Characters/unit combinations

[MasterDeath]

I thought sharing some ideas for Combinations would be fun. 

 

MoP + chosen (undivided). 

 

Faster advance and Charge on a unit that shoots, charges and advances in the same round. A 6+ fnp for some toughness and the Option for full rerolls via stratagem. The enhancements for sustain and lethal is optional.

The MoP brings some OK Shooting in top

[Cpt.Danjou]

I am in the same corner as you are Chosen + MoP, but I think MoT, with the Skinshift stratagem, keeping them alive even longer, plus making using the Sacrificial dagger makes does not hurt as much if you can heal wounds next turn. If you want to put even more eggs in the same basket, you can also include a Master of Executions, making it a very nasty unit, "only" 380 points, so still cheaper than a 10 man terminator unit.

 

Speaking of Terminator units, I thought a Sorcerer in Terminator armour both marked with Slaanesh, for that sweet advance and charge, and with the sorcerers ability to re-roll both advance and charge, making them more or less certain to reach that place they should be at.

 

Cpt. Danjou

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I'm starting with these three:

 

 

The Murder Team: Chaos Lord, Exalted Champion, 10x Chosen (Mark of Khorne) in a Land Raider.  The Champion improves the Lord's hammer to a 2+ to hit and the Accursed weapons to a 2+ to hit (the combis also go to a 3+ -- Dark Champion doesn't specify just CC weapons), the Lord gives them a free stratagem.  They're a decent shooting threat at close ranges with five 3+ to hit combi weapons, but I can't wait to deliver them to a charge target.  I miiiiiiight take the Talisman of Burning Blood on the Lord too, points depending.

 

Daemon Death Dealers: Master of Possession with the Liber Hereticus with Possessed (Chaos Undivided).  I know, I know, "Why no Mark of Slaanesh?  Advance & charge would be awesome!"  It sure would.  But these guys have Devastating Wounds, and Profane Zeal will let them reroll all hits & wounds if they're Undivided; so if I'm hitting something that really needs the application of mortal wounds, I can reroll any Wound rolls that aren't 6s.  Plus, they're already M9" with +1" to charge from the MoP, so the extra movement from the advance isn't quite as important in my opinion.

 

Warpfire Gunnery: Sorcerer with Eye of Tzeentch, 10x Legionaries (Mark of Tzeentch).  Ideally you'd have a Helbrute nearby for the double-Pact ability, but I'll be using this team at first as an infantry clearance unit with bolters, a balefire tome, a heavy bolter, and a chaincannon.  It's a lot of shots at comparatively low strength, so the Lethal Hits on 5+ will help punch some wounds into enemy targets.  The Sorcerer brings the Eye for CP generation and his witchfire is 24" range, so he can contribute with the rest of the guns too.  Prescience being a negative modifier to be hit also makes them feel a little bit like my Alpha Legion of 8th & 9th Editions, so there's that.  Having all those bodies also pads out potential losses from Dark Pacts and the Hazardous bit on the focused witchfire, and Skinshift can be used to heal any of that damage back up.

Edited June 17, 2023 by Iron Father Ferrum

[MarshalMittermeier]

dark apostle with 10 legionaries, mark of slaanesh.
...so lets say DA doesnt even attack. 40 attacks, exploding 5s. on average thats 40 hits, more if you can get reroll hits by abaddon or sth. but lets say 40.

you get 40 wound rolls, with +1 to wound (dark apostle), and reroll wounds. vs a Land Raider (yes, a land raider) thats more than 20 wounds (6 to wound, getting +1 and reroll; on average thats 13 wounds, and rerolling for 9 more). vs terminators thats 30 wounds. 10 unsaved (3+, due to -1ap). these are the worst targets, the worst case scenario.  imagine lower t/saves.

i didnt even take into account heavy melee/DA's attacks.

Edited June 18, 2023 by MarshalMittermeier

[danodan123]

Edit: nevermind, I should read rules better first :)

Edited June 18, 2023 by danodan123

[Newbiticus]

What about Huron Blackheart + Chosen.  Huron can give a boost to OC which Chisen are lacking compared to Legionaries.  I was considering MoP + Chosen for durability and focus on hit and run tactics but I like Huron’s redo ability.

Would it be worth adding a Termie Sorcerer or Lord to a 5 man Termie unit that would be deployed via deep strike?  Or should such characters be reserved for 10am units?

 

bahh, so many choices…I love it.

[Cpt.Danjou]

33 minutes ago, Newbiticus said:

What about Huron Blackheart + Chosen.  Huron can give a boost to OC which Chisen are lacking compared to Legionaries.  I was considering MoP + Chosen for durability and focus on hit and run tactics but I like Huron’s redo ability.

