Wh40k 10th Edition Genestealer Cults Index

[TrawlingCleaner]

Generations of planning hasn't prepared us for actually winning this fight

[brother_b]

This is my new edition army and all of the stuff just feels underwhelming. Although 9th was super bloated and rules at times confusing the GSC codex looked amazing. Im bummed I never got  to take it for a spin.

 

At first glance everything underwhelms me, especially the magus that has a nice ability but 0 offensive psychic output.

 

The whole character attached to a unit is also something that irks me. We’re basically locked into a single way to play our characters.

 

Im going to have to give this edition a try ASAP hopefully alleviate some of my concerns if the game is fun and quick playing.

Edited June 15, 2023 by brother_b

[Dark Legionnare]

Boy. I sure do love that the patriarch can be attached to ONLY purestrain genestealers & doesn't have lone operative.

(And to a lesser extent the same for the Jackal Alphus, but that's a bit more sensical that it can attach to only jackals than the patriarch's restriction, and she can at least pop out, do her thing, then hide behind a corner again. Still feel like they should both have "lone operative")

So, enjoy having him blasted off the table with no recourse other than to hide in reserves/behind LoS unless you have purestrains.

Edited June 15, 2023 by Dark Legionnare

[Scribe]

I don't have context on how they functioned previously, but taken as a whole they still seem evocative to me, and are part of my pile of shame.

 

I'm at least interested. 

[Rogue]

But why wouldn't you want purestrains? The infiltrate, advance, charge combo can put 120 attacks into the enemy lines turn one, with 40 of them benefitting from Devastating Wounds as well, plus the Patriarch, plus battleshock. 

 

Even a single brood with big guy could be a very useful flanking unit.

[AnvilofFenris]

I think a lot is going to come down to how the new cult ambush rule works in practice. If you can use ambush markers to steer your opponent, it might open up some opportunities for your reserve units to drop into spaces.

[Rogue]

Goonhammer's review talks about the Ambush rule as allowing gnus to deploy units at the end of our next movement phase. Which would be lovely, but isn't my understanding of the rule. I think we get to bring them back at the end of our opponent's next movement phase.

 

Have I lost the ability to understand rules, or have Goonhammer made a mistake?

[AnvilofFenris]

20 minutes ago, Rogue said:

Goonhammer's review talks about the Ambush rule as allowing gnus to deploy units at the end of our next movement phase. Which would be lovely, but isn't my understanding of the rule. I think we get to bring them back at the end of our opponent's next movement phase.

 

Have I lost the ability to understand rules, or have Goonhammer made a mistake?

I read it the same as you, the token goes down as soon as the unit gets destroyed, the unit can come back at the end of your opponent’s next movement phase as long as there’s a token left on the board

[Zoatibix]

2 hours ago, Rogue said:

But why wouldn't you want purestrains? The infiltrate, advance, charge combo can put 120 attacks into the enemy lines turn one, with 40 of them benefitting from Devastating Wounds as well, plus the Patriarch, plus battleshock. 

 

Even a single brood with big guy could be a very useful flanking unit.

Plus they’re the centre of a literal cult…that they’re psychically tied to. Kind of an odd complaint to my mind.

 

But then again, Broodlords lost Synapse so what do I know?

Edited June 15, 2023 by Zoatibix
PWI again!

[Petitioner's City]

I must admit I'm so enamoured with the (edit: patriarch) art and even idea of the model of 1st/2nd edition, that I wish there was a way to represent a patriarch like this

 

 

 

 

just something so weird and creepy about this, all these years later!

Edited June 15, 2023 by Petitioner's City

[Dark Legionnare]

2 hours ago, Rogue said:

But why wouldn't you want purestrains? The infiltrate, advance, charge combo can put 120 attacks into the enemy lines turn one, with 40 of them benefitting from Devastating Wounds as well, plus the Patriarch, plus battleshock. 

 

Even a single brood with big guy could be a very useful flanking unit.

That's all very true, and I don't disagree.

 

But, being pigeon-holed into specific things/army design is pretty damn lame. Arguably, the lamest thing GW can do, IMO.

 

You're building your army how you want to, thats the appeal of warhammer. Your force.

