Wh40k 10th Edition Tau Index

[TrawlingCleaner]

Guns-a-plenty

[Dark Legionnare]

Not a big fan of the drones system. Drone tokens per model is, to me, clunkier than the "add drones to unit" system ever was, by a mile.

The 8th ed system was crap/annoying, but a return to form in 9th of "Drones become part of their parent unit" was fine, and lovely.  For 10th, "merging a characters' picked drones with their unit" would be perfectly fine, because they can't leave the squad anyway.

Looking at the suits squads, having multiple drones possible per suit-team member that can variably differ across said suit-team members would be a jumbled mess of "tokens."  I can already feel myself being forced to just say "Every crisis suit in this team has a shield and gun drone" not wanting to deal with the possible mess/record-keeping.

Edited June 15, 2023 by Dark Legionnare

[Emperor Ming]

Loosing drones is a huge durability wack, so pts decreases should be expected

[Madao]

The weirdest thing about drones is that they are tokens, aside from actual tactical drones unit, when they are models.

[Oxydo]

Dear god, that was a painful read, and not just because of the many many probable errors.

 

Is this the most useless ability we've seen so far?

[acrozatarim]

7 minutes ago, Oxydo said:

Dear god, that was a painful read, and not just because of the many many probable errors.

 

Is this the most useless ability we've seen so far?

It's a toned down version of Devastating Wounds.

 

Honestly, we could do with a lot more instances of DW being turned into that instead.

[Oxydo]

2 minutes ago, acrozatarim said:

It's a toned down version of Devastating Wounds.

 

Honestly, we could do with a lot more instances of DW being turned into that instead.

It only works on his 2/3 attacks with BS3+ not the unit he leads. If it was the entire unit it would have been great.

Edited June 15, 2023 by Oxydo

[acrozatarim]

2 minutes ago, Oxydo said:

It only works on his 2/3 attacks with BS3+ not the unit he leads. If it was the entire unit it would have been great.

 Yeah, I know it's just on his attacks. It means he hits a bit harder than he would otherwise. There's lots of little powers like that on various minor leaders' sheets like this guy, nothing particularly wrong with it.

[Oxydo]

18 minutes ago, acrozatarim said:

 Yeah, I know it's just on his attacks. It means he hits a bit harder than he would otherwise. There's lots of little powers like that on various minor leaders' sheets like this guy, nothing particularly wrong with it.

 

Yes, since I've read all the index except the ones released today I am well aware of that most if not all leaders have a few abilities that affect themselves, but this is by far the most pointless one I've seen yet.

 

A bit harder? It will on average trigger every 3rd time he shoots if he hits twice every time, so maybe 2-3 per game. It's miniscule compared to the shooting the unit that he's leading is doing.

 

Even the much malingered DG Virion characters have better and more usable abilties. Or for instance the lowly Preacher, who only buffs himself once per game, has a more useful self-only-ability.

[Guest]

Exemplar of the Kauyon cracks me up. The best patient hunters are the least patient hunters, apparently.

[Madao]

What would you say on 3x6 Crisis Suits with commanders (coldstar/enforcer/farsight), everything packed with plasma, shields and shield drones for extra wounds (each blob is 46 wounds, T5, 3+/4++/6+++ with 1cp strat). Army filled up with about 8 piranhas for T1 anti-tank (and anti-anti-fly) alpha strike (each can shot 2 seeker missiles) and some anti-horde with drones and burst cannons?

[Indy Techwisp]

So...

Can Fire Warrior Shas'ui still have their Pulse Carbines like they could before?

[chapter master 454]

Something for playing the faction I have realised from reading the rules.

Taking even a single gun drone is a very important component of any unit you want to be an observer unit, as by having the gun drone they are equipped with Pulse Carbines which gives them an assault weapon and all you need is one assault weapon and the unit is now eligable to shoot which is important for being an observer, as if you aren't eligable you can't observe. So while maybe not the biggest deal, the extra movement could be helpful to get LoS on targets you want to get lit up.

Notably this may not be a big deal for some units, but for things like Stealth Suits who may want to get moving and grooving to get places quickly, having a Gun Drone + Marker Drone could be pretty good for them.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

Giving them a gun drone won't do that, but a Markerlight will. Assault weapons allow a Model to shoot after advancing, Markerlights allow a Unit to observe after advancing.

