SW Faction Focus

[Kallas]

[EDIT: I was wrong, because the Sagas need a Character model to achieve it, not a Character unit, so even assuming the below is correct, Sagas are still difficult to achieve.]

 

1 hour ago, Rune Priest Jbickb said:

There is nothing in the leaked core rules that says an attached unit gains the character keyword, or any keyword for that matter. So I'm not sure that will be a thing...

If that is the case, then Slayer of Tyrants (Allarus Terminators) won't work vs Characters with Bodyguards:

Spoiler

 

Leaders

Spoiler

 

More specifically looking at how Precision works when combined with Purity of Execution (Sisters of Silence Prosecutors):

Spoiler

 

If a unit does not inherit the Psyker keyword of an attached Character, and is not itself a Psyker unit (eg, a Terminator Librarian joining a Terminator Squad) then the PoE rule cannot trigger; and Precision is specifically meant to target Characters only, so it serves no purpose unless both the Bodyguard and Leader are Psykers.

 

Even if the rules are messed up enough to not explicitly state it, I believe that we have enough to go on RAI here.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Kallas
Wording

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

However the leader rule breaks if the unit inherits the character keyword because they use the character keyword to distinguish between the attached unit and the character. If the unit gains the character keyword you cannot allocate any wounds to the unit per the leader rule as it explicitly states wounds cannot be allocated to a character model.

 

I believe alarus is intentional as that not the only use of the ability. As for the SoS I think the rule may be poorly written.

[Kallas]

1 minute ago, Rune Priest Jbickb said:

If the unit gains the character keyword you cannot allocate any wounds to the unit per the leader rule as it explicitly states wounds cannot be allocated to a character model.

The unit will have the Character keyword, but only the Leader model will have the keyword, so it won't break.

 

Though having said that, I just double checked the Sagas and it says "Character model", so I was looking at the wrong thing the whole time! In that case, it definitely seems to be a much weaker detachment rule.

[Bulwyf]

It is character MODEL. The actual character has to do any of these things. It is laughable how bad the detachment is. 

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Believe me I wanted your way to work i just don't see how it could possibly be.

[Valerian]

I'm really looking forward to seeing the specific Stratagems and Enhancements that are tied to the Champions of Russ Detachment.  Those will all be completely different than the ones tied to the Gladius Strike Force, and I wonder if they'll have something hidden within those facets of the Detachment that will interact well with (and perhaps facilitate) the ability to achieve these Sagas.

 

 

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

That is our redemptive hope at this point. I forget do we know if enhancements cost cp this time around?

[Valerian]

3 minutes ago, Rune Priest Jbickb said:

That is our redemptive hope at this point. I forget do we know if enhancements cost cp this time around?

 

We haven't been told, but I'm pretty sure they won't be, especially since nobody starts the game with any CP, and you'd probably be picking Enhancements during the list building phase.

 

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

That's good,  that was my least favorite thing to spend CP on. Here's hoping we get some good stuff there 

[OldWherewolf]

There is 1 strat, I don't remember if GW announced it or it's just in the leak, but it's called "Epic Challenge" for 1 CP.  It lets a character unit (?) get [PRECISION].  That's definitely going to help.  But CP is a very precious commodity in 10th, unless we get some rule to generate more.

 

the fundamental problem is that there are so many conditions to satisfy. 

• without PRECISION, dice can't go too hot or too cold
• we have to hold the opponent's home objective, meaning we've already won
• opponent can't have too many cheap screening units where we get bogged down fighting chaff
• opponent has to put their characters in harm's way
• we have to have the right tool to do the job in the right place at the right time. 
• going for buffs and going for the win may not be doing the same thing, and we may need the buffs to win, especially when we're fighting without the buffs, while our opponent has their buffs. 

there are... chances, like opponent not screening allowing a deepstrike.  But at the same time, I'd say an equal or higher probability exists that we get none of the buffs during the game, or we get them when they don't matter any more.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Plus requiring a strat to realistically get access to something everyone else has access to for free is kinda dumb.

[lonewolf81]

The only way this detachment could work in theory would be if any unit (not only characters) could complete a saga and because you always loose one round of buffs (the first round) and have to work to get them ( so they reward you with stacking buffs), you should be able to achieve multiple sagas in one round if you done the required deeds. 

For example if one of your SW units killed a vehicle or monster  and in the same round another friendly units was reduced to half strength, you should be able to get both lethal hits and 6+ FNP next round. 

The way they did it,  it's very difficult to achieve any of the sagas (if your opponent knows how to play the game) and even if you manage to do it, the buff is active from the following round and you can only achieve one per battle round so you wont be able to stack many of them (even if you are so lucky and managed to do the required deeds) because there are not enough battle rounds to do it.