Would it be worth adding a Termie Sorcerer or Lord to a 5 man Termie unit that would be deployed via deep strike?  Or should such characters be reserved for 10am units?

 

bahh, so many choices…I love it.

I tried going with MoS Terminators without any characters and they did ok, but in the end was killed. My next trial with terminators will MoT and Termilord as "Skinshift" will keep them alive longer, when you deepstrike them in your opponents turn they don't need MoS as they will be in range for a charge anyhow, better to use the Slaanehs stratagem on other stuff. I was thinking of having two five man terminator units, so I can revive two Terminators every turn, and heal two other to full wounds.

 

Cpt Danjou 

[MegaVolt87]

With the loss of our FW units, I believe there is enough utility in the chaos wardog variants to take their place. I think they will be the new meta to prop up our faction as the replacements. Mabye a ranged hellbrute to juice x2 havok units with dark pacts ? If you want to use the traditional tanks like pred, I would play your legion with SM rules, you get the whirlwind and the preads there. Also lol at the 85pt rhino still. 

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Basic, but fun:
Warpsmith w/Mark of Tzeentch and Eye of Tzeentch, Tzeentch Havocs with Heavy Bolters, Slaanesh Vindicator:

 

Slap the Vindicator on the rear with Master of Mechanisms, so that it can advance, shoot, and charge (using Unnatural Swiftness, being Slaanesh) with +1 to hit. Advance the Vindi, move the Havocs/Warpsmith up and open up with the Heavy Bolters on another unit, getting crits on 5's for both Sustained (native) and Lethal Hits (warpfire). Eye of Tzeentch likely gets you the CP for Unnatural Swiftness back. The Vindi, of course, opens fire, calling Sustained Hits with a 2+ and then yells "TANK SHOOOOOOCK!!" and charges to go bowling for Mortals.....then proceeds to sit there in combat, ramming and blasting things at pointblank range while the Havoc unit moves past it looking for other targets, maybe healing the Vindi if needed.

Edited June 21, 2023 by GreaterChickenofTzeentch

[MegaVolt87]

With the FOC requirements gone, any CSM IW players excited about front loading HS units? I know I am, worst case I just have more stuff to use in HH if I buy new stuff. 

Edited June 22, 2023 by MegaVolt87

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Looking more closely at the master of possession, the +1 assault and charge he gives to possessed when attached is pretty much cancelled out by him being move 8 to the possessed's 9 (so, at best, the bonus is simply making up for the fact that he otherwise makes the unit slower) - do people think the 6+++ FNP he gives the unit plus his own combat potential is worth it, or are his points better spent on simply fielding more models?

Edited June 22, 2023 by Dr_Ruminahui

[MDops]

I'm looking forward to Lucius and a full squad of noise marines kitted up for melee. Strike first and the pistols cause a battleshock test in the shooting phase to hopefully get that OC 0.

[LSM]

11 hours ago, MDops said:

I'm looking forward to Lucius and a full squad of noise marines kitted up for melee. Strike first and the pistols cause a battleshock test in the shooting phase to hopefully get that OC 0.

Any thoughts on CC Noise Marines vs CC Slaanesh Legionaries?

 

The Legionaries are +15pts/5models, get an additional Heavy Melee Weapon/Power Fist, extra point of OC, and exchange the forced shooting Battle Shock test for situational melee Wound re-rolls. (You also loose the Doom Siren and Blastmaster option.)

 

The Legionaries can also have an Exalted Champion added to them (for +1 to hit) or a Master of Executions (for situational re-rolls to hit & wound and CP generation).

[MDops]

I've personally gravitated to CC Noise marines as they have been spikey in 8th and 9th.

 

I suspect Legionaries are going to be the better option as they have a greater variety of characters that can be added. The additional heavy melee/power fist also tips it more in their favour

 

The battleshock on shooting could be swingy as the unit also can be targeted by stratagems which might help in a pinch but shouldn't be expected.

 

But that being said if you did need to free up 30 points I don't think the noise marines are too far behind the legionaries 

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

On 6/22/2023 at 12:15 AM, MegaVolt87 said:

With the FOC requirements gone, any CSM IW players excited about front loading HS units? I know I am, worst case I just have more stuff to use in HH if I buy new stuff. 

I am certainly excited about running Havocs as if they were "Troops" and testing out my 2 new Defilers or running 3 Preds, 3 Vindis, and a Land Raider for an armored spearhead.

[MasterDeath]

Given me mortals, mutants and beastmen. Lots of them

[RenegadeKorps]

On 6/22/2023 at 12:27 PM, Dr_Ruminahui said:

Looking more closely at the master of possession, the +1 assault and charge he gives to possessed when attached is pretty much cancelled out by him being move 8 to the possessed's 9 (so, at best, the bonus is simply making up for the fact that he otherwise makes the unit slower) - do people think the 6+++ FNP he gives the unit plus his own combat potential is worth it, or are his points better spent on simply fielding more models?

