Tacitus Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 Sicarius and Cassius can lead Primaris Sternguard - are they crossing the Rubicon? Sicarius isn't that impressive to me, but I've also never really liked the guy. Cassius may be one of the few ways to make a Vanguard Vet squad good/pay off - but only if they didn't charge that turn. Tiggy is about the same, but I'm disappointed he didn't keep the 4++ Bastion power. Calgar is still a CP Farm - which is now rare and more potent than before - his Victrix are no longer optional and can't be taken for other characters - and they lost their 3++ Ultima SS - which was expected. Chronus still can't drive a Primaris Tank - but Primaris can go in a Land Raider so eh. Tellion putting Sustained Hits on Snipers feels kind of nice or making the Missle Launcher Precision. Tyrranic War Vets are really bad, bringing back Preferred Enemy. Ventris Deep Striking Calgar, Victrix, and a Beefy Unit is so mean it's obvious. He's an Imperial Fist but I still have to mention Tor Garadon can win a 1v1 vs a Knight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruor Vault Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 Calgar + LT or Bladeguard Ancient in a Raider with 6 Bladeguard seems like an early favorite. Ventris with 10 Deepstriking Sternguard also looks nice, though if points are favorable its going to be REALLY hard to beat out 2-3 max size units of terminators lead by chaplains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonjacob Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 I think all the character have a place but they really missed the mark with sicarius. Brings a lightning assault to your force, more like play keep away with what sicarius can lead. Lethal on the sword isn't cool given overlap between lieutenant, vanguard, why not the devastating wounds? I do appreciate the 6 to move in enemies movement. The scout move seem rather silly given the only dedicated transport it can be use on is rhino / razor back. It's not like sternguard can get in either of the former because of tacticius. Tacticals are 10 strong so why bother with a rhino? It like you meant to put him inside of a command squad buy why? Giving the assault rule to range weapons is good and all, but the weapon choice i could only see it really working on is are pistols, and heavy weapons. I would like to think vanguard would have been a good fit.GW need to do better with Sicarius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 (edited) • Chronus seems a little too powerful if I'm honest. Making a tank unable to be targeted by shooting over 12" away is going to make Land Raiders delivering powerful assault units very hard to stop. He's also going to make a Predator a nasty little gunboat, which can't be targeted at the back of the table. **** edit**** false alarm. He's not broken at all. Misread the rule and missed "disembarks". He only gets Lone Operative when solo from a vehicle, not in it! Let me adjust my position - hes still making any vehicle a powerful gunboat, ideally something without twinlinked weapons. Very good choice to make a Predator great at its job. I'm thinking Destructor as it gets better against infantry but can threaten vehicles with a rerolling S9. • Tigurius I'd say is alright but not an auto include anymore. You'd only really take him for his -1 to hit and whilst that has its uses, I think he'll get skipped for more specific combinations with characters and units. • Calgar is good. He's a solid beat stick and boosts the army with Command Points though a Captain is arguably better because of his free Strategum ability. Question is, will you put him in a melee unit or Sternguard squad for a solid centre and balanced approach? He'll make a lot of lists I feel. • Sicarius is alright but fundamentally outclassed by a Captain. He can join a squad and move out of charge range more easily, or get a footslogging unit up the table quickly. Just a solid leader to a Sternguard squad but you'd be sacrificing Rites of Battle from another Captain and Finest Hour, which again, are likely better for your army. Probably a miss for most people. • Cassius is great charging from a Land Raider with an Assault squad without jump packs. Lots of Devastating Hits and allowing them to attack again on death is nice. He can make a good few lists there. • Telion is alright. Does boost up Scouts and is a reasonable sniper. Giving Lethal Hits to a large Sniper shot could be nasty. • Ventris is alright but suffers from much the same problems as Sicarius - a normal Captain would arguably serve you better. • Special mention to Tyrannic War Veterans... busted against Tyranids, particularly monsters, yet pointless against everyone else. Edited June 10, 2023 by Captain Idaho Thanks for update Helias_Tancred 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Ming Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 Calgar lost his half damage, an attack and a wound? Maybe I'm reading that wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Emperor Ming said: Calgar lost his half damage, an attack and a wound? Maybe I'm reading that wrong He has but he's definitely gotten more offensive with his Damage 3 fists. Just sheer number of wounds to wade through makes him difficult to kill I reckon. The loss of a wound is annoying but he comes with 2 body guard and joins a unit. Edited June 10, 2023 by Captain Idaho ZeroWolf and Emperor Ming 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacitus Posted June 10, 2023 Author Share Posted June 10, 2023 3 hours ago, Captain Idaho said: He has but he's definitely gotten more offensive with his Damage 3 fists. Just sheer number of wounds to wade through makes him difficult to kill I reckon. The loss of a wound is annoying but he comes with 2 body guard and joins a unit. Two bodyguard AND FNP. The Gauntlets are now PISTOL and -3 AP D3 compared to a regular -2 D2 fist. As for Rites of Battle - that's mostly a 6 of one half dozen of the other. You just have to make sure your Captain(s) use their Strats second for the Pete and Repeat effect. I'm disappointed the Victrix are both now required, and Calgar only - I gave a couple to Guilliman in a lot of lists. Where do you