 

all in all garbage :) 

Edited June 2, 2023 by lonewolf81

[Guest Triszin]

I did misread the majesty one, initially didn't see opponents deployment zone.

 

Having said that.

 

Bjorn will be the go to for these realistically.

 

A deep strike/stormwolf assault disembark is the best hope for majesty activation

 

They did confirm the codex will have multiple unique detachments for each faction.

Edited June 2, 2023 by Triszin

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Definitely waiting to see stormwolf rules. If it kept assault ramp and is reasonably priced points wise it might finally see play again.

[Karhedron]

Warrior Born might be achievable with a Phobos Captain (assuming his bolter has Precision). Take with some Eliminators to soften up a Character and then pop them with the Captain for a (relatively) easy activation (although it doesn't feel entirely fluffy).

 

Beastslayer will probably work best with Bjorn with TLLCs. Soften up something easy like a Rhino and then have Bjorn pop it.

 

Majesty seems really hard and if you manage to park a Character on your opponent's home objective, chances are you are winning anyway. 

 

Bear is also tricky as a Character has to lose >50% of their wounds but not die. It will probably happen reasonably often but almost impossible to plan for. Maybe take lots of cheap Characters with plasma pistols and hope you get "lucky" with overheats.

[Valerian]

Majesty might not be super hard, taking advantage of the Rapid Ingress stratagem with a very hard-hitting unit, like Wolf Guard Terminators with a Terminator Rune Priest Leader.

 

Bear, I think is just going to happen naturally in the first few turns; especially if you’re sending Characters forward to seek any of the other 3 Sagas.  Inevitably, Characters are going to take some Wounds, so as long as they don’t get one-shot off the table, Bear is going to proc sooner or later. 

[Karhedron]

6 minutes ago, Valerian said:

Majesty might not be super hard, taking advantage of the Rapid Ingress stratagem with a very hard-hitting unit, like Wolf Guard Terminators with a Terminator Rune Priest Leader.

 

Rapid Ingress just lets you Deep Strike in your opponent's turn. You still have to stay outside of 9" of enemy units so unless the enemy has neglected to babysit their home Objective, it won't help more than normal Deep Striking I think.

[Valerian]

2 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

Rapid Ingress just lets you Deep Strike in your opponent's turn. You still have to stay outside of 9" of enemy units so unless the enemy has neglected to babysit their home Objective, it won't help more than normal Deep Striking I think.

The difference is that with normal Deep Strike you’re stuck with attempting a 9” Charge, whereas with Rapid Ingress you’re already on the table at the start of your turn, so you get your Movement phase to get closer to the Objective, then charge in 4 inches, instead of 9.  
 

Significantly easier to take an enemy Objective and proc Saga of Majesty using that stratagem than without. 

[Karhedron]

20 minutes ago, Valerian said:

The difference is that with normal Deep Strike you’re stuck with attempting a 9” Charge, whereas with Rapid Ingress you’re already on the table at the start of your turn, so you get your Movement phase to get closer to the Objective, then charge in 4 inches, instead of 9.  
 

Significantly easier to take an enemy Objective and proc Saga of Majesty using that stratagem than without. 

 

Very true. The only downside is that you have to weather a turn of enemy attacks before you do so. Still, a squad of TH/SS Termies would be pretty hard to shift.

[Valerian]

Yep, 4 Wound Terminators are going to be a challenge for anyone to degrade without dedicating some serious firepower. 

[Valerian]

By the way, Enhancements were confirmed to cost points, rather than CP.  this came out in one of the recent Twitch streams. 

[TiguriusX]

2 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

Very true. The only downside is that you have to weather a turn of enemy attacks before you do so. Still, a squad of TH/SS Termies would be pretty hard to shift.

Rapid ingress is gonna be entirely dependent on terrain and whether your opponent is castling behind walls or actively setting up screens and picket units

 

Reminds me of early 8th edition.

 

If people dont adjust their play style you can pound them.

 

Good players in competitive games it wont work...but if you build to take advantage of the unit trading it forces you can pivot to plan B

[Wolf Guard Dan]

Someone in the design team saw our 3rd edition rule of having a character for every 500 points and tried to make it our detachment bonus in tenth. Or was it for every 750 points? I don’t remember but it’s our identity now. 

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

15 hours ago, Valerian said:

By the way, Enhancements were confirmed to cost points, rather than CP.  this came out in one of the recent Twitch streams. 

Thank goodness, much easier to balance when they cost a variable resource. Are you only allowed one? Or did they not say.

[Tokugawa]

8 minutes ago, Rune Priest Jbickb said:

Thank goodness, much easier to balance when they cost a variable resource. Are you only allowed one? Or did they not say.

Max 1 per character, max 3 per army.