Chosen vs Legionaries

[acrozatarim]

So, Chosen are 23 points a model, Legionaries 20 points a model.

 

Chosen have killier melee weapons, can have lots of plasma pistols, and a few combi-weapons; Legionaries notionally can drag heavy or special weapons along, but that means they can't take a chainsword. Let's face it, the main benefit of a Legionary squad is piling lots and lots of chainsword attacks into melee, so taking advantage of 'free' wargear may reduce the damage you're outputting in melee.

 

Chosen have inbuilt advance/charge/fallback stuff; Legionaries reroll 1s to wound, or full rerolls when objectives are involved.

 

Chosen also have 3 wounds; Legionaries have very slightly more character options (Abaddon and Lucius).

 

I'm wondering if Chosen are now simply the 'better' choice for our main infantry. They're more resilient, don't need the Mark of Slaanesh to get advance and charge, and have more tactical flexibility because taking combi-weapons doesn't strip them of their melee tools, although legionaries can pack in one more power-fist equivalent weapon into a 5-man squad. On the other hand, Legionaries have those melee wound rerolls, and can get access to advance/charge with the right Mark anyway. Is a 15% higher price per unit on Chosen enough to make legionaries feel like a fair choice when compared to them?

 

If we want a squad that can bring a load of special weapons, then weirdly Raptors seem a better choice than legionaries, as they're cheaper and can take 4 of a special weapon choice in a 10-man unit.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

[Verbal Underbelly]

I agree with your observations. Honestly there seems to be a use case for raptors, chosen and legionaries. It probably worth noting that you can take sixunits of legionaries compared to three of the others although I'd be surprised if that came up often. 

 

I haven't played yet but my instincts are telling me that it's worth taking the variety pack approach and having a unit of each. Chosen to body guard your chaos lord, legionaries to body guard your sorcerer and a pack of melta gun raptors to throw away against an enemy transport (for example).

[danodan123]

Legionaries have OC 2, csm don't seem to have the best OC around.

 

They can also take lascannons and the like.

 

 

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Legionaries can have heavy weapons and a higher OC, which makes them better for babysitting objectives.  Cultists can sticky objectives, but they're still very fragile and the sticky only takes effect in your Command Phase so if they get blown off an objective they just took or battleshocked the sticky doesn't apply.  Legionaries equipped for shooting definitely have a place in that regard.

 

There's more of an argument in the comparison with Chosen when it comes to seizing objectives in the midfield, as the Chosen have the aforementioned advantages.  However, in this regard Legionaries bring the extra OC and in-built rerolls when assaulting the enemy on an objective.  At that point, I feel like it's more of a toss-up.

[Newbiticus]

 My initial plan was to use a full unit of chosen with an Exalted Champ and MOP along with a second unit with a Lord.   But… I like the tactical options of raptors (deep strike, speed) as a “big thing” hunter.  I wouldn’t mind having a rhino on the field and legionaries seem like the best option to make that happen, In addition to their strength on objectives and special weapon delivery.

 

 

[MarshalMittermeier]

for 10 points, legionaries give you 1 oc.

the same oc costs 23 points for chosen.

reroll wounds:

 

assuming a toughness 7 target, a unit of 5 legionaries does 20 attacks. mark of slaanesh giving them exploding 5s means on average 20 hits. you roll first, do 6,6 wounds on average. rerolling wounds, thats 11 wounds total at -1ap. this damage could be slightly increased by heavy melee.

5 chosen of khorne, do 20 attacks. they do , on average, 13,3 hits, of which 4,4 are lethal. rolling for 8,9 hits, wounding on 5s, 3 more. so 7,4 wounds total vs toughness 7. their accursed weapons are now merely -2 ap, so not that much better than chainswords considering they dont have reroll wounds.

however, both units perform well even vs toughness 7. toughness 8 or above is tricky; on one hand chosen are s5, on the other legionaries have more heavy melee.

so both units are more similar in damage output than we thought.  where the situation explodes, though, is when you add a dark apostle to a legionaries squad. that guy gives them +1 to wound, which , in a squad that rerolls wounds, is just nasty. chosen have other combos as well, they are also tougher.


as we see its not that easy. tl:dr, "reroll wounds super awesome, legionaries have good damage output, not worse than chosen". pick chosen for the toughness, pick legionaries for the oc, both deal damage.

 

 

Edited June 18, 2023 by MarshalMittermeier

[MasterDeath]

Chosen are way more flexible in regards were and how they fight, Shooting or melee. A bit like special forces they are wasted Holding an objective.

Legionaries are heavy infantry, they can be equipped to fight anything, but their Job is to Push the opponents Off objectives.

I think GW did a really good Job with unit jobs

[TrawlingCleaner]

The OC difference and bonuses vs models on an objective really helps push them onto held objectives.

I think a full melee squad + Huron + Master of Executions with Liber Herticus can really do a scary amount of damage and take an objective from nearly any opponent. Have the MoE means you can reliably character snip if you need it and you can always use Heroic Challenge on Huron if needed too. If you're not fighting on an objecitve you can use Profane Zeal if needed

[sonsoftaurus]

I think the 3W is also huge, a big survival boost vs typical D2 marine killers. Granted, I have not gone through the indexes to see how prevalent D2 is now.

[Verbal Underbelly]

Yeah I think it's not a case of chosen OR legionaries but rather chosen AND legionaries. Have them working in tandem. 

[danodan123]

I'm looking at them like some sort of hammer and anvil type idea.

 

I think in a previous post someone compared chosen to a special forces type unit which I like too, quite quick to redeploy aswell with their ability.