The Goonhammer Review

[Valerian]

https://www.goonhammer.com/the-goonhammer-review-the-space-wolves-index/

[Lionsbane]

So paid shills?

[Starlight_Wolf]

1 hour ago, Lionsbane said:

So paid shills?

 

I mean they list TWC as a 'top 5' unit, but also acknowledge that we're a) better off with Galdius and b) hamstrung fishing for sagas with no immediate army wide benefit that other armies get.

 

Not saying it's a balanced opinion, but they do acknowledge we have been sold short on a few elements at least, the 'ultramarines in light grey' comment was pretty on point tbf (Characters not with standing, since we do have nasty options, just some options to deliver them are 'eh')

[Dried]

6 minutes ago, Starlight_Wolf said:

 

I mean they list TWC as a 'top 5' unit, but also acknowledge that we're a) better off with Galdius and b) hamstrung fishing for sagas with no immediate army wide benefit that other armies get.

 

Not saying it's a balanced opinion, but they do acknowledge we have been sold short on a few elements at least, the 'ultramarines in light grey' comment was pretty on point tbf (Characters not with standing, since we do have nasty options, just some options to deliver them are 'eh')

I honestly think Thunderwolves cavalry can be quite good.
Yeah it has changed a lot and we have lost thunder hammers, but I think they still have their use.
With their +1D on charge and equiped with stormshields I can totally see them played with some characters.
For exemple if you are using theim with Logan on sled, he (and the cavalry) have +1D on his weapons when charging (even on bonus attacks), an he is protected with the cavalry. He was no joke, he is now REALLY scary.
Add a battle leader your attacks now auto wound on 6 and can move in the opponent phase if he's shooting on them you can move closer (once per battle but still).

[Karhedron]

Whether TWC are good with their new profile depends to some extent on their price. If they are cheap enough, they may make a decent fast attack and Character escort unit. I don't really feel they fulfil the shock-unit role of previous editions very well anymore.

 

I normally quite like Goonhammer's analyses but without points costs, I definitely feel they have jumped the gun here. TWC are less powerful than they were and will only be "good" if their price drops accordingly.

[Bouargh]

May be a little bit too early to pretend reviewing things properly, but there are indeed some generic convergences here:

 

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Space Wolves are now basically just blue marines with a Viking fetish  

 

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Wolf Guard with Jump Packs were a cornerstone unit of wolves through the entirety of two editions. [...] Removing these Wolf Guard was rough, then having them also completely nerf Vanguard Vets in the marine book essentially makes them not worth fielding until they allow some kind of upgraded weapon options again

 

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Unfortunately, though there’s some interesting stuff here, what made wolves feel unique and rewarding has mostly been removed from the book and the core rules, and until the Space Wolves codex drops it will feel a lot like playing ultramarines with Epic Heroes and units from Wolves tossed in for flavor.

 

We can debate about the very positive and optinistic closing warp-up of theirs, even if I may take it as I already stated elsewhere I was expecting the downgrading would have been worse. Yet I personnaly do not find any reconfort in the fact that another faction would be eventually worse than (my beloved) SW. Anyway I will still give SW a try (or more than one) but I am rather tempered.

 

But I would have rather getting a guarantee of being delivered with something playable/balanced by design. Would I dare saying that I feel that, once more, the design step has been skipped (OK, maybe not fully, but at least some serious portions of the consistency check have failed).

Aditionally, a lot of stuff we consider as being problematic are falling in a category we might consider being editing mistakes (GW, as a miniature and editing company, failing on editing datacards is indeed a potential issue). Should the editing part be solved, this would alredy be a good step ahead. But the key is that these errors we atribute to editing issues are really of this nature... 

[Lionsbane]

I agree I was probably a bit unfair with my comment. But their review is optimistic at best. 

Its true none of it means anything without points. I don't however foresee the points getting adjusted enough to make up for the slightly better chainswords they have. 

[CCE1981]

Space Wolves Venerable Dreadnoughts are incredible with re-roll 1s to hit and wound aura.  Add in an invulnerable save and they are even better.  Wulfen Dreadnoughts doing Mortal Wounds on the charge, Long Fangs can have 8x heavy weapons (5 Long Fangs, 2 servitors, Wolf Guard Pack Leader.  Plus I think Thunderwolf Cavalry, despite losing Thunderhammers is still Strong, add a Wolf Lord and Battle Lord and you get your Thunderhammer and Stormshield back.  Give Black Death to your Lord and it’s pretty reliable, Honour Vehement or Adept of the Codex if going with Gladius Task Force.

 

Does Champions of Russ hurt, yes.  However, I still see play.

[Lionsbane]

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Long Fangs can have 8x heavy weapons (5 Long Fangs, 2 servitors, Wolf Guard Pack Leader. 

Where are you seeing Servitors can join Long Fangs?

[Wolf Guard Dan]

I thought the review was probably the least they could say without outright panning the index. Still beats BoLS article on how to play space wolves that says Wulfen are a good way to get multi damage weapons. Hahah

“The Index could definitely have been MUCH better but we could be Votaan.  Nothing you can do about the index at this point so go forward with what we got and see how it plays out, I for one have a list I can’t wait to field. ”

 

 

 

[CCE1981]

1 hour ago, Lionsbane said:

Where are you seeing Servitors can join Long Fangs?

Servitors if joined to a Techmarine can join a unit that the Techmarine can join.  The Iron Priest has the Techmarine keyword and can join Longfangs.

[Lionsbane]

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Servitors if joined to a Techmarine can join a unit that the Techmarine can join.  The Iron Priest has the Techmarine keyword and can join Longfangs.

I didn't think he meant with a Iron Priest as then he might have listed an Iron Priest in there. Seems an expensive way to get two more HVY weapons but sure. 

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Its also worth noting that Goonhammer may have points already, and this may color their review. They get advance copies of stuff for reviewing so while they may not have outright said it is possible they know points and ranked units with that knowledge in hand either intentionally or not.

[Prot]

I'm probably not going to read Goonhammer's review. The thing I'm going to say here and probably won't be well received is.... nearly everyone I'm talking to thinks -their index- is going to fall below average. Nearly everyone.... it doesn't make sense.

 

What I'm getting from this is that everyone feels their favourite units have been turned down somewhat. (I know there are clear exceptions. I'm talking on the whole, overall)

 

With that in mind I do agree the Sagas are strangely difficult to pull off and honestly surprising to be the big rule for the detachment (Even in 9th it was more of a bonus thing you could do with your characters).

 

I do think the TWC datasheet is really good. Hammers got nerfed across the board, and I don't call fishing for 6's to wound a strategy. I think TWC will be far more usable than they were, and in 10th it is abundantly clear GW does NOT want a be all/end all unit that handles infantry/vehicles/monsters alike.  But this unit is fast, and scary on the charge to a large number of potential targets. 

 

I guess I still find a few things I really like about the Wolves, and I definitely agree some things suck. I won't deny it, but I remember this feeling in ... 7th edition (?) as well. And then the codexes came out and a lot of chapters/legions saw a full, better treatment.

[CCE1981]

I try to look at new editions or codices as something completely new.  Yeah it sucks that comparatively some units are worse off.  That is why I magnetize, my DIY Chapter Wulfen were put together as “Exemplars of the Chapter” plenty of opportunities to be used elsewhere.  

[Lionsbane]

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I guess I still find a few things I really like about the Wolves, and I definitely agree some things suck. I won't deny it, but I remember this feeling in ... 7th edition (?) as well. And then the codexes came out and a lot of chapters/legions saw a full, better treatment.

For one, I think the wolves are playable. Competitively I think they will be played in the Gladius Detachment rather than Champions of Russ. You just give up too much in the early game. I would be happy to be proven wrong. But for fun, I'll probably try and make Champions of Russ work a few times before giving up. TWC are usable, if the points are right. I mean sure, that can be said about anything. Most things I expect to be pointed closer to expectations than I do TWC.

The Codex is at LEAST a year away. That is a long time to live with sub par rules when the Edition only lasts 3 years. As long as people keep purchasing new editions every 3 years, GW will keep pushing them out that fast. 

But I think the most telling point in all of 10th edition is that some factions lost their melee weapons on bespoke units, and some didn't. Its almost like there were two different index writing teams that didn't speak to each other. This is by far the biggest problem. If everything bar Terminators had been reduced to +1 STR chainswords across all factions then I think there would be far less moaning about 'my faction sucks now'. Instead we see some factions keep 3damage melee weapons, and some factions keep entire units of 2 damage melee weapons, and some factions nerfed to +1 STR chainswords. 

[Prot]

Oh I think the points are right... 100 for 3, 200 for 6. These guys looked promising in the index, but at these points I am calling them a must have in my lists. 

 

Don't forget all of this is subject to change. We may have to wait a year + for a codex, but the points/unit amendments will very likely see an FAQ sooner rather than later.