 

Mine for instance, is some basic russes, chimeras, and brood brothers, then tons of acolytes, some trucks, abberants, etc, etc...

 

It's a mining camp rebellion breaking out with some PDF guards turning on non-cult members as double agent helpers. No puretrains, no metamorphs in the force.

 

I'm sure he absolutely slaps paired with them, but people being ostensibly told "No, go buy some purestrains" is GW design choice at its worst.

[Ruskinses]

I'm looking forward to using the new rules, especially as I love running aberrants & purestrain genestealers. I like that jackals now do a lot of damage with their demolition also

[Ruskinses]

I also really love that if you shoot at a unit near a Kellermorph they will shoot right back at you

[Rogue]

Aberrants could be good now. A standard aberrant kills a marine every time it fights (on average), and the Abominant provides a 25% increase in overall damage output. Points tomorrow, but maybe 10th is their edition.

[Dr. Clock]

7 hours ago, Dark Legionnare said:

being ostensibly told "No, go buy some purestrains" is GW design choice at its worst.

I dunno; for me, hard locking the main character buffs across the game to just a few iconic choices cuts down on the mental load of trying to figure out what or where the most uber edge case is.

 

TBH keeping the Devastating Wounds off the multi-damage weapons of even Acolytes, to say nothing of Aberrants, is kind of important. If Broodlord could be taken with Aberrants, that would be the one people take, and you'd possibly never see the iconic 'big momma and the kids' unit.

 

Same thing with the Locus and Iconward, who just ooze with win IMO: they would be dangerous for balance if they could just join anything.

 

I don't think we get a game with characters this impactful if any character can join any unit, and I like the idea that you can't just parachute the best special rule onto the absolute best buff target.

 

So essentially my suggestion would be to convert a 'genestealers' bodyguard unit of sneaky weirdos out of... Delaque ninjas, probably? I've bashed about 8 Delaques into Acolytes and they work really well for that, but the Piscean, ninjas and floaty lady could counts-as Stealers easy if you don't want actual purestrains for Patriarch. Honestly Locus + Primus or Iconward in 10 Acolytes could be just as efficient, and might be cheaper (although perhaps not on account of Acolytes recursion).

 

I'm digging the Index in general though... on the face of it Cult Ambush is completely unprecedented. It feels like a 'Narrative' rule made real, and I have doubts on the ability to get points right in the first instance, because I have no idea how you point 20-man squads of better armed Guard that come back if you kill them. Currently, trying to resist taking 3 Iconwards and/or Primuses... Unless I'm missing something, there's no restriction on taking multiples of the characters?

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

 

[sitnam]

8 minutes ago, Dr. Clock said:

Unless I'm missing something, there's no restriction on taking multiples of the characters?

If it ain't EPIC it doesn't seem restricted. Probably one highlight of 10e is that limiting restrictions seem to be fairly cut down. CSM for instance could just fill out the roster with cultists and guardsmen with no CSM squads if they wanted.

[Dark Legionnare]

15 minutes ago, Dr. Clock said:

I dunno; for me, hard locking the main character buffs across the game to just a few iconic choices cuts down on the mental load of trying to figure out what or where the most uber edge case is.

 

TBH keeping the Devastating Wounds off the multi-damage weapons of even Acolytes, to say nothing of Aberrants, is kind of important. If Broodlord could be taken with Aberrants, that would be the one people take, and you'd possibly never see the iconic 'big momma and the kids' unit.

 

Same thing with the Locus and Iconward, who just ooze with win IMO: they would be dangerous for balance if they could just join anything.

 

I don't think we get a game with characters this impactful if any character can join any unit, and I like the idea that you can't just parachute the best special rule onto the absolute best buff target.

 

So essentially my suggestion would be to convert a 'genestealers' bodyguard unit of sneaky weirdos out of... Delaque ninjas, probably? I've bashed about 8 Delaques into Acolytes and they work really well for that, but the Piscean, ninjas and floaty lady could counts-as Stealers easy if you don't want actual purestrains for Patriarch. Honestly Locus + Primus or Iconward in 10 Acolytes could be just as efficient, and might be cheaper (although perhaps not on account of Acolytes recursion).