[chapter master 454]

While I didn't notice markerdrones do that, the fact is the only requirement for being an observer is eligable to shoot. The key here I am pointing out is that normally a unit become ineligable to shoot if it advances HOWEVER if you have a gun drone in the unit, it DOES make them eliable to shoot regardless of firing as the gun drone makes the person who has it counts as if they had an assault weapon and thus does confer that bonus.

 

Thus meaning by extension gun drones also offer the advance and observe benefit.

[chapter master 454]

So, not a lot of movement on the whole greater good front here. Just going to put up some thoughts from a couple of games.

 

Forge World units of the R'Varna and Y'Vahra are improved but more because their points aren't horrifically inflated, being costed the same as the Riptide helps and while they have merits sadly they just lack some needed power. The R'Varna guns feel like they need ether another pip of AP or 1 extra strength to be worth while and the Y'Vahra...well the flamer to be honest needs to be damage 2 again OR the EMP...sorry...Ionic Discharge Cannon needs something...otherwise it doesn't compete well against Riptides (who have a better Ion gun just outright) and the flamer doesn't compensate for that. Certainly having 10 auto-hits is nice but just doesn't cut mustard as of now I feel. Maybe testing with force using it with Overwatch, literally just having it run up and be an overwatch annoyance but even then...

Issue for these 2 units I find is that they don't really bring anything serious to the table we can't find elsewhere and for easier access. Certainly the toning down of how easy it was to wound things is a factor here, but I feel especially for the R'Varna that it could of retained something to make the guns worthwhile. They are fun to use and casually good pieces to field but don't expect them to terrorise.

 

On the other hand...the true terror of the index, the Senechal of Sass, the Duke of Disrespect and Feller of Feelings is the Ghostkeel. While it won't be amazing in all match-ups, this thing ha a TON of utility on top of respectable offence with what I can only call the most insulting amount of protection a unit of its size could have. The only thing it is missing is an Invulnerable save but I could argue it does have better.

To start with how we approach this thing, it has Lone Operative....this rule is fairly easy to understand but importantly having it on a unit that can have 36" main gun level firepower is kind of nuts. With T8 and a 2+ save, this thing can take a lot of small arms to the face fairly confidently that it may have just get close by incident, so that's a factor. Then even if you are firing at it...it has stealth for -1 to hit it at range...which is topped off by the final ability it has which is in its adaption of drones into 10th: twice per game, after you allocate an attack to it (so you have had to HIT it and WOUND it first) it can just change the weapons damage to 0...just ignored...Then it flys away at 10" movement and laughs the whole way...which coupled with the fact that the battlesuit support system lets it fall back and still shoot it another layer of it giving insulting gestures and various gang signs as it just does what it wants. Even in my testing games with it using a fusion collider...having immunity to ranged firepower UNTIL it was in range to do damage was quite potent...and this was me against another Tau as well with Riptides.

Ghostkeels stocks are on the rise with the Index as is.

 

Our Battlelines are also insanely good for their price points. 100 for Strikes and 115 for Breachers is actually really good, especially since Guardian Drones make them far tougher than most opponents would like to deal with. -1 to wound for ranged weapons going against them is a massive boon, with most other infantry they face on the field wounding them on 4+ at best with their guns while on the crack-back getting wounded on 3+. Cadres and Etherals also add a lot of value to these units and are so cheap to bring...you could considering your first 6 battleline options at +50 points because each of these add a lot. Personally feeling Cadres best fit in breachers taking a devilfish but I just like that, ultimately they still add damage to your pulse rifles putting out 20 shots up to 30" out which is nothing to sneeze at, etherals however giving back-line strike teams a 5+ FNP is often really annoying for opponents to shift. Put them in some cover and now you have a unit which is -1 to hit, has a 3+ save and a 5+ FNP and is constantly putting out plink damage each turn while also observing as needed, 150 points your opponent will loathe to shift if they only have shooting to handle these guys for the next few rounds, and again with their long range guns, these guys can easily sit a little deeper in deployment zones to zone out deep strikes.

 

Stealth Teams and Pathfinders I'm going to talk about but I have been testing stealth teams myself but only have been on the other side of pathfinders. Stealth Suits are pretty nice, their ability to give re-roll wound rolls of 1 is just nice to give out to your damage dealers or even just to whoever needs it the most. Being Infiltrators gives them good forward presence if you want but ultimately these guys may take your opponent a bit more effort to remove than they may like due to stealth and a 3+ save. Give them markerlights and they are overally solid. Pathfinders...I feel are nice but not needed. Their main reason to bring them is actually more as pseudo-special weapon teams who just so happen to be really good spotters. Being able to use them for 2 different targets is nice but again...I've often found myself (again, someone NOT using them) never having an issue with having spotters, Between Stealth Suits and my Battlelines, not had an issue where pathfinders would help. However their special weapons are...well mainly the rail rifle is what does it. That thing is fairly solid anti-tank on such a cheap unit that they will take chunks out of units far above their weight class very often. Comically, Stealth Suits do better as spotters while Pathfinders do better as damage dealers...so ironically you would want to guide your pathfinders...not have them spot.