see Chronus having Stealth? Quote Chronus seems a little too powerful if I'm honest. Making a tank unable to be targeted by shooting over 12" away is going to make Land Raiders delivering powerful assault units very hard to stop. He's also going to make a Predator a nasty little gunboat, which can't be targeted at the back of the table. As an aside I have a sneaking suspicion a lot of people are thinking about lists they don't realize are going to have 10 (BIG) characters in it. Right now, I'm still assuming bodies are still king, but its going to be very tough to fit everything in 2K for a while now because we have to take our old lists, add in the Land Raiders, and the multiple captains which appear to no longer have a 0-1 restriction.... Captain Idaho 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 Lol I misread the "disembarks" part. Well I didn't misread it, just missed it I'll adjust my first post. Still decent though as makes a Predator super dangerous. Even a Destructor can hurt vehicles either those 6 S9 shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacitus Posted June 10, 2023 Author Share Posted June 10, 2023 IF I'm not going Land Raider I'd be more inclined to go Whirlwind for INDIRECT 4+ S8 -2 D2 or Vindicator for T11, 2+ and 4+ S14 -3 D6 shots for his 2+ BS I REALLY want to put him in a Repulsor/Executioner. Captain Idaho 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 Both Tanks are amazing. I think the Whirlwind will find its way back into my lists lately and I want at least 2 Vindicators! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacitus Posted June 10, 2023 Author Share Posted June 10, 2023 9 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said: Both Tanks are amazing. I think the Whirlwind will find its way back into my lists lately and I want at least 2 Vindicators! I think I'll run out of points before I get there. Captain, Apothecary, Ancient, Champion, and 6BGV in a Pod is going to Cha-Ching pretty quickly. Even faster in a Land Raider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 (edited) You mean "even cooler" of course Yeah I'm in the position of wanting it all. I want at least a pair of Land Speeder Tornadoes too, so they can fly over things, dish out Mortal Wounds, then shoot Assault Cannons and dish out Mortal Wounds... Edited June 10, 2023 by Captain Idaho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Creature Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 I’m definitely planning to run a Calgar bomb… rate him over the Gman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 Only kidding, he is very good and though they're different, I think people will fall into 2 camps on that one. I like Guilliman because he's this utilitarian character in the centre of the army, but Calgar can create quite the Death-Star. Sea Creature 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCE1981 Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 6x Eradicators with Gravis Captain and Biologis. Plus Desolators with a Lieutenant. Not sure which group will get Bolter Discipline. ZeroWolf and Sea Creature 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 We'll do an Ultramarines combos I think Sea Creature 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCE1981 Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 Lol, Honour Vehement buffs the Powerfist AND the extra attacks weapon on a Captain in Gravis Armor for an additional 2-4 attacks and 1-2 Str on each. Sea Creature 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonjacob Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 Eating my words from earlier. Sicarius can help double up on out phase movement for objective denial and cheeky grabs. Tactical Squad can help get in and out of a fight. No need for lieutenant support but bolter disapline could be ideal. Sicarius, Sternguard and bolter disapline ancient could be a highly mobile and difficult to pin down unit. A good play for a flanks perhaps or backfield disruptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDops Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 Telion with a full strength squad of sniper scouts sounds like it would be an absolute hate magnet. Being able to move and have scouts hit in 2+ while not being able to be shot at unless the shooting model is within 12" with a -1 to hit if they can? Throw in some sustained hits for some bonus hits and it probably won't be cheap it is a unit that could do some work and survive far longer than they should Captain Idaho 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacitus Posted June 11, 2023 Author Share Posted June 11, 2023 8 hours ago, Captain Idaho said: Only kidding, he is very good and though they're different, I think people will fall into 2 camps on that one. I like Guilliman because he's this utilitarian character in the centre of the army, but Calgar can create quite the Death-Star. Why do you have to choose? You can have both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 If I do that, I won't have any friends! Reckon that could be strong in some tournament set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacitus Posted June 11, 2023 Author Share Posted June 11, 2023 I think it "looks" worse than it is - that's going to be a lot of points you could have spent on bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 Like the old Star Dragon list concept for High Elves - either wrecks face and is a specialist build, or dies horribly. I agree, more bodies and choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacitus Posted June 12, 2023 Author Share Posted June 12, 2023 Oh I suspect once in a while I'm going to run both in some sort of theme list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helias_Tancred Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 On 6/10/2023 at 5:43 AM, Captain Idaho said: • Ventris is alright but suffers from much the same problems as Sicarius - a normal Captain would arguably serve you better. Just checking, but a Captain in gravis armor would be a much better improvement over Ventris, right? Sea Creature 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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