 

I'm digging the Index in general though... on the face of it Cult Ambush is completely unprecedented. It feels like a 'Narrative' rule made real, and I have doubts on the ability to get points right in the first instance, because I have no idea how you point 20-man squads of better armed Guard that come back if you kill them. Currently, trying to resist taking 3 Iconwards and/or Primuses... Unless I'm missing something, there's no restriction on taking multiples of the characters?

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

 

All well and good, and I'd be inclined to agree. I'm sure there's some character across other factions that can do absurd wounds combos that somebody who's paid attention to all the indexes might know; then I would probably say "acolytes as a bodyguard are fine, especially limited to a squad of 10 as they are now."

 

All that out the window, having no other safe options than exactly one possible unit is prohibitively restrictive and very lame.

 

Having the patriarch at least have something like:

 

"Skulking Progenitor: If this model is not chosen as the leader for a bodyguard unit when declaring units, it replaces its 'Leader' ability with 'Lone Operative' for the entirety of the battle."

 

That's a very serviceable ability instead of "No, go buy purestrains."

Edited June 16, 2023 by Dark Legionnare

[brother_b]

Can purestrain genestealers with the patriarch still advance and charge?

[Antarius]

12 hours ago, AnvilofFenris said:

I think a lot is going to come down to how the new cult ambush rule works in practice. If you can use ambush markers to steer your opponent, it might open up some opportunities for your reserve units to drop into spaces.

Yeah. I think this is one of those things that just has to be tried out to see how it really works.

 

I think it’s a bit sad that the Patriarch doesn’t have lone operative, but it also makes 100% sense to me that he only groups with Purestrains.

[Rogue]

4 hours ago, brother_b said:

Can purestrain genestealers with the patriarch still advance and charge?

 

Yes. The Swift and Deadly rule refers to "this unit". If the Patriarch joins the unit, then he is part of "this unit", and the rule includes him.

 

It also means that the Patriarch no longer has the advance/charge ability when he's on his own (either by choice, or if all the genestealers are dead), as the rule is tied to the genestealer unit. Don't tell Dark Legionnare.

[Xenith]

The index seems fun, and I don't doubt that the cult ambush rule is powerful.

 

Iconward and Nexos seem like auto takes to manipulate the ambush tokens to keep you getting units back? Jackals seem fun and flavourful, but need the alpha maybe?

 

You can still take 4 lasers and 4 grenades in a 20 man unit with characters. 

[TrawlingCleaner]

It looks to be a fun index for sure, Cult Amush takes some trickery to get it to work well and I think the loss of blips makes them a more fragile army. They've definitely pivoted hard into Mortal Wound Tricks with some units

There a couple of interactions that could do with some tweaking I think, mainly:

 

10 model Jackal squad with a Alphus roll up to unit and end their move inside 6" and do a Demo run meaning they roll 11 D6, get about 5 MW. They then shoot the unit with a good amount of shooting, they then use the Grenade strat, roll 11D6 and get about 5 MW. They then get to move again thanks to the Alphus and do a Demo run again, getting about 5MW.

You could do about 15MW total or you could spike really hard as they're all 4+s, and you could also have 3 units doing this

Easy fix: specify Alphus' move can't trigger Demo run and remove the Grenade keyword from Jackals, done!

 

Rock Grinders also roll 6D6 after a charge and on 4s do MW but can then also do Tank Shock and roll another 10D6

 

Those are the two I've noticed but that's a lot of MW!

[Dark Legionnare]

2 hours ago, Rogue said:

 

Yes. The Swift and Deadly rule refers to "this unit". If the Patriarch joins the unit, then he is part of "this unit", and the rule includes him.

 

It also means that the Patriarch no longer has the advance/charge ability when he's on his own (either by choice, or if all the genestealers are dead), as the rule is tied to the genestealer unit. Don't tell Dark Legionnare.

Too late, I've been told! Haha.

[Xenith]

1 minute ago, Dark Legionnare said:

the Patriarch no longer has the advance/charge ability when he's on his own (either by choice, or if all the genestealers are dead)

 

No doubt mourning his dead progeny! 

[Dark Legionnare]

8 minutes ago, Xenith said:

 

No doubt mourning his dead progeny! 

Or busy "recycling."

Edited June 16, 2023 by Dark Legionnare