Again, pathfinders are not a unit you take for their ability, you take them for their gun access and you take stealth suits because they do great spotting and also work well at being annoying forward field annoyances.

 

Finally...Kauyon SUCKS. It is cool and all, it is powerful...but by all that is the greater good it is a TERRIBLE detachment because we are basically playing without an ability for 2 full rounds and the 2 rounds we skip are without a doubt the most important. Ultimately, I wouldn't be surprised if top Tau lists (ha...if any make it) are mainly just Crisis Suit bombs with Commanders with the Exemplar enhancment. The stratagems are neat and some are good...but overall the detachment is rough...the only reason we can't claim to have the worst is because Death Guard have that station on lock!

 

Those are my thoughts and an attempt to drum up some discussion down here.

[Oxydo]

Strike and Breacher teams look ok for their price, until you compare them with say Barbgaunts who are just straight up superior in every way before even taking the movement debuff into account.

Admittedly they aren't battleline.

[Focslain]

14 hours ago, chapter master 454 said:

So, not a lot of movement on the whole greater good front here. Just going to put up some thoughts from a couple of games.

 

Forge World units of the R'Varna and Y'Vahra are improved but more because their points aren't horrifically inflated, being costed the same as the Riptide helps and while they have merits sadly they just lack some needed power. The R'Varna guns feel like they need ether another pip of AP or 1 extra strength to be worth while and the Y'Vahra...well the flamer to be honest needs to be damage 2 again OR the EMP...sorry...Ionic Discharge Cannon needs something...otherwise it doesn't compete well against Riptides (who have a better Ion gun just outright) and the flamer doesn't compensate for that. Certainly having 10 auto-hits is nice but just doesn't cut mustard as of now I feel. Maybe testing with force using it with Overwatch, literally just having it run up and be an overwatch annoyance but even then...

Issue for these 2 units I find is that they don't really bring anything serious to the table we can't find elsewhere and for easier access. Certainly the toning down of how easy it was to wound things is a factor here, but I feel especially for the R'Varna that it could of retained something to make the guns worthwhile. They are fun to use and casually good pieces to field but don't expect them to terrorise.

 

On the other hand...the true terror of the index, the Senechal of Sass, the Duke of Disrespect and Feller of Feelings is the Ghostkeel. While it won't be amazing in all match-ups, this thing ha a TON of utility on top of respectable offence with what I can only call the most insulting amount of protection a unit of its size could have. The only thing it is missing is an Invulnerable save but I could argue it does have better.

To start with how we approach this thing, it has Lone Operative....this rule is fairly easy to understand but importantly having it on a unit that can have 36" main gun level firepower is kind of nuts. With T8 and a 2+ save, this thing can take a lot of small arms to the face fairly confidently that it may have just get close by incident, so that's a factor. Then even if you are firing at it...it has stealth for -1 to hit it at range...which is topped off by the final ability it has which is in its adaption of drones into 10th: twice per game, after you allocate an attack to it (so you have had to HIT it and WOUND it first) it can just change the weapons damage to 0...just ignored...Then it flys away at 10" movement and laughs the whole way...which coupled with the fact that the battlesuit support system lets it fall back and still shoot it another layer of it giving insulting gestures and various gang signs as it just does what it wants. Even in my testing games with it using a fusion collider...having immunity to ranged firepower UNTIL it was in range to do damage was quite potent...and this was me against another Tau as well with Riptides.

Ghostkeels stocks are on the rise with the Index as is.

 

Our Battlelines are also insanely good for their price points. 100 for Strikes and 115 for Breachers is actually really good, especially since Guardian Drones make them far tougher than most opponents would like to deal with. -1 to wound for ranged weapons going against them is a massive boon, with most other infantry they face on the field wounding them on 4+ at best with their guns while on the crack-back getting wounded on 3+. Cadres and Etherals also add a lot of value to these units and are so cheap to bring...you could considering your first 6 battleline options at +50 points because each of these add a lot. Personally feeling Cadres best fit in breachers taking a devilfish but I just like that, ultimately they still add damage to your pulse rifles putting out 20 shots up to 30" out which is nothing to sneeze at, etherals however giving back-line strike teams a 5+ FNP is often really annoying for opponents to shift. Put them in some cover and now you have a unit which is -1 to hit, has a 3+ save and a 5+ FNP and is constantly putting out plink damage each turn while also observing as needed, 150 points your opponent will loathe to shift if they only have shooting to handle these guys for the next few rounds, and again with their long range guns, these guys can easily sit a little deeper in deployment zones to zone out deep strikes.