 

The benefit would be the Enhancement. Plus, FnP 6+ on 3w models is good, since 50% of the time your opponent will need two 3-damage wounds instead of one to kill one model. (Plus the obvious benefit against D1. Against D2, the benefit is very thin.)

 

Undivided Possessed 

Strat (re-roll to hit and to wound) + devastating + Liber (sustained + lethal)

= all the rules you can imagine...

Such a combo inflicts 34 wounds on an Imperial Knight. 

 

Moreover, you can combined all this with Death hex from a Terminator Sorcerer for ap-2 weapons. 

Such a combo kills 8 or 9 custodian guards (26 wounds)* or 30 space marines (59 wounds).

*Factoring their FnP against mortal. This shows that custodian guards are very hard to kill...

 

How to protect your unit ? One (expensive) Strat reduces ap by 1; one Strat gives -1 to hit; the Dæmon Prince aura gives cover. (Or Abaddon gives a 4++.)  

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by RenegadeKorps

[danodan123]

I think the enhancement is overkill, you don't really want to auto wound when you have devastating wounds too.

[RenegadeKorps]

14 minutes ago, danodan123 said:

I think the enhancement is overkill, you don't really want to auto wound when you have devastating wounds too.

Against a SM profile, it's true that it reduces the overall damage. 

But against T10+, since you are wounding on 6+, Lethal hits add something like 25% more damage. A unit with a MoP is 25% more expensive, so it balances out.

Clearly it's overkill with a full squad, but you may not have 10 models that reach combat and fight. 

 

I see that the MoP is M8, but the unit can still charge while he is a little bit at the back. 

Edited June 26, 2023 by RenegadeKorps

[MegaVolt87]

On 6/25/2023 at 3:35 PM, GreaterChickenofTzeentch said:

I am certainly excited about running Havocs as if they were "Troops" and testing out my 2 new Defilers or running 3 Preds, 3 Vindis, and a Land Raider for an armored spearhead.

 

I am considering quad preads, worst case they end up as extra units for my HH IW. 

[abaumann]

So I’m looking to play some smaller games in 10th due to time restrictions and don’t like the idea of all eggs in one basket (used to run a big seer council with Eldrad back in the day and when that got taken out it was pretty much game over). How do people think cheap 5-man units of chosen or legionaries will perform with a lord or MoE in Rhinos? Will be running DPs and small units of Warp Talons for the battle shock combo too, looking to be rather aggressive with it all.

Edited June 27, 2023 by abaumann

[Newbiticus]

7 hours ago, abaumann said:

So I’m looking to play some smaller games in 10th due to time restrictions and don’t like the idea of all eggs in one basket (used to run a big seer council with Eldrad back in the day and when that got taken out it was pretty much game over). How do people think cheap 5-man units of chosen or legionaries will perform with a lord or MoE in Rhinos? Will be running DPs and small units of Warp Talons for the battle shock combo too, looking to be rather aggressive with it all.

If by “Smaller” you mean 1,000pts, I feel you would have to go with smaller squads.  At 1,500pts maybe 1 or 2 larger primary units and a series of smaller units as support?

[abaumann]

@Newbiticusok thanks, yes between 1000-1500pts. Is the consensus that 5 chosen and 5 legionaries each with a character in separate rhinos would be less effective than a single rhino with a large squad? I understand it’s situational but trying to understand your reasoning.

Edited June 28, 2023 by abaumann

[Newbiticus]

3 hours ago, abaumann said:

@Newbiticusok thanks, yes between 1000-1500pts. Is the consensus that 5 chosen and 5 legionaries each with a character in separate rhinos would be less effective than a single rhino with a large squad? I understand it’s situational but trying to understand your reasoning.

I started to type out a long winded high brow armchair general explanation about why more smaller squads where better and then I made a test list…and changed my tune.

 

at 1,000pts you could go with one full squad with character support and still have the points for supporting units.  My personal preferences is to not lump my eggs in one basket but you do want a unit that can throw some weight around.  Just maybe not 2 full size combat units.

 

My 1,000 demo list was a Lord, exalted champ, full chosen, small legion, cultist, small oblitz, havocs and a predator with about 40pts  to spare. 
 

At 1,500 you likely want two large squads with supporting characters.

[MasterDeath]

I think it's either a full squad with character or a half squad without. The character buff + stratagem efficiency are just good arguments for going full squad, especially with Lords and their 0 CP stratagems. There may be an argument for things like Master of execution in half squads as fire and forget units, or a Tzeentch character in half squad as CP battery.