukas in a 750 point game.  

 

Agreed that Majesty is extremely potent, but at that point, it's "win more", as you pretty much already have to be winning to hold an objective in your opponents DZ.  Like, your opponent is not screening at all.  Now possibilities exist if you deep strike in your opponent's turn, and your opponent didn't screen away from an objective, and there is another unit you can pile into to get onto the objective, but there's nothing here you can create a battle plan around.  

 

BTs can react to their opponent.  SWs... go in to a game and the battle plan has to assume they'll never get a buff the entire game.  That's a bad spot to be in.  

 

 

 

[Kallas]

1 minute ago, Bulwyf said:

Every other army just gets rules for free because of their detachment.

You didn't see the CSM players complaining that they had to possibly maybe suffer MW when they use their buffs then? 

 

The big difference with the SW one is the potential to get multiple buffs - but with the drawback of needing Characters to activate things, it's definitely awkward.

Just now, OldWherewolf said:

I hope you're right, but I don't see squads getting the CHARACTER keyword. 

If Bodyguards don't get the Characters' keywords, then many abilities don't trigger.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

There is nothing in the leaked core rules that says an attached unit gains the character keyword, or any keyword for that matter. So I'm not sure that will be a thing...

[Starlight_Wolf]

8 minutes ago, Rune Priest Jbickb said:

There is nothing in the leaked core rules that says an attached unit gains the character keyword, or any keyword for that matter. So I'm not sure that will be a thing...

 

There was a Wolf specific rule a couple of editions back (can't remember which ofd the top of my head) which gave Wolf Guard the 'Character' trait/keyword when taken leading a squad, maybe it could be implemented like that? Though I assume we'll find out when our specific rules drop as opposed to the core rules