 

Stealth Teams and Pathfinders I'm going to talk about but I have been testing stealth teams myself but only have been on the other side of pathfinders. Stealth Suits are pretty nice, their ability to give re-roll wound rolls of 1 is just nice to give out to your damage dealers or even just to whoever needs it the most. Being Infiltrators gives them good forward presence if you want but ultimately these guys may take your opponent a bit more effort to remove than they may like due to stealth and a 3+ save. Give them markerlights and they are overally solid. Pathfinders...I feel are nice but not needed. Their main reason to bring them is actually more as pseudo-special weapon teams who just so happen to be really good spotters. Being able to use them for 2 different targets is nice but again...I've often found myself (again, someone NOT using them) never having an issue with having spotters, Between Stealth Suits and my Battlelines, not had an issue where pathfinders would help. However their special weapons are...well mainly the rail rifle is what does it. That thing is fairly solid anti-tank on such a cheap unit that they will take chunks out of units far above their weight class very often. Comically, Stealth Suits do better as spotters while Pathfinders do better as damage dealers...so ironically you would want to guide your pathfinders...not have them spot.

Again, pathfinders are not a unit you take for their ability, you take them for their gun access and you take stealth suits because they do great spotting and also work well at being annoying forward field annoyances.

 

Finally...Kauyon SUCKS. It is cool and all, it is powerful...but by all that is the greater good it is a TERRIBLE detachment because we are basically playing without an ability for 2 full rounds and the 2 rounds we skip are without a doubt the most important. Ultimately, I wouldn't be surprised if top Tau lists (ha...if any make it) are mainly just Crisis Suit bombs with Commanders with the Exemplar enhancment. The stratagems are neat and some are good...but overall the detachment is rough...the only reason we can't claim to have the worst is because Death Guard have that station on lock!

 

Those are my thoughts and an attempt to drum up some discussion down here.

I haven't had time to test my Tau yet. so didn't want to really make guesses.

 

Will agree with most of what you stated, the Ghostkeel especially. I have a pair with CIRs so using them a observers is a given.  Once i get a few games in I'll drop thoughts. Hope to test out a mostly stealth list, battlesuit list then infantry list. Strongly looking at bringing back Longstrike for warlord as my local meta hasn't triggered heavy anti-vehicle unless you declare bring knights. So having a pair of hammerheads should be ok, if not interesting.

[Galron]

I have played against two different tau armies now. Crisis have to be used extremely efficiently as they are not anything close to durable. In both my games I have wiped two squads both games the first time I had chances to fire at them. Opponents need to figure out how to synergize and prevent me from getting those shots. 

 

I have seen no one here talk about Tetras. Those things are the stars of the index. 80 points for a fast guiding + Markerlight unit that is toughness 6 with 12 wounds? People are insane not to bring them. 

 

Breachers with fireblades are nuts. Put them in a devilfish and they will deal consistent damage to most infantry. They are not the troop tax they used to be. No one has mentioned their 3+ ballistic skill which can be guided to a 2+ 

[chapter master 454]

Tetras are a bit more awkward to get hands on, being forge world and personally...not a fan of the model. That's my reason for those but I have heard from other tau at my local club that tetras are amazing.

 

Breachers with 3+ is something I noticed but I didn't mention because there was other things I was covering. They can really do a LOT of damage, even more elite troops will feel them bite pretty hard considering you can get them to that fabled 2+ to hit and all from their devilfish too, even if you advance and disembark, provided you don't take the Smissiles which I don't know why you would. To top that off, if you have them target a unit that even has a SINGLE pinky toe on an objective: Full re-roll to wound. So against most infantry targets that is 2+ to hit, 3+ to wound with full re-rolls and AP1 and with the cadre you get 30 shots. Great value, especially if you can get exemplar of Kauyon to activate on turn 2 for them. 260 points total for the package of Devilfish, Breachers and Cadre. And remember, always take the guardian drone and now they are -1 to wound at range on the crack-back and if they get targeted for charge, combat embarkation to force the opponent to deal with the Devilfish first.

 

Still to test Crisis suits personally. There is a LOT of options going here however I will say that their weapons don't inspire me much. There is some sauce to play with but for their points they lack any serious tank-buster power outside of Fusion Blasters which with their nerf to 12" are now just...imma say it: Trash.

Missile pods look real nice for a simple ranged suit set-up with triple pods and shield generators. Plasma Rifles seem to be arguably their most potent "Anti-Tank" questionably, Burst cannons should rip through most infantry and when Kauyon kicks in the amount of hits also goes up however one thing I think is fairly cheeky is a full flamer block of them. Just 6 of them with 3 flamers each, shield generators and a bunch of gun drones and deep strike next to a fairly elite unit that WANTS to keep moving. On the drop, 18D6 auto-hits even at strength 4 will do some amount of damage and then on the following opponents turn when they want to move: DO IT AGAIN with overwatch. It is costly but considering the only counter-play is to literally not move that particular unit, that is fairly annoying.

 

That's my additional cents on it, going to test some crisis suits this week with a bunch of Ghostkeels, see how it goes.

[chapter master 454]

Welp...that test went as worst as it could go. Faced a fairly skewed Imperial Guard list which contained a baneblade, a leman russ demolisher, 3 armigers, 2 sentinels plus creed, solar and a smattering of command squads and action monkey scion squads.

 

I killed...ONE...count it ONE sentinel.

One. Not armoured, scout variant.

 

Riptides are just not what they once were and don't cut mustard anymore. Yes, against an elite infantry army it likely would of done better along with the ghostkeels but ultimately...Ion weapons SUCK now for trying to do work against big targets. Like we are talking they don't even put a remote amount of strain on armour.

Ghostkeels also struggled massively. Apparently a firebase of 3 ghostkeels with re-roll 1s firing 18 hazard level ion shots at tanks does the square root of nothing, similar to the riptides.

The Crisis suits also got clapped super fast despite having shield generators, being in cover and having 5 wounds.

 

Biggest issue: again our BS4+ screwing us and the fact that our anti-armour sources are so limited. Fusion Blasters being range 12" is actually a major blow because in prior games with me using them...they just don't EVER do anything. This leads now to being pigeon holed into bringing extremely specific units with specific weapons.

Pathfinders, Broadsides and Hammerheads. Spot the pattern of what weapon I am talking about that is basically our only anti-tank; Rail.

 

I am happy, extremely so, that armoured targets aren't dismissable. Seeing the armour shrug off what in prior editions would likely of cleared them out turn 2 easily (and not vice versa) is good but then I am left with a strange problem...GW were incredibly stingy with anti-tank strength sources to an extreme. Fusion Blasters are kind of an odd thing because they are literally just a meltagun...pretty sure stat for stat they are meltaguns...despite the fact they are only ever mounted on Battlesuits. I mean, wouldn't matter too much because of T11 and T13 tanks I faced but...feels like our fusion blaster should be an 18" strength 10 weapon...and the Fusion Collider on the Ghostkeel needs far more to it. It has strength but...not much else imo.

 

Sadly...salt is strong and the list I faced was skew...but it did heavily highlight how hard it is to source anti-tank sometimes.

...I'm going back to my knights...their guns work on everything...and they are BIGGER robots...with big guns...that don't tire...waa!

[TheArtilleryman]

I’m trying to work out if I have got this wrong because nobody else has mentioned it anywhere on the internet: 

 

Pathfinders used to be able to take all three of the drones that come in the box, but now they have to choose only one. Am I wrong or am I right? If I’m right, this not only nerfs the unit but also seems really unfair as you have basically paid for models you can’t use …

[Indy Techwisp]

7 hours ago, TheArtilleryman said:

I’m trying to work out if I have got this wrong because nobody else has mentioned it anywhere on the internet: 

 

Pathfinders used to be able to take all three of the drones that come in the box, but now they have to choose only one. Am I wrong or am I right? If I’m right, this not only nerfs the unit but also seems really unfair as you have basically paid for models you can’t use …

 

It's one of their unique Drone now, mostly because they're more powerful now.

As for "paying for models you can't use", you can use them, just not all at once.

[TheArtilleryman]

6 hours ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

It's one of their unique Drone now, mostly because they're more powerful now.

As for "paying for models you can't use", you can use them, just not all at once.

True, just a bit of a shame considering it’s been the same way forever. Just another one of the weird random changes made in 10th.

[Indy Techwisp]

Well then.
How to you guys feel about your